[nicksgem10s]

I am not sure of the model Lamm amps that a friend has but they are without a doubt some of the finest sounding amps on the planet.  His other associated equipment is on that same level and it is the most refined sound I have ever heard. 

There are luxury items in many hobbies that only a select few can or choose to afford.  It is about perceived value and hopefully musical enjoyment.

About the pet talk....I feel like I really got a bargain with my 1.5 yr old Chihuahua, unless you figure out price per pound.  Willie is only 6 pounds but his heart is about 5 of the 6 pounds.  He brings more joy to my life than any stereo equipment could. 

Having said that I really enjoy my stereo system and spend a lot, okay, too much of my available funds on it.  I value it and it brings enjoyment to my life.  If it did not I would spend my time and money in another way or pursuit.

I do think people sometimes get caught up in the price of components.  I know I have in the past and learned some lessons through trial and error.  Price does not equal performance.  It is about synergy and listening preferences.  It is really all about the music.   

[Freo-1]

Interesting Thread.

I think that there is no actual right or correct answer. It's about perception vs reality. In the  case of mega dollar amplifiers, it's the perception of the buyer that what they are buying is actually worth the amount they are spending. It's impossible to apply rational judgments to this. Everyone has a different reality when it comes to music reproduction.

One could argue for example, that the actual cost to manufacture a product such as the Sony DA9000ES was more than a 30K Lamm unit. (especially when one actually looks into the technology and research to come up with and manufacture the DA9000ES). Trying to tie manufacturing costs into this is a bit like trying to heard cats.

In my system, I had a Harmon Kardon Citation II restored from top to bottom, with a much beefed up power supply, a more stable bias circuit, the front end changed to use  5687/7044/7119, mil spec parts, etc. The result is simply incredible, providing sound that I would put up against any amplifier within the power class regardless of price (and I have auditioned a LOT of expensive gear over the years).  The cost to achieve this was "cheap as chips" compared to purchasing a mega dollar priced amplifier, which only adds to my happiness with the product.

However, I'm sure the folks who spend the money on their mega dollar amp may not see it the same way.  For them, only the "best" will do, and for many, more dollars equates to better sound and performance (according to their perception).

So, the question remains, who is right?   

The answer is: "depends on one's perception".  aa

[kyrill]

there are economical laws and psychological laws. they are not the same.
law of supply and demand. in short if a good is in demand and the supply is scarce, price goes up. An egg can be traded for a diamond (!) in wartime when "everybody" is starving from hunger as logistic and crops are ruined by tanks.
So (extreme) high prices for goods can be explained that way, high demand and low supplies


In high end audio there is no low supply. Many brands, there are many real good brands  .
now high prices cannot be explained in the above manner

Now psychology comes into play --> other factors play a role not  directly connected to the quality of the product or service.
Now perceived values ( mentioned earlier) play a role. Indirect values, appearance: it looks "arty", the brand is not obscure so "neighbors" recognize that it is expensive,  --> status or the simple belief marketing never lies, so expensiveness   equals quality
And then the "filthy" rich do not consider 30.000 as expensive at all and the salesman grabs the golden opportunity to convince the customer "trust me, i will sell you the best, .."

a nice example is a 1500us $ shirt, made of 100% cotton.. but from a special Italian house..

But these two different laws: economics and psychology cannot be mixed, if mixed it complexes the discussion. they are too apart..

[TheChairGuy]

why the fixation on sky-high amp prices?....seems like there's a lot of prices sky high in every part of the playback chain: source, amplification including preamp's, speakers and wire of various kinds.

If you're to complain about prices - seems all need to be taken into consideration.

Or, just don't buy those brands / items that offend your sensibilities...nobody is reaching into your pocket and forcing you to spend it 

[kyrill]

i read no complaining, but curiosity..

[Occam]

why the fixation on sky-high amp prices?....seems like there's a lot of prices sky high in every part of the playback chain: source, amplification including preamp's, speakers and wire of various kinds....

all in good time, young Paduwan, all in good time.....

[Marbles]

The last few percentages of gain are most always very expensive.

[Freo-1]

why the fixation on sky-high amp prices?....seems like there's a lot of prices sky high in every part of the playback chain: source, amplification including preamp's, speakers and wire of various kinds.

If you're to complain about prices - seems all need to be taken into consideration.

Or, just don't buy those brands / items that offend your sensibilities...nobody is reaching into your pocket and forcing you to spend it 

Well, the thread is about high priced amps. There was another thread about Wilson speakers which more less covered similar ground. 

So, there you go, mate. And yes, the whole bloody playback chain has it's own version of "The Emperor's New Clothes". 

Perhaps a more appropriate thread would be: "What part does each piece play into the overall playback chain", and how should the budget be allocated percentage wise for a given playback system.   

