When is enough enough? Do you think you have reached it?

TONEPUB · « **on:** 29 Jul 2007, 06:23 am »

I'm just curious if any of you feel that you have finally reached the end of the
line with all of this stuff, or do you think that it will always be an evolutionary
process?

I know I'm darn close to the end of the line. I can't imagine other than swapping
a cable here or there that I could get more of what I want out of my current setup.

(but there is that supposedly amazing Wilson Benesch subwoofer coming in
next month...)

But seriously, how do you guys feel about this aspect of your system?

Zero · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Jul 2007, 06:50 am »

I've only just begun.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Jul 2007, 07:26 am »

I think when you can almost never be distracted from the music by the sound of the system you are close enough, for practical purposes.

A recording engineer on another forum I monitor has as his signature "If you notice the sound, it's wrong".

This is the most concise summing-up I've seen.

JLM · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Jul 2007, 11:03 am »

For many years I've had a "not to exceed" budget in mind for my audio system. As my means increase and my hearing decreases with the years that budget figure has remained.

I'm a "speaker guy" and have definite opinions regarding proper speaker design. Three years ago I commissioned Bob Brines to build the first FTA-2000 speakers (what I consider for all practical purposes the ideal representation of those ideals) and almost 2 years ago moved into a Cardas design based "man cave", so 1/3rd of my system is set for a good long while.

I'm satisfied (and perhaps blissfully ignorant) with my Channel Island Audio passive pre-amp and monoblocks and I'm too old to play or invest much into wiring or isolation devices, so another 1/3rd of my system is in place. (I don't mean to slam Dusty or his stuff, just mean to say that I don't care to look very hard into pre/power amp options in my price range. These pieces fit nicely into my KISS, price, and build quality values.)

I'm staying on the sidelines right now for the last 1/3rd (source, any additional room treatments, and possible EQ) as the technology keeps advancing. My Oppo can replace the next DVD player that dies (we have 2 others).

I know terms like "practical", "ideal", "hearing decreases", and "blissfully ignorant" aren't in the true audiophile lexicon, but to me its a very pleasant past time, not an obsession. I try to balance it against social norms and the needs of others.

zybar · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Jul 2007, 11:32 am »

Quote from: TONEPUB on 29 Jul 2007, 06:23 am

I'm just curious if any of you feel that you have finally reached the end of the
line with all of this stuff, or do you think that it will always be an evolutionary
process?

I know I'm darn close to the end of the line. I can't imagine other than swapping
a cable here or there that I could get more of what I want out of my current setup.

(but there is that supposedly amazing Wilson Benesch subwoofer coming in
next month...)

But seriously, how do you guys feel about this aspect of your system?

I probably reached it already, but was too busy changing gear to notice!!

Actually, what I am hearing now is the best I have had in my house.

I guess the better question is:

What is your goal?

To keep improving your system or getting it to be good enough?

Even if you never increased your budget, technology keeps changing and improving so that you can do better.

For example, look at the tremendous leaps in the digital area over the last few years. You can get a digital front end today for under $1000 that bests former top of the line gear costing 10x or more.

Does that mean that the older gear no sounds "bad"? Of course not...

For me, I stick to a budget and try to make the best system I can.

George

audio-heaven · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Jul 2007, 01:43 pm »

I think it can depend on a what kind of audiophile you are, if you are a person who has a system goal and you are able to reach personal satisfaction by selecting the right gear to get what you want, and then tweak it to get the best out of it then that is always a very good thing as far as amplifires are concerned.
There are some people who wouldn't entertain anything other than aTube amp in there system so for them the right tube amp is the end of the road.
if you are an audiophile with ‘DIY tendencies’ then things change a little, the goal of finding your perfect system is still there but the desire to keep on building new gear doesn't go away and it can become another hobby in itself, once you have built your first amplifier or speaker the satisfaction you get out of having built it yourself is a great feeling especially when it competes with (or beats) the commercial competition for less money.
For some people DIY hi fi holds no interest at all and they would much rather just go and buy something (nothing wrong with that either

)
Because I am an audiophile who enjoys building a bit of DIY gear my system is always evolving. I now have several different amplifiers to choose from ranging from class A, B and D most of which I built myself. (with valve monoblocks on the way aa )
So I guess I will never reach the end of the road because although I am satisfied with my system as it stands it keeps on changing evolving and expanding, in fact I have now built so much stuff I have 2 systems to play with. It does make the whole thing more complicated because I now have a choice of gear to choose from, they all satisfy me in their different ways and it is great fun mixing and matching components.

