[Jonathan]

Greetings,
I have a new Unico integrated that I'm very pleased with except for the sound of the on-board phono section, which sounded decent until I directly compared it to the sound of my CD player (Pioneer PD-65) and SACD player (Sony NS500V).  When I play LPs, I hear lots of mids and highs, and there's plenty of gain. In fact, my well recorded LPs sound more open and less compressed overall than do my CDs. Where the turntable (NAD 533 with a Sumiko Blue Point cartridge)  loses out (big time) is in the area of warmth and bottom end.  There's just no air being moved down there at all. I don't really know if this leanness is indicative of the sound of the phono stage, the cartridge, or the turntable (or possibly a combination of all three?), but my LPs are so much 'cooler' sounding than my digital sources that I don't feel inspired to listen to records at all.  

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks,

Jon

[JoshK]

It could be a lot of things but my first guess is that you haven't setup your arm correctly.  Carts are very sensitive to VTA, tracking force, etc.  You probably don't have enough tracking force or your VTA isn't lined up correctly.  This would produce that result.

[Beezer]

I would check to make sure the VTA is correct.  It sounds like it needs to be more "tail down", i.e. the pivot end of the tonearm lowered.  

Another possibility is break-in of the cartridge.  Most cartridges start out a bit thin sounding and fill out over 20-50 hours.  

There shouldn't be any matching problems between the cartridge and phono.

Good luck,
Beez

[Jonathan]

The setup for the 533 'table is pretty basic and straighforward: turn the counterweight so the arm is floating, and then dial the weight forward one full turn per gram. Set the anti skate to the same number, and off you go.

I know there is not an adjustment to change the VTA, so I'm not sure what good it's going to do me if it turns out to be set wrong (and is there any way to check the VTA)?  Also, does anyone know of a good turntable guru in the NE Ohio area? Maybe I could take it in and have it looked at.  Thanks,

Jon

[jackman]

I know some tables (with Rega arms) do not have VTA adjustment capabilities.  You can get a VTA adjuster from after-market companies like expressmatching.  They also sell cool oversized counterweights that help out in the bass department.  I have been doing some comparisons between albums and CD's and haven't found bass to be an issue, although some albums have less bass than CD's and vice versa.  One that comes to mind is the first Sting album.  I play that thing on my TT and can't believe how poor the bass is.  I don't remember the CD having the same problem but have no way to verify at the moment because I tossed the CD or lost it a long time ago.

j

[BikeWNC]

When I changed the cart. on my old TT the VTA became a problem.  I was unable to adjust the tonearm at the pivot low enough to achieve the angle needed.  My solution was to purchase a new mat that had a bit more thickness.  Before I bought the mat I tested whether it would make a difference by stacking old lps until the angle needed was reached.  I heard less sibilance and better overall balance and weight.  

Andy

[Tonto Yoder]

There's a thread on audio asylum (with pics) about a DIY Spotmat using an old record and felt (or cork?) circles. Might be worth a try.

The Audioquest Sorbothane mat gives big bass (some say with corresponding losses elsewhere) though the $90 price would be prohibitive.
A guy was selling raw Sorbothane on eBay for $8 a 12 X 12 sheet if you thought you could cut your own.

[Tonto Yoder]

I know there is not an adjustment to change the VTA, so I'm not sure what good it's going to do me if it turns out to be set wrong (and is there any way to check the VTA)?  Also, does anyone know of a good turntable guru in the NE Ohio area? Maybe I could take it in and have it looked at.  Thanks,

Jon

The arm on a NAD IS a Rega, isn't it???? (That would explain its non-adjustable VTA).  Wonder if Play It Again Sam in Lakewood does vinyl??
http://www.playitagainsam.com/

[Tonto Yoder]

Jonathan,
I believe you have the internal phono jumpers wrong---the Blue Point is a moving coil cartridge, but its high output means it's intended for the MM setting. Using the MC setting on the Unico (or ANY gear) would explain "plenty of gain" but might explain why you're unhappy with the sound.  Switching the jumpers MAY have seemed a good change at first since the increased volume and detail would seem "better," but  I think
the MM setting is actually correct. (Please note: this is an educated guess since I have no hands-on exp. with either the Unison or Sumiko.)

[michael w]

TY is spot on about the Sumiko Blue Point.

It is a high output (2.5mV) design that is intended to be used in MM phono stages with a 47KOhm load.

