Power Cords (again)

Dan Kolton · « **on:** 27 Oct 2006, 02:43 pm »

Anyone here who subscribes to the Audio Critic blog can go there and read Peter Aczel's analysis of power cords. It sounds almost exactly the same as Frank's analysis. If it's big enough to deliver the required current at the necessary voltage, it will sound the same as any other cord that does the same, Amazing how engineering and science beat baloney!

boead · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 Oct 2006, 04:00 pm »

Who is Peter Aczel and why would I care what his opinion is?

Forget about the science, it’s inconclusive. That’s like trying to use science to determine the best tasting wine or chocolate. It can’t be done!

Listen for yourself and make your own determinations. It’s all that matters.

According to science all amplifiers should sound the same but they don’t. Yada, yada, yada…

nathanm · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 Oct 2006, 04:02 pm »

I've noticed that there seems to be one unaddressed area where expensive, overbuilt, aftermarket cords haven't Saved Us from Certain Uncoolness. Vaccuum cleaners. I've owned or used vaccuum cleaners where after a brief session the cord gets all hot and floppy. That can't be right. Seems unsafe too! I want my vaccuum cleaner cord cool and calm, not on the verge of meltdown. So stock cords can't be good! Clearly the original vendor is incompetent and I will need to undo his crass oversight. I want my aftermarket vaccuum cleaner cord to come in an attractive suitcase with red velvet lining and a section of foam cut out so the coil can be artfully displayed. Then I want a pair of white gloves and a sheet of paper in there congratulating me on my purchase, as if it takes tremendous skill to spend money. I will gaze lovingly at this art object for a total of ten minutes after which the cord will be installed and the box kept in storage to become mildewy thanks to a malfunctioning dehumidifier in the basement as well as serving as a makeshift nest for a family of field mice. I am sure most vaccuum cleaner users would agree with me that aftermarket cords are very necessary. We need IEC plugs installed on these vacuums as quickly as possible! Those captive cords with that little grommet doodad just can't be Hi-Clean can they?

Daygloworange · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 Oct 2006, 04:22 pm »

Hey man, are you making fun of the replacement cord I just bought for my vaccuum cleaner? It seemed to make quite a difference I'll tell you........Now where'd that kitty get to.....

Cheers

budyog · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 Oct 2006, 04:26 pm »

The problem is that I reaplaced my cord on my ultralight vacume and now my wife can't carry the vacume up and down the stairs.

Boy, does it run good and way more powerful than the stock cord. aa

gooberdude · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Oct 2006, 04:31 pm »

I really like the Audio Critic...just subscribed a few weeks back. totally old school & straightforward.

did a simple experiment not long ago pitting cryo'd wattgate 5266i plugs against
slightly more expensive furutech fi-11 plugs. I make lots of CD's from LP's, so I used
the test cords to power my standalone HHB 850 burner. The cheaper plugs let
hash & grain enter the signal - its apparent & audible.

the best part is I can take the test cd's with me anywhere, in any system & let anyone listen. its a repeatable way to test stereo tweaks...

Now, had I only listened to the cords for the test, i dunno if i could hear much of a difference.
these cd's don't lie though, and it may be since i used a digital component that some feature of the furu plugs is more complimentary, again - dunno.

I've read that better plug designs address EFi & RFI intereference. Also, I weighed the plugs with my digi scale, the furu's are much heavier - this may have something to do with the audbilbe differences i hear. makes logical sense IF they deal with microphonics & vibrations. the shell of the wattgate's ring really high pitched when you flick them with a fingernail.

I'm completely against expensive cords, so i assemble my own. I can say with a lot of confidence that in some applications though, better plugs make a fundamental & welcome difference.

all tests were used with the same cabling, DH Labs Power Plus AC in bulk.

If you ain't a believer but still want a quality cord - any of the good bulk cables cost $6 a foot or so and
the furu plugs cost $75 together. In other words, for $125 or less you'll have capabilities close to the $1000 ones. Want the best made? Spend $100 more and get hi-end plugs.

Now, what I haven't tested is whether or not the differences are evident when using a 40 cent wall outlet

I doubt Aczel was using Oyaide!!!!

If petey was using stock outlets, then garbage in=garbage out & his findings are not complete.

nathanm · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Oct 2006, 04:34 pm »

You could simply buy two cords, one for upstairs and one for downstairs. Another great benefit of having a removeable cord! This would also allow you to A\B compare two different brands to see which cord sucked more.

Daygloworange · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Oct 2006, 04:38 pm »

I'm tellin' you, this cryogenic power cord really sucks!

Cheers

budyog · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 Oct 2006, 05:06 pm »

Quote from: nathanm on 27 Oct 2006, 04:34 pm

You could simply buy two cords, one for upstairs and one for downstairs. Another great benefit of having a removeable cord! This would also allow you to A\B compare two different brands to see which cord sucked more.

Nathanm, I hardwired my "0" gauge cord into my vacuum because the IEC connector just did not hold good enough contact during vacuuming. I do not want my wife or children to have any loss of power while
vacuuming!

