Room is getting pretty close to done now......new pics

zybar · « **Reply #40 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 03:10 pm »

Quote from: arthurs on 27 Feb 2007, 02:54 pm

Thanks Tom, will definitely do.

George, are they directly behind you?

Yes.

I am lined up in the middle of the one directly in front of me.

I am lined up in the middle of the two behind me.

George

arthurs · « **Reply #41 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 03:16 pm »

I guess my concern is unless I put them behind the couch in the alcove, they would only be 2-3' behind me, and then sitting in front of the couch. I'll have to talk to Ethan and see what he thinks.

AB · « **Reply #42 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 03:32 pm »

If I am remembering correctly, and I may not be, Ethan was of the opinion that absorption is better than diffusion when the wall/boundary is fairly close to your listening position - i.e. diffusion needs "room" to diffuse.

zybar · « **Reply #43 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 04:20 pm »

Quote from: AB on 27 Feb 2007, 03:32 pm

If I am remembering correctly, and I may not be, Ethan was of the opinion that absorption is better than diffusion when the wall/boundary is fairly close to your listening position - i.e. diffusion needs "room" to diffuse.

Ethan will need to chime in, but I will say that he has two versions of the Diffusor:

- One when you are greater than 6' away from the Diffusor
- One when you are less than 6' away from the Diffusor

George

Ethan Winer · « **Reply #44 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 04:50 pm »

Guys,

Quote from: zybar on 27 Feb 2007, 04:20 pm

Ethan will need to chime in, but I will say that he has two versions of the Diffusor:

- One when you are greater than 6' away from the Diffusor
- One when you are less than 6' away from the Diffusor

Yes, we offer diffusors in two styles, Near and far, as George explained. In my experiments so far I've found diffusion most useful behind the listening position. My home studio is very large (34 feet front to back), and I've had three Far diffusors side by side on stands about 10 feet behind me for the past month while I've worked on my current music project. Since the room is so large I don't really need diffusion there, and this is really just an ongoing test.

I didn't try it in the front of either of my rooms, as George has, because there's no place for them there. In the living room my large RPTV is up against the front wall, and in my home recording studio there's a big window in the middle and bass traps are everywhere else on the wall.

Diffusion can be useful in many places in a room, though my tests at the first reflection points were not positive. One of the first things I tried was replacing the RFZ panels at the side wall reflection points in my living room. My wife and I both noticed immediately that imaging and clarity were made worse compared to having absorption there. Now, the side wall panels are a little less than six feet away, and I used our Far diffusors. But I suspect Near diffusors would not be as good as absorption there either.

--Ethan

TomS · « **Reply #45 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 05:04 pm »

Quote from: AB on 27 Feb 2007, 03:32 pm

If I am remembering correctly, and I may not be, Ethan was of the opinion that absorption is better than diffusion when the wall/boundary is fairly close to your listening position - i.e. diffusion needs "room" to diffuse.

That was the reasoning in my case. My back wall is not a totally solid due to a sideways "up" staircase that breaks it in half and the listening position may only be 4-6' from the back wall. I've also moved a bookcase to that back wall and placed some Roomtunes pads on the front of it. Ethan thought the front wall might still be a little too live for a diffuser, so I put a Realtraps RFZ between the speakers on the front wall, which seems to work great in terms of imaging.

Ethan Winer · « **Reply #46 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 05:08 pm »

Quote from: Ethan Winer on 27 Feb 2007, 04:50 pm

I've had three Far diffusors side by side on stands about 10 feet behind me for the past month

Just a small addition:

I also have a very large piece of cardboard beside the three diffusors, and when friends come over we take turns listening with the diffusors covered and exposed. Covered simulates having a bare reflecting wall 10 feet behind you, and exposed is, well, having three diffusors on the wall behind you.

The improvement when the diffusors are exposed is immediately obvious to everyone. I can't tell much difference between the diffusors exposed and the diffusors not there at all. Which is the whole point! If you have a smaller room and the wall behind you is not very far back, echoes and comb filtering from that wall take their toll on the sound quality. So having a row of diffusors on the rear wall is like having a room that goes much farther back.

Even listening a foot or two in front of these Far diffusors - much closer than intended - the sound quality is greatly improved when they are exposed versus covered with cardboard.

--Ethan

Daygloworange · « **Reply #47 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 05:55 pm »

Quote

Diffusion can be useful in many places in a room, though my tests at the first reflection points were not positive

What if the wells were done at an angle, Ethan? I've seen that in studios before, as I'm sure you have.