Running it into a high gain MC stage is likely to lead to overload and distortion.


cheerio

[Upstateaudio]

Greetings,
I have a new Unico integrated that I'm very pleased with except for the sound of the on-board phono section, which sounded decent until I directly compared it to the sound of my CD player (Pioneer PD-65) and SACD player (Sony NS500V).  When I play LPs, I hear lots of mids and highs, and there's plenty of gain. In fact, my well recorded LPs sound more open and less compressed overall than do my CDs. Where the turntable (NAD 533 with a Sumiko Blue Point cartridge)  loses out (big time) is i ...

I concur with everybody else.  Check your VTA.  The Blupoint is known for its wooly bass.

[Tonto Yoder]

A quick search in the Vinyl Asylum archives suggests that some are using shims with the NAD/ Rega arms when using a Sumiko Blue Point. That means they're adjusting VTA in the opposite direction from what has been suggested (i.e. "tail down" to increase bass).   Now that Upstate has mentioned it, the Sumiko was often described as having "wooly bass" (that exact term was often used); adding shims to the arm base to give a parallel or "tail up"  VTA would make sense to tame the wooliness of the bass with that particular cart.


Wild conjecture---if you bought the TT second-hand, could earlier owner have over-shimmed the arm?????

[Beezer]

The "shims" are basically thin (1-2mm) metal washers that are placed at the base of the tower.  I had a Planar 3 at one point and needed them to get the correct VTA for a Dynavector 10X4.  If you bought the table with the arm already mounted, it's possible they are there.  

How many hours have had the cartridge playing?  Break-in could also be the issue - it was with my Dynavector.

Beez

[Jonathan]

I know that the BP is a high output cartridge, but in MM mode the sound lacks dynamics, is lifeless, dull, and overly compressed sounding (in fact, it reminded me of the Radio Shack 'little rat' I used for a short amount of time--not good).  The MC position is definitely better sounding (in spite of lacking in bottom end).

 That being said, your comments have me thinking about the +10dB boost switch that I have engaged. I am going to put this back to the off position to see what happens.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.  Feel free to continue the dialogue...

Jon

[Jonathan]

To clarify, the TT was purchased new about 5years ago, so no mods have been done to it, and the cartridge should be well broken in by now.

The truth is, you guys now have me confused about raising or lowering the arm to adjust VTA.  I thought the point was to lower the back end to increase bass response.  Now this 'wooliness' issue comes up and it sounds as if raising the back end is recommended. This seems counterintuitive to me.   Thanks.

Jon

[Tonto Yoder]

Jonathan,
the whole situation seems confusing. You're right that "tail down" VTA gives more bass and that would be the right diagnosis for someone with the complaint of weak bottom end. One just wouldn't expect that complaint from a BP owner.

[michael w]

What's this about a 10dB boost switch ?

 

[Jonathan]

What's this about a 10dB boost switch ?

 

Michael,

The manual (pg. 7)  lists them as JP102 and JP103; one is marked JP102,  but I don't think either is marked JP103 (and, of course, I can't remember what the number is).  They're not hard to find. Just look for the jumpers on the phono card that are marked  +10dB.

By the way, after listening to others' suggestions about what setting to use with my Blue Point, I did some experimenting and found that the best sound comes from keeping the jumpers in the MM position, but switching in the 10dB boost (thanks for the help, guys).  I still say the sound is a bit bass shy, though, so I'm going to keep working on that.

Let me know if you have problems finding those jumpers.

Jon

[Tonto Yoder]

What's this about a 10dB boost switch ?

 

Michael,
I don't have hands-on experience with the Unico, but here's info from the  6moons review:
"The optional phono board replaces the standard AUX input and offers gain provisions for both MM (50-60dB) and MC (40-50dB) via clearly marked jumpers. +/- 10dB gain fine-tuning is possible by changing links JP102/10 on the board. MC input impedance is 100Ohm @ 440pF, the equivalent MM values are 47kOhm @ 220pf. RIAA equalization is compound passive/active, tolerance said to be within +/- 0.1dB."
Looks like the "fine-tuning" feature offers 10dB cut as well as boost. (Seems like the gain specs should be reversed though--the low output MC would need the 60dB gain rather than an MM).

Seems like the Blue Point would prefer to see the 47k Ohm load of the MM setting irrespective of how much gain the MM setting provides.

[Jonathan]

I do think the MM setting seems to be best for the Blue Point, but, again, without the 10dB boost, it sounds pretty lifeless.