At the end of the day although I enjoy building some DIY hi fi I do it all for a higher purpose THE LOVE OF MUSIC

The Rolling Stones may have said "I can't get no satisfaction" but I get several different kinds of satisfaction with my collection of home made gear

flintstone · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Jul 2007, 01:51 pm »

When I retired (5 years ago) and built my dedicated room, I became fairly happy with where I was at. Having a large room, with almost no setup restrictions was a big boost up the sound quality ladder.

Most of any changes I make are small (DAC, CDP, ect), I've been in that mode for a while.....5-6 years.

Over the years we pickup extra components, some we hang on to for any number of reasons, these.... I sometimes switch in and out of my systems (s). No good reason, change of pace....something a little different.

Plus...It gives the wife a chance to shake those marbles in her head around

Dave

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Jul 2007, 02:10 pm »

I often have thought so of late, but I almost intuitively know it's just another mirage

John

Marbles · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Jul 2007, 03:10 pm »

I'm (about) done...the limitations I have are caused by the room and not changing equipment. I don't see me changing room's and I like how my system sounds.

Any other changes contemplated would be 1. room related or 2. technology changes (i.e. format upgrades) like Blu-ray player or some other higher def player.

TONEPUB · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Jul 2007, 05:49 pm »

Interesting comments so far!

I would tend to agree with the gist of "If you are enjoying the music and not noticing the system,
then you're there!"

What pains me so much in this industry is that there are so many people trying to have the
"best" amp, preamp, etc. and NOT concentrating on the music. Glad to see we have some
people here that are just enjoying the tunes!!

JoshK · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Jul 2007, 07:51 pm »

I think audio-heaven summed up my thoughts pretty well. When I began the DIY route, it became its own hobby. I am almost always listening to music while working on stuff and then when I'm done, I can swap it into my system to see how that sounds comparitively. So its a hobby that supports my music hobby.

I think we each have our own priorities on what matter to the sound for us. I definitely hear the differences between some statement pieces with big $$ and those budget pieces, but I can't seem to get over the impact that the room and setup has on the sound. For me this is a constant overarching problem and it makes taking a huge $$$ upgrade in components not worthwhile to me. I guess I am firmly in the speaker/room camp even though I'd rather build tube amps then speakers (now anyway). I just think the speaker/room sets the ceiling and its a pretty easy ceiling to hit for most of us...after that components just sound different from one another.

There are things that some components can do that are complementary to the speaker/room ceiling, but that just isn't enough incentive to me to spend too much effort. I have huge lofty goals in setup with the room in mind but not enough time to impliment them until the home renovations are done, so I just play with component building.

nicksgem10s · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Jul 2007, 06:39 pm »

I have bought and sold enough gear to realize sometimes less is more. I have also had the opportunity to hear many different systems ranging from all tubes and strictly vinyl to class d & computer based digital. I know that I am no longer chasing "the absolute sound" so to speak. I have learned a lot about my taste in audio and what I enjoy.

At the end of the day it was the music that attracted me to better equipment. Somewhere along the way I did lose sight of the music to chase equipment and to analyze how each piece of equipment sounded

I became wrapped up in components and was spending so much more time on my system than on the music I enjoy.

I have gotten back to the music

and am constantly finding new wonderful artists and broadening my horizons as far as different types of music.

My system has reached the point where things aren't going to get much better. Certain equipment will sound different but maybe not better. There was a long time where I didn't understand that. Today I completely understand it.

There will always be a latest and greatest and a new mark III, IV, V, etc for equipment. I am not going to say that I will not be interested but I now realize that everytime I read a review my existing system is not broken or lacking.

I have made many friends through this audio hobby that have helped me learn these lessons. I am grateful for each and every single one of them and all of you fellow AC members.

Whitese · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Jul 2007, 06:45 pm »

Well, my problem is that I am not necessarily looking for the best absolute sound. I just love trying different gear. In the last few years I have sold gear that most people would never part with...Some gear is just cool to try and I like special under the radar stuff most of the time.

But yes, I am kind of getting tired of all the buying/selling...I wish i could just relax with some good tubes and my incoming Tannoy HPD385's.....but i am a restless soul.