What are your thoughts on that at the first reflection point?

Cheers

arthurs · « **Reply #48 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 07:39 pm »

Ethan, based on this shot, where do you think a couple of diffusors would do me the most good? Behind the listening position in front of the couch, or between the couch and the windows? or maybe at the side wall entry to the alcove where the tubes are now?

brj · « **Reply #49 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 07:41 pm »

If you put them behind the couch, would you want to put absorption on the side walls of the alcove to absorb the resulting scatter?

Daygloworange · « **Reply #50 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 07:55 pm »

Based on what I'm seeing there Art, I would say that you have some spots there on the walls in between your bass traps for some treatment of first reflection points.

If it weren't for the window behind the couch, I'd say that it would be a perfect place for the diffusors.

Cheers

zybar · « **Reply #51 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 08:01 pm »

Why not simply put the Diffusors on stands right behind the couch?

George

Ethan Winer · « **Reply #52 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 08:48 pm »

Quote from: Daygloworange on 27 Feb 2007, 05:55 pm

What if the wells were done at an angle, Ethan? I've seen that in studios before, as I'm sure you have. What are your thoughts on that at the first reflection point?

I'm not sure what you mean by angled wells. Can you post a photo?

--Ethan

Ethan Winer · « **Reply #53 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 08:52 pm »

Quote from: arthurs on 27 Feb 2007, 07:39 pm

Ethan, based on this shot, where do you think a couple of diffusors would do me the most good? Behind the listening position in front of the couch, or between the couch and the windows? or maybe at the side wall entry to the alcove where the tubes are now?

I can't see the entire room, so I'd need to see more photos to comment knowledgeably. Also, what's behind the couch now, a heavy curtain? Regardless, I can imagine diffusion will be useful at many places other than direct reflection points. In a room that large diffusion might be good at reflection points too since it looks like they're far away.

--Ethan

Ethan Winer · « **Reply #54 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 08:53 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 27 Feb 2007, 08:01 pm

Why not simply put the Diffusors on stands right behind the couch?

That's what I was thinking too. But it also depends on how often the couch is used for listening. At the chair a Far diffusor would be good, but for the couch a Near one makes more sense.

--Ethan

Daygloworange · « **Reply #55 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 09:32 pm »

Quote

I'm not sure what you mean by angled wells. Can you post a photo?

What I mean by that, is that the dividers are angled at 30 - 45 deg.(from the wall) towards the front of the room. (rather than 90 deg.) So that the soundwaves enter the wells in more of a straight line and then get radiated back in the direction they came in at. Rather than glancing off at an angle. Kinda like a stair stringer in profile. I'll try and post a pic if I can find one.

Cheers

arthurs · « **Reply #56 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 10:38 pm »

Quote from: Daygloworange on 27 Feb 2007, 07:55 pm

Based on what I'm seeing there Art, I would say that you have some spots there on the walls in between your bass traps for some treatment of first reflection points.

If it weren't for the window behind the couch, I'd say that it would be a perfect place for the diffusors.

Cheers

I actually have some panels that I could use in between the traps, but those sidewall traps are also in the first reflection points and I'm guessing doing more than just bass trapping, as in also helping with first reflections. My fear is the room sounds great right now and I don't want to overdamp it. I'm going to try leaning some panels in those open spots but I know that won't give me the effect hanging them there will.....

arthurs · « **Reply #57 on:** 27 Feb 2007, 10:41 pm »

Quote from: Ethan Winer on 27 Feb 2007, 08:52 pm

I can't see the entire room, so I'd need to see more photos to comment knowledgeably. Also, what's behind the couch now, a heavy curtain? Regardless, I can imagine diffusion will be useful at many places other than direct reflection points. In a room that large diffusion might be good at reflection points too since it looks like they're far away.

--Ethan

The couch has a heavy velvet curtain behind it that runs across the entire wall from floor to ceiling. The couch is typically not in use for listening unless I have several people over, but 90% of the time it is just me....So I guess I could put some diffusion in front of the couch and move it behind it if I'm having company...the couch can also move back another foot or so....

ZooDog · « **Reply #58 on:** 28 Feb 2007, 02:20 am »

Great looking room. Must be very soothing after a long day. You mentioned that the LS-6s are prototypes, are you going to buy a production pair?

arthurs · « **Reply #59 on:** 28 Feb 2007, 02:23 am »

Thanks, I'm getting the LS-9's as soon as they get going on them....