[BrianM]

I am not sure of the model Lamm amps that a friend has but they are without a doubt some of the finest sounding amps on the planet.  His other associated equipment is on that same level and it is the most refined sound I have ever heard.

I.e. the "hidden" cost of buying a $30,000 amplifier.  You apparently need $100,000 worth of associated equipment to get your money's worth out of it.

[95bcwh]

Now this statement need correction, in reality: Psychological laws is a subset of economical laws. So they are not entirely different.

Read this definition of Economics:
****************************************************************************
A definition that captures much of modern economics is that of Lionel Robbins in a 1932 essay: "the science which studies human behaviour as a relationship between ends and scarce means which have alternative uses."
****************************************************************************

Note the words highlighted in red

there are economical laws and psychological laws. they are not the same.

[SET Man]

Hey!

    Well, it may seems overpriced to you but to some it is not. it is worth it? That's another story.... maybe to some.

    As for everything in this material world we live in. The concept of value is in the mind and the wallet size of the beholder

    You should have seem my non-audiophile friends faces when I told them that I paid $450 for my phono cart!

Take care,
Buddy
   

[Rob Babcock]

I think this is a very interesting topic, and certainly it is relative.  Much like a previous poster has said, most of my friends and family think even my comparatively-mind expenditures are silly.  For example, my brother couldn't believe what I spend for a pair of Anti-Cables and Anti-IC's, and you guys know how cheap they are!  A $150 for a pair of cables seems nuts to them, but of course everyone has different priorities.  Anyone into expensive firearms, watches or boats can easily identify.  My spending $15,000 on my gear is widely regarded as ludicrous among most in my social circles, but some spend that in cables.

Sadly I've not had the chance to hear any $30,000 amps, nor is it likely that I will anytime soon.  At first blush it's hard to imagine a $30k amp sounding 10X better than a $3k amp, but I'll allow it could be worth the money for that last bit of performance...if I could afford it.  $3k is about my limit for a single piece of gear, but if I win the Powerball it'll be Nordost all around!

[SET Man]

    You should have seem my non-audiophile friends faces when I told them that I paid $450 for my phono cart!

Take care,
Buddy
   

You're a cheap ass compared to my Symphonic Line RG8 cart (modified VDH Grasshopper)!!! 

Hey!

    Yup, that's me alright... maybe around here. Cheap price wise but not sound wise  aa

    At least I'm a big spender among my circle of friends when it come to audios.

    Talking amps and other audio component. It doesn't matter how expensive they are. If that amp doesn't hit your spot, than you wouldn't buy it even if you can afford it. The problem is when it did hit your spot, but you can't afford it! 

Take care,
Buddy

[Marbles]

    Talking amps and other audio component. It doesn't matter how expensive they are. If that amp doesn't hit your spot, than you wouldn't buy it even if you can afford it. The problem is when it did hit your spot, but you can't afford it! 

Take care,
Buddy

Amen Buddy.   

That's when life truly stinks!

[Freo-1]

    Talking amps and other audio component. It doesn't matter how expensive they are. If that amp doesn't hit your spot, than you wouldn't buy it even if you can afford it. The problem is when it did hit your spot, but you can't afford it! 

Take care,
Buddy

Amen Buddy.   

That's when life truly stinks!

I'll drink to that!!

[tanchiro58]

Having said that I really enjoy my stereo system and spend a lot, okay, too much of my available funds on it.  I value it and it brings enjoyment to my life.  If it did not I would spend my time and money in another way or pursuit.

I do think people sometimes get caught up in the price of components.  I know I have in the past and learned some lessons through trial and error.  Price does not equal performance.  It is about synergy and listening preferences.  It is really all about the music.

Nick,

It is an excellent thought of you. I have the same thought that if I think audio components will give me a joyable moment of life then I spend within my budget (sometimes I had to financially ask my wife's help too). But I have a good feeling after knowing that I got a good choices.

[contrarian]

A better question perhaps - why does mental masturbation feel so good???   

[acresm22]

Many good points here, but at some point it is nothing more than conspicous excess. When  you read that Transparent is making a $20k pair of speaker cables, do you think more or less highly of the company? I tend to think less...because I have a hard time believing that they are really pursuing art and pushing the envelope in design and execution, and are instead following the mantra "if you build it, they will come." And I also think that those buyers who spend $20k on a pair of speakers cables are also culpable. Not to get preachy here, but just because you have the wherewithal to spend $30k on an amp, $70K on speakers and $20k on cables doesn't mean you should. At some point (arguably a point that varies from buyer to buyer), it becomes obscene. Do something worthwhile with that money, something edifying to more than just your ego.

Okay....I realize its a slippery slope 

[Marbles]

So are you telling us how to spend our money????

How do you know what we give to charity etc..?

Thanks for the morality...and what are you doing on this forum?

[acresm22]

Relax Marbles, its just a friendly discussion....