Stunning wire discovery...

Mad DOg · « **Reply #60 on:** 2 Sep 2003, 02:25 am »

Quote from: jackman

Please help me understand why my last post was moved? I don't think the comments warranted moving. Too much moderation can be as bad as too little...or worse. I like you guys and don't want to see the best forum on this site go down the tubes...

Jman,

relax...i like you too...and you're right...that post as well as some others weren't supposed to get moved. i was attempting to split off only the offending posts but clicked on the button that moved everything from the offending post on...i'm still learning about all the functions and features available to the moderators...unfortunately once i've moved something out of the 2 ch forum, i can't undo it and in this case more stuff got moved than i had intended...

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #61 on:** 2 Sep 2003, 11:52 am »

Quote from: Mad DOg

Jman,

relax...i like you too...and you're right...that post as well as some others weren't supposed to get moved. i was attempting to split off only the offending posts but clicked on the button that moved everything from the offending post on...i'm still learning about all the functions and features available to the moderators...unfortunately once i've moved something out of the 2 ch forum, i can't undo it and in this case more stuff got moved than i had intended...

What is offending about this, then?

Quote from: Psychicanimal

Nathan,

We've had this conversation before...

You need to listen to good cables, interconnects power cords and set aside your sarcasm. It only denotes your lack of knowledge.

Regards,

Francisco

Edit: I saw Sean corner Van Alstine at a demo regarding the subject of cables. Sean was sitting next to me and we were in front row so it was very intense. It is absolutlely stupid to match expensive gear with 99 cent interconnects. Period.

Clicks can destroy organizations...

JohnR · « **Reply #62 on:** 2 Sep 2003, 01:22 pm »

Quote from: Mad DOg

that post as well as some others weren't supposed to get moved. i was attempting to split off only the offending posts but clicked on the button that moved everything from the offending post on...

I wouldn't worry about it. For the most part, you might as well use a blunt instrument, I think you'll find that people won't be any more pleased with you for making the effort to be selective, more likely the opposite in fact.

jackman · « **Reply #63 on:** 2 Sep 2003, 02:01 pm »

No worries on my end guys. You have a thankless job that I would not want. Sorry for being pissy! I'm the one who started this whole mess...wait until I get my IC's from Nathanm...Maybe that review should be posted in the Fight Club from the start!

Adios, and no harm no foul!

Jman

nathanm · « **Reply #64 on:** 2 Sep 2003, 10:51 pm »

Doesn't bother me any where anything got moved. It's still there, so...

Just remember this folks: Jackman's system will be the stuff of legend once he gets my cables. Grown men will weep, children will giggle, wives will accept, and there will be a line of people outside his door just begging to hear even 5 notes off the latest Diana Krall disc through these godly cables. I am working day and night to increase the price as well, but it is not easy. I was only able to get them up to $79,000. Even so, they are an excellent value. Electricity was created solely for the future arrival of my interconnect. I just hope Jackman's system will be expensive enough to reveal their majesty.

pjchappy · « **Reply #65 on:** 2 Sep 2003, 11:10 pm »

Nathan,

Are you this bitter, angry, and negative in real life? Just curious.

p

JohnR · « **Reply #66 on:** 2 Sep 2003, 11:32 pm »

Here we go again

pjchappy · « **Reply #67 on:** 2 Sep 2003, 11:56 pm »

I'm not trying to start a fight. . .it just gets old reading similar posts over and over. . .

p

nathanm · « **Reply #68 on:** 3 Sep 2003, 12:45 am »

That's an odd comment coming from someone who owns Monty Python and Mr. Show material. ???

Carlman · « **Reply #69 on:** 3 Sep 2003, 02:19 am »

Quote from: nathanm

Electricity was created solely for the future arrival of my interconnect.

Wow. That was my favorite statement that I've read here in a long time. I think the entire post very accurately closes/summarizes Nathan's point. So, I found the post very clear, consistent with his style, and amusing as well. I didn't detect any bitterness.... just some tasteful satire to end this thread that's gotten beyond itself.

avahifi · « **Reply #70 on:** 3 Sep 2003, 11:23 am »

I am pretty amazed to see that in all the posts regarding wires, parts, and so on, there is not a single clue that anyone here has considered the most important sonic accessory of all, namely their listening room.

Run, don't walk, to your nearest high end wallpaper and paint store and ask for the sample books on acoustical fabric. It goes up like wallpaper, comes in many patterns and colors, and will make your listening room so much better you won't believe it.

The object, of course, is to make your listening room "go away" as it is not supposed to be part of the musical performance at all. All the sound spattering off of your floors and walls is dead wrong, and painfully obvious to me. All the wires and cables in the world won't help this a bit. Well, if you had soft fuzzy wires and you wound them completely around and around the room till the walls were completely covered, that might help.

Any acoustical output or reinforcement from your room is wrong, it was not part of the recorded acoustical enviornment. And you can do something about this inexpensively and usefully. Acoustical fabric, heavy drapes, cork tile, even rough surfaced brick -- anything to kill and reduce room reflections.

The next time you are temped to spend another $500 on wires, spend it on acoustical fabric instead and achieve some real results.