Jim N. · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Jul 2007, 07:01 pm »

I am pretty much done. I am putting off going to Extreme Monos until I get a real itch to do something with my system. Computer based audio somewhere down the line. Prior to the past two years, when I was building my current system, I had an NAD amp for 6 years and then an Adcom for 12 years driving M&K speakers that I bought in 1986. You can see that I really like to churn gear. Now that I finally have "high end" dollars to spend I went bang for the buck. I can't tell you how many times I used to go to a local high end shop and nearly drool on the McIntosh gear.

Going to audio shows (HE2006, RMAF) helped me understand that "different" and "better" are not the same thing. All audio systems are flawed. It comes down to which flaws you can live with. People like to say "trust your ears". Well, I trust my brain but only so far. I try to make sure that I am not wanting to hear something to justify getting a new toy. I try to understand what I like about a component to ensure that it is better and not just a different set of flaws since people quite often over react to the absence of something they found annoying with their system (that old relationship between familiarity and contempt).

I just enjoy my music. Audio Nirvana and absolute/perfect sound are right next to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 Jul 2007, 08:04 pm »

I'd say I'm done for the time being, but I doubt I'll ever be totally out. Even minor changes count as changes for me.

jrtrent · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 Jul 2007, 08:08 pm »

I reached a point of musical satisfaction down the line I traveled, to the point where further refinement was unnecessary for me. My direction was that of musical involvement through tunefulness, dynamics, and rhythmic drive, and my system was basically all Linn (LP12/Ittok/LK1/LK2/Saras). Not liking to fiddle with stuff, the only "tweak" to the system has been in the form of a Neuance support shelf to replace the original in my Sound Organisation table. Change, however, is being prompted by aging components (mostly over 20 years old, now, the LK1 is currently shelved due to a control board fault) and perhaps the influence of middle-aged crazies (I've started wondering if soundstaging and image localization might be nice . . .).

Bigfish · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Jul 2007, 08:42 pm »

This topic kinda hits home for me because I sent a PM to guy last night pretty much asking him the same question. Members of this Circle have given me very sound advice (no pun intended) in helping me compile a very musical 2 channel system. When I complete the purchase of 3 PCs and an Ultimate Power Supply I will have this system to 95%+ of its capability. To milk the final 5% out of this system might be thrills and giggles for some but we are talking huge dollars this ole boy ain't going to spend!

I am learning that this hobby is about building your system and then adding something new to it to learn if you can hear a difference. It is not about your system sounding good, it is all about "can I make it sound better?" Most of the people I know have a hobby or hobbies. For many of the members of this Circle this is a sincere hobby to which they are extremely dedicated. I came with an objective to build a good system and the objective is nearing completion. I am absolutely hooked on this Circle and have made some friends here. I honestly do not know if I can pull the plug when the PCs and Ultimate Power Supply are obtained (which are a few months from occurring) but I think it will be a wise financial move.

Ken

nathanm · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Jul 2007, 09:50 pm »

There are still some speaker types I want to try out, (i.e. more beamy ones) but I probably won't be able to better my equipment until I get a new room. Sufficient SPLs will make all my sonic anxieties go away I've found, although I fear that once I am in that new paradigm of guilt-free listening I may become more critical of the sound. I really hope that doesn't happen, though.

weirdo · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Aug 2007, 05:27 pm »

Unfortunately, I have not reached it.

Ditto on needing a dedicated Audio room, also, there are some speakers I would like to try like full size stats. Also, I would like to have a powerful tube system at some time, with Audio Research gear.

Also, my musical tastes are continuing to evolve with my desire for different equipment. Combine that with diminishing hearing as a function of age (53) and the conclusion is, forget your legacy to the kids, get good gear now! Thanks for this post. It has focused me.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Aug 2007, 06:17 pm »

This is a very interesting topic as I deal with it on a daily basis. Right now I would rather post my comments as a "normal person" (

like there is any such animal

) rather than a dealer.

I don't thing there is any such thing as 'having reached it' just as there is no such thing as the perfect system. There are always differences that us humans have to experience and we are not happy unless we can say "been there, done that". For most of us, this is a hobby and hobbies cannot become stagnet. A stamp collector does not stop collecting stamps. A new technology comes out and our little ears perk up and eyes widen

With computer based sources coming on strong, we are curious about this infant technology. Tubes have been around for ever but we still continue to experiment.

Also, it's NOT always about the music. In many situations, the music is simply a tool, obviously the most important tool, we use in our venture of audio experimentation.

There is always curiosity that will keep us going whether or not we feel we already have the very best (to our ears).

It boils down to the type of person you are. For many, we will NEVER be done while there may be others that are content and need not look any further. Of course, you won't find any of those types around Audio Circle