[doug s.]

almost any arm you want can easily be retro-fitted to the unsuspended empires, as the arm mounts directly to the metal chassis.  i had an early empire; it was good w/the vintage wood grado arm it came with; it was incredibly good w/the funky rs-labs rs-a1 tonearm.  (see pic below.)  i only sold that arm (traded it for an o-l silver taper, actually), because it didn't lend itself to being used w/an end-of-play auto-lift device, & i refuse to have a deck w/o one.



the suspended empires have the tonearm mounted on a subchassis arm, whose hole is quite small in diameter, & needs drilling out, to accept most (but not all?) modern arms.  i have a rare 498 & an o-l rb250 that i wanna mount on it, but i need to get the subchassis over to a local machine shop to have them hog out the hole.  the motorcycle shop that's presently working on my buell is about a 5 minute walk, i think i need to give them this work as well...   aa  i really wanna try this out.

you can see the underside of a suspended 598 deck here (also f/a on ebay); it looks a little different than my 498, but it's a similar situation - you would need to bore out the tonearm mounting hole to mount most modern arms...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Empire-598-II-Troubador-Turntable_W0QQitemZ190122857887


doug s.

The Empire tables are gorgeous. I've seen one in person, and they're quite impressive.

What are some drop-in arms that fit these tables?

[Psychicanimal]

Did crazyface ever buy a TT?

I think he just bought an iPod. 

But seriously, all nonsense aside, I think he should concentrate on getting a solid, no-nonsense setup (a '1200, or any other good table, plus maybe a vintage receiver/integrated amp) that will last him through college and leave plenty of money for records. Can be done for $600 or so, maybe a little more. Speaking as someone who was in college not all that long ago, any equipment you have WILL get bumped into, fiddled with, etc...I wouldn't dream of using a cart without a user-replaceable stylus.  As another plus, he'll have a setup that nobody else will have, and it'll sound better too. 

My goodness, leave the kid alone!

Let him keep money for some sinse & white wine for him and the college girls.  Shit.

***

[TheChairGuy]

Our newbie is dead - we killed him with audio-phool kindness 

Long live the newbie crazyface - long may he enjoy his ipod 

This thing is 12 pages now...he probably checked out by page 5.

[woodsyi]

Our newbie is dead - we killed him with audio-phool kindness 

Long live the newbie crazyface - long may he enjoy his ipod 

This thing is 12 pages now...he probably checked out by page 5.

He was still in and interested in mix-matching my offer and Kabusa TT even after 10 pages.  It's probably better for him to keep the money and just get a party boombox.  Being a dedicated audiophile is not conducive to picking up girls, you know.    That's why I didn't get started with audio until I got married and settled down. 

[tanchiro58]

I had a VPI Aries before. It was good. But now I heard VPI Scout Master is a better one. Good luck.

[lazydays]

Crazyface has to save up some funds. I believe the time frame was 1-2 months. The last I saw, Crazyface was going for a 1200.

all he needs to do is start looking in pawn shops as they are full of them around here.
I noticed this when I was looking for medium format camera gear awhile back.
gary

[richidoo]

all he needs to do is start looking in pawn shops as they are full of [SL1200] around here.
I noticed this when I was looking for medium format camera gear awhile back.
gary

Awesome idea Gary. Pawnshop is the graveyard of broken music biz dreams!!   Thanks
Rich

[eric the red]

Somebody grab this Thorens. New dustcover plus the arm lift (Thornes Q-Lift=rare) sold by a reputable dealer
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1187657336

[eric the red]

Somebody grab this Thorens. New dustcover plus the arm lift (Thornes Q-Lift=rare) sold by a reputable dealer
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1187657336

The TD166 MK II is not considered one of the finer Thorens tables. If an auto-lift is desired, a TD147 is a much better choice. It's essentially a TD160 Super with auto-lift.

Actually the arm lift on that Thorens is a Thorens Q-Lift which is a simple spring loaded device that lifts the arm at the end of the LP. I have one stuck to the plinth of my P3 and it works great.

[doug s.]

Actually the arm lift on that Thorens is a Thorens Q-Lift which is a simple spring loaded device that lifts the arm at the end of the LP. I have one stuck to the plinth of my P3 and it works great.

i used to use a q-up - these things work great.  i bought it new ~25 years ago; they now sell for a small fortune on ebay.  here's a pic of it in use on my oracle a few years back, before it got some upgraded:



i still have the q-up, but i bought another old wintage auto-lifter on ebay a coupla years ago, & i am now using it.  it works well also, i don't remember the original mfr - sme, perhaps?  it's barely wisible in the pic showing my new arm on the oracle.  when the arm hits the trigger wire (you can yust barely see the li'l yellow ball at its end), it releases an arm which raises tonearm off the record.



these devices are excellent, & i wouldn't wanna be w/o 'em...

doug s.

[eric the red]

I'm kind of curious why Thorens quit making them. The Q-Up (correct term doug  ) works perfectly on Rega arms and their are a zillion Rega TTs out there begging for a simple inexpensive device like it.

[crazyface]

Hey, sorry for not replying for a while!

I would never buy an iPod.   

I need to ask woodpsyi and kabusa all sorts of questions to figure out how to piece this thing together, but I feel kind of silly bothering them about it when I won't have enough money for the purchase until August.   

Anyway, yeah, the $2,000+ just isn't realistic for me.  I'm hoping to spend no more than $1k if I can help it.  I don't know if that excludes buying much of anything from woodpsyi, which makes me feel like a jerk since I did make that initial offer.     But at the very least I'd be glad to buy a mess of records from him and pay him for shipping, supplies, the records' worth, his trouble in packing and such, etc.    Luckily my receiver has a phono input - I'm sure it's not very good, but it will last me at least until I've more money available for such an upgrade.  I still don't know what the availability of fine-line cartridge/styli is for the 1200, but that's the kind I want.  What's "adjustable VAT"?  Why does that lessen record wear?