Frank Van Alstine

John B · « **Reply #71 on:** 3 Sep 2003, 03:02 pm »

Quote

The next time you are temped to spend another $500 on wires, spend it on acoustical fabric instead and achieve some real results.

Interesting that you would make a wholesale judgement regarding a large portion of the audiophile community that has found "real" results with high quality cabling, something you haven't yourself personally investigated. And a one time experiment with some Rat Shack wire & Kimber Kables does not qualify in my mind as a thorough investigation of a component class. I've had significant results going from .99 a foot shack wire to Better Cables Silver Serpent speaker wire (which is not that expensive) that remedied a harsh, compressed sounding center speaker sound into a something much more musically pleasing.

Thanks for the info on the acoustical fabric. Now if I can convince the wife to let me experiment on her walls

Carlman · « **Reply #72 on:** 3 Sep 2003, 03:30 pm »

Quote from: avahifi

I am pretty amazed to see that in all the posts regarding wires, parts, and so on, there is not a single clue that anyone here has considered the most important sonic accessory of all, namely their listening room....

This thread isn't about room treatments... However, that topic has been discussed in other very long threads by many AC members. So, please don't make sweeping generalizations and try to take this thread in that direction.

Thanks,
Carl

nathanm · « **Reply #73 on:** 3 Sep 2003, 04:20 pm »

I really really really wanted to stop replying to this damn thread, but I'm just popping in to give the horns to Mr. Van Alstine:

Okay, that's all.

audiojerry · « **Reply #74 on:** 3 Sep 2003, 05:55 pm »

Sorry Nathan, but I'm afraid I've got some time to kill, so the thread continues...

With all due respect to Mr. Van Alstine, I aknowledge that you are a very talented designer - I've heard your gear and it sounds great at a great price - but your comments on room acoustics bother me. Maybe you could clarify, but it sounds to me like the closer you can get your room to an anechoic chamber, the better, which I think is a very bad idea. I believe you can get to a certain point where any more deadening of the acoustics in a room results in a lifeless and dull sounding system.

I think you would acknowledge that acoustical engineers may have a bit more expertise on this subject, and I believe they would concur with my statement.

If I'm wrong about your views, please clarify.

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #75 on:** 3 Sep 2003, 06:25 pm »

Frank: I have told folks at audio circle this over and over again; A few have learned, most have ignored it and will continue to do so.

audiojerry · « **Reply #76 on:** 3 Sep 2003, 06:56 pm »

Quote from: Dan Banquer

Frank: I have told folks at audio circle this over and over again; A few have learned, most have ignored it and will continue to do so.

Does this mean that you also advocate an anechoic chamber as the ideal that we should strive for in our listening room?

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #77 on:** 3 Sep 2003, 07:08 pm »

Jerry: You just don't seem to ever listen to what I have said about this in the past. It's called Live End Dead End. You ignore Brian Cheny of VMPS when he tells you the same thing, and you automatically assume that Frank is talking about an anechoic chamber.
Jerry: I will no longer address your posts because no matter what amount of common sense any of us manage to give you will simply deny it, as you obviously have nothing to learn, because you are receptive to nothing, and give the pretense that you know everything.
If the moderator wants to bring this thread back to Fight Club, That's certainly his perogative, and that's fine with me. I'll be more than happy to address Audiojerry in that forum.

Carlman · « **Reply #78 on:** 3 Sep 2003, 07:16 pm »

This thread isn't about room treatments. This same debate has been done, a lot and recently. Do a search. I think everyone here knows it's an important element in a listening room. Some people have done it and others haven't. No one has to believe me, Frank, Dan, or anyone. So, to start at this point in a thread and say, 'who cares about the wire, what about the room?' is another topic. Feel free to start ANOTHER topic if you'd like.

Using this topic (especially at this point) to start arguments making blanket statements about what 'most people' consider and don't consider in room treatments will get it moved to another area.

P.S. A moderator does not need to move a thread if you want to duke it out in 'Fight Club' on an issue. You have the power!

jackman · « **Reply #79 on:** 3 Sep 2003, 07:18 pm »

Quote

Jerry: You just don't seem to ever listen to what I have said about this in the past. It's called Live End Dead End. You ignore Brian Cheny of VMPS when he tells you the same thing, and you automatically assume that Frank is talking about an anechoic chamber.
Jerry: I will no longer address your posts because no matter what amount of common sense any of us manage to give you will simply deny it, as you obviously have nothing to learn, because you are receptive to nothing, and give the pretense that you know everything.
If the moderator wants to bring this thread back to Fight Club, That's certainly his perogative, and that's fine with me. I'll be more than happy to address Audiojerry in that forum.

Dan,
Why are you so mad at Jerry? I understand that you may be frustrated with his questions or comments, but they don't seem to warrant the adversarial attack you have given. Don't get me wrong, if it was against me, I'd fully understand. I've been known to get into fights with people, but Jerry has always been a nice guy. I also think you are a good guy. Let's try to keep this civil unless we have a good reason not to be civil.

Fight the real enemy>>> PEZ!

Just kidding

,

Jman