[doug s.]

hi steven,

your post is good, except i believe you have an irrational bias against direct drive turntables.  1st of all, a technics sl1200 will outperform virtually *any* belt driven turntable presently being manufactured at anywhere near its price.  secondly, all hi-end turntables presently manufactured are *not* belt driven, tho most of them certainly are.  a few are direct-drive, & they are *wery* expensive.  "<set rant off>"   

i, personally, am biased against rim-drive decks, because of the dual 1229 turntable, my 1st real turntable i ever owned.  what a p.o.s. that thing was.  it *never* held speed stability, even when brand-new.  but, because of those who swear by the old vintage garrards & spend big bucks on them, & because of the recent lenco craze, where some folks have unloaded seriously expensive belt-driven models after tweeking their lenco's, & because teres audio is now offering a rim-drive kit as an *UPGRADE* to its older belt-driven offerings, (its present totl deck is direct drive), i am now a bit more open minded about the possibility of trying a rim-drive turntable.

doug s.

[TheChairGuy]

As is very often the case, a very clear and concise overview of turntable drive systems can be found on KABUSA's site.....

http://www.kabusa.com/ttdrive.htm

I have not tried Rim drive myself (but have heard that it is a relic of monophonic age where rumble figures were generally not important in playback), but I have found that the Direct Drive, FG Servo systems make the most of vinyl, followed by Belt Drive tables with AC Synchronous motors (all VPI's, and even the wonderfully cheap old BIC 900-series from the 70/80's).

I bought a BIC 940 from Fleabay recently ($40 with shipping) and it plays well.  It has a 300rpm motor, something VPI has only more recently offered.

As long as the tonearm is functionally good, the cartridge is matched for weight and compliancy, and the table is physically well isolated...these tables keep the best time.  Both types generally benefit from line conditioning (or, indeed, sine wave re-generation), fluid damping, heavy/inert platters and other matters.  But once you have the drive system right...the rest is gravy 

I think by now our newbie, crazyface, is about to blow his brains out 

[WGH]

Taking the practical point of view, a Technics SL1200 or similar type of table that is built like a tank would probably last through 4 (or more) years of college life without skipping a beat. It can be set up anywhere without worrying about feedback or vibrations, no belts to wear out, and you can even let your friends use it.

[eric the red]

Buy something like a used Rega P3 and a gently used Denon/Benz/Dynavector cartridge and a well regarded phono stage like a Rega Fono, Bellari or Graham Slee off of Audiogon. That way if you decide vinyl isn't for you, you won't lose your shorts when you sell plus you'll have a pretty nice vinyl rig if you DO decide that the dark side is your thing. I think you'll be absolutely hooked once you hear a decent vinyl set up.

[TheChairGuy]

Guys - I think we killed the newbie with TMI 

This is his first turntable...and he's going off to college.  I think most of us are shooting too high for the poor fella'.

[eric the red]

 

[slbender]

Hi ChairGuy

Hmmm. More like 9 wpm. That post took me over three hours... to write.


-Steven

 

Steven,

I hope you type 90 wpm - informative post 

But, you mighta' killed the newbie with TMI (ha) 

[eric the red]

Or just buy this MMF-5
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1187225001

[doug s.]

hi tvad,

forget resale walue a minute & yust consider actual use - would you trade your set-up for the p25 on agon?  i wouldn't... 

doug s.

This is a pretty good opportunity for a Rega P25 with Benz Micro Ace:
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1187214586

Kinda stinks that it does not have the original box. What kind of knucklehead tosses a turntable box?

FWIW, I spent about the same on a brand new SL1200 MK II with KAB fluid damper and tonearm rewire upgrades, and a Benz Micro Ace cart.

[lazydays]

hi tvad,

forget resale walue a minute & yust consider actual use - would you trade your set-up for the p25 on agon?  i wouldn't... 

doug s.

Well, I am satisfied with my KAB SL1200 MK II, so my initial and qualified answer is no. However, I have never heard a P25, so there's always the possibility that I might prefer the Rega.

The bottom line for me at this point is that I have no desire to experiment further with turntables/cartridges.

well I've owned two Techniqes direct drives as well as a JVC in the past. Have a MH#5 and an Acoustic Signature Final Tool. The tone arm on the #5 leaves something to be desired, but once it up and running you've got a winner. It will smoke all three of those direct drives I've had plus a couple other low end TT's (Dual and JVC) that I've also owned. For me the Final Tool is the last TT I'll ever buy unless I can steal a Sota Nova.
Right now I'm putting all the pieces together for a Van Duhall modded SME IV tone arm.
I may even go so far as to add a second tone arm for nothing but mono LP's thanks to the folks at AVA for building me a twin input phono stage.
gary

[eric the red]

My TT can beat up your TT

[eric the red]

My TT can beat up your TT

 

[mcrespo71]

My TT can beat up your TT

BEST POST OF THE THREAD!

[SET Man]

My TT can beat up your TT

BEST POST OF THE THREAD!

Hey!

  Totally agreed!

   Too bad they don't live close to each other otherwise I think we would have a TT shoot out between the two.

Take care,
Buddy

[Psychicanimal]

Hey, some people like sluggish, bloated sound--what I call 'analog' sound.

[doug s.]

hi francisco,

so, you think this is what your kabusa sl1200 gives you - sluggish bloated sound?  not a good selling point, imo.     i don't like sluggish bloated sound - & you won't get it w/good analog.  quick well-defined sound - without etch or glare - that's what good analog is about, imo..

Hey, some people like sluggish, bloated sound--what I call 'analog' sound.

[eric the red]

Did crazyface ever buy a TT?

[Nels Ferre]

Crazyface has to save up some funds. I believe the time frame was 1-2 months. The last I saw, Crazyface was going for a 1200.

[doug s.]

if someone wants an excellent belt-driven deck, & doesn't wanna spend $1500+ on a used one, or even more on a new one, (which, imo, is how much you will need to spend to get this level of sound quality), i would strongly recommend one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140128863457


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320125632556


no accounting for pricing, the newer one usually sells for more, & the older one, less.  the older one is easier to mount a different arm to, making it potentially the better turntable, if you have a well-isolated shelf - it has no suspension, but it has a heavier platter...  (the extremely rare 498 has the suspension of the later models, & the platter of the earlier models, but it's still more difficult to upgrade the arm, like the later models.)

one of these, w/a better arm, properly set up, is a viable cost effective alternative to the sl1200, imo...

doug s.

[Toka]

Did crazyface ever buy a TT?

I think he just bought an iPod. 

But seriously, all nonsense aside, I think he should concentrate on getting a solid, no-nonsense setup (a '1200, or any other good table, plus maybe a vintage receiver/integrated amp) that will last him through college and leave plenty of money for records. Can be done for $600 or so, maybe a little more. Speaking as someone who was in college not all that long ago, any equipment you have WILL get bumped into, fiddled with, etc...I wouldn't dream of using a cart without a user-replaceable stylus.  As another plus, he'll have a setup that nobody else will have, and it'll sound better too.