Also, if I got the 1200 with 78rpm mod, would I be able to play most shellac/vinyl from the 1920's-1940's?

[crazyface]

Do 78RPM cartridges/styli come in "fine line" variety, or is this impossible due to the wide grooves of the record?  If there are no fine line for 78RPM, what's the least-damaging kind of tip to use for them?  Thanks!!!

[Toka]

Do 78RPM cartridges/styli come in "fine line" variety, or is this impossible due to the wide grooves of the record?  If there are no fine line for 78RPM, what's the least-damaging kind of tip to use for them?  Thanks!!!

Nope...a wider stylus is necessary. A fine-line stylus would shred an older record! Typically a conical stylus is used for 78's. The various custom Ortofon carts from KAB might be a good choice if you are planning on playing many different types of vinyl, as they are very simple to swap out and don't require much fiddling with alignment. Check out the ProS40 (fine line), ProS78, and ProS-1M. The top line phono preamp that KAB sells would do wonders for older vinyl as well, as you can select from various EQ's...older records didn't use the RIAA curve. And the pitch adjustment of the '1200 would help with 78's, as they all aren't 'exactly' 78RPM.

[crazyface]

So for mono records I need a ProS-1M ?  Aren't most mono records 78rpm?

Thanks!

also i was reading on KABUSA and saw this:
"Moving Coil: A moving coil design features an electrical coil wound directly on the end of the stylus cantilever. this is immersed in a strong magnetic field. Unlike all the other technologies, the moving coil stylus is a permanent part of the cartridge and is not replaceable."

does that mean that after 500 h ours playing with a MC cartridge I have to buy a whole new one?

[Toka]

So for mono records I need a ProS-1M ?  Aren't most mono records 78rpm?

If you wanted an Ortofon for mono, that would probably be the best choice...there are others from KAB (for Ortofon), and also a host of other mono choices...Grado has one as well (they also make a 78 cart, as does Shure). There are plenty of mono records that aren't 78RPM, especially many from popular artists in the 1960's...The Beatles, The Doors, many more...full length 33RPM discs. Mono records and 78's have different groove sizes, though a 78 would have mono output.

EDIT to add: You cannot replace the stylus on an MC cart yourself (can't think of any off-hand, at least). You either have to buy a whole new one, or send it off to be 're-tipped'. For the latter, I would only ever do that if it involved sending it to the factory, as I have seen the 'work' done by some dealers (on very, very expensive carts) that was shockingly bad (think hot glue). That drawback, along with some others, is why I mostly favor MM carts for regular use.

[TheChairGuy]

also i was reading on KABUSA and saw this:
"Moving Coil: A moving coil design features an electrical coil wound directly on the end of the stylus cantilever. this is immersed in a strong magnetic field. Unlike all the other technologies, the moving coil stylus is a permanent part of the cartridge and is not replaceable."

does that mean that after 500 hours playing with a MC cartridge I have to buy a whole new one?

Probably closer to 1000 hours if you are careful with it, but, yup - you'll need a brand new one or one needs to be re-tipped (oftentimes at over 50% of the cost of the original to begin with).  There really are many good (less expensive, and with removable/replaceable 'needles') moving magnet choices out there tho, that won't set you back as much financially.

I figure I listen to 1500 hours of vinyl yearly, btw 

[lazydays]

So for mono records I need a ProS-1M ?  Aren't most mono records 78rpm?

Thanks!

also i was reading on KABUSA and saw this:
"Moving Coil: A moving coil design features an electrical coil wound directly on the end of the stylus cantilever. this is immersed in a strong magnetic field. Unlike all the other technologies, the moving coil stylus is a permanent part of the cartridge and is not replaceable."

does that mean that after 500 h ours playing with a MC cartridge I have to buy a whole new one?

I'm in the process of revamping my Final Tool to use two tone arms (this has became quite a project). Anyway I plan on using one arm for my mono jazz and classical recordings. It will use a Grado mono cartridge and an Origin tone arm. The other will be a modded SME IV with another Grado. But I might go with a MC on the SME instead.
I just have to figure out what gain I'll need, and if I need a step up transformer. As for 500 hours of playing time; I'd be thinking more like a thousand hours.
gary

[Nels Ferre]

So for mono records I need a ProS-1M ?  Aren't most mono records 78rpm?

Thanks!

also i was reading on KABUSA and saw this:
"Moving Coil: A moving coil design features an electrical coil wound directly on the end of the stylus cantilever. this is immersed in a strong magnetic field. Unlike all the other technologies, the moving coil stylus is a permanent part of the cartridge and is not replaceable."

does that mean that after 500 h ours playing with a MC cartridge I have to buy a whole new one?

The other possibility with a MC cartridge is to send it out to a company that specializes in rebuilding/upgrading the cartridge.  My Dynavector is going to this company:

www.sound-smith.com

Depending on the cartridge you have, it may be less expensive to do this than the traditional "trade it in" or "return to the factory for retip" routine.  Also, you may be able to pick up a damaged cartridge on Ebay cheap, and have it rebuilt, ending up with a killer cartridge at a very low investment.

[BobRex]

does that mean that after 500 h ours playing with a MC cartridge I have to buy a whole new one?

No, you should be able to get up to 3000 hours out of a good MC.  In actuality, as long as everything is properly aligned, the suspension will probably crap out before the diamond wear is an issue.  If you play 3 hours a day, every day, it would take 3 years before the cart would "wear out".  And honestly, I think the 3000 hour limit is conservative.