On a more serious note: I believe that things are only as good as the weakest link! I also feel that anything over that wire gauge from your main service panel to your dedicated audio receptacle is a waist! I did change out my power cord on my AVA 350EXR6 to a 12 gauge wire (scrap from another project) and did not notice a difference but also have not had time to do any critical listening but I feel better knowing that I now have 12 gauge running from my service panel to my my audio equipment and my innards of my AVA 350. Isn't that also part of this hobby? To help us enjoy the music and in return feel better washing away the problems of the day!

jhm731 · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 Oct 2006, 05:28 pm »

Quote from: gooberdude on 27 Oct 2006, 04:31 pm

I really like the Audio Critic...just subscribed a few weeks back. totally old school & straightforward.

did a simple experiment not long ago pitting cryo'd wattgate 5266i plugs against
slightly more expensive furutech fi-11 plugs. I make lots of CD's from LP's, so I used
the test cords to power my standalone HHB 850 burner. The cheaper plugs let
hash & grain enter the signal - its apparent & audible.

the best part is I can take the test cd's with me anywhere, in any system & let anyone listen. its a repeatable way to test stereo tweaks...

Now, had I only listened to the cords for the test, i dunno if i could hear much of a difference.
these cd's don't lie though, and it may be since i used a digital component that some feature of the furu plugs is more complimentary, again - dunno.

I've read that better plug designs address EFi & RFI intereference. Also, I weighed the plugs with my digi scale, the furu's are much heavier - this may have something to do with the audbilbe differences i hear. makes logical sense IF they deal with microphonics & vibrations. the shell of the wattgate's ring really high pitched when you flick them with a fingernail.

I'm completely against expensive cords, so i assemble my own. I can say with a lot of confidence that in some applications though, better plugs make a fundamental & welcome difference.

all tests were used with the same cabling, DH Labs Power Plus AC in bulk.

If you ain't a believer but still want a quality cord - any of the good bulk cables cost $6 a foot or so and
the furu plugs cost $75 together. In other words, for $125 or less you'll have capabilities close to the $1000 ones. Want the best made? Spend $100 more and get hi-end plugs.

Now, what I haven't tested is whether or not the differences are evident when using a 40 cent wall outlet I doubt Aczel was using Oyaide!!!!

If petey was using stock outlets, then garbage in=garbage out & his findings are not complete.

If you upgraded the the PSU in your HHB 850 burner, it would make a much bigger improvement than any AC power cords or outlets.

Spirit · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Oct 2006, 05:43 pm »

Quote from: Daygloworange on 27 Oct 2006, 04:22 pm

Hey man, are you making fun of the replacement cord I just bought for my vaccuum cleaner? It seemed to make quite a difference I'll tell you........Now where'd that kitty get to.....

Cheers

That's funny Glowy!

gooberdude · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Oct 2006, 05:49 pm »

cool! can you steer me towards the parts to buy? I've never modded a piece of gear but do know some local techs that would.

The 850 I'm using is 10 yrs old, borrowing it from a friend. In a few months I'm going to buy a brand new one though. Once its broken in, i'd consider modding it.

When i'm burning, i keep 3 - 2" maple blocks underneath the 850...really helps too. the blocks bring bass out... i've not found another footer material that helps cd players/burners - i've tried all my mapleshade brass feet & of course the stock pastic feet.

avahifi · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Oct 2006, 06:49 pm »

Darn it Dan, why did you start this all up again? I would of course supply 10 gauge power cords, but then I would have to wind the primary of the power transformer with 10 gauge wire too (to match of course), and it would make the amplifier the size of a steamer chest and weigh 200 pounds and cost $40,000.00.

I think this might have more of negative effect on sales than the increased musicality of the 10 gauge wiring and transformer. Other problems, can't seem to find any vacuum tubes with 10 gauge pins or transistors with 10 gauge interelectrode connections. Makes the PC cards kind of hard to deal with too. 10 gauge resistor leads seem to be scarce also.

Darn it, so impossible to get that 10 gauge power cord sound from front to back. Oh yes, then there is the 10 gauge wiring of the tweeter voice coils, tends to slow them down a bit, but could be useful with some of our competitor's electronics.

Frank Van Alstine

warnerwh · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Oct 2006, 07:54 am »

Martin De Wulf asks readers in his newsletter this month to try different power cords with their coffee makers? He says it half jokingly but also half seriously.

I'd love to have a power cord shootout with these guys. Of course we would be changing them without telling anybody what was being used. Actually you could probably leave the same one in there and tell these people you changed it and they'd hear the difference. I'm sure it's purely psychological.

The part that is amazing is that seemingly fairly intelligent people could think a different power cord could make a difference. Then they're willing to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for something that does nothing and all the while listening to their systems in a room with horrible acoustics listening for these non existant differences.

CE2 · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Oct 2006, 10:23 am »

Riiiiiight. So an expensive oerpiriced piece of wire only shows how good it is if it's used with an equally over priced wall device. What happens to all the magic after the IEC connector inside one of these units? No more magic wire, it is usally good ole' hookup wire. Won't that negate the magic? So you saying that the AVA amp needs a 12ga line cord? Hmmm, most of em are fused for just like 10A. So the magic is still limited to about 10A, which a 14ga or even 16ga is ample. The line cord is hardly very long, so there really is no voltage drop. As in when you use a 50ft ext cord outside to power tools or lawn stuff, then the voltage drop on a high current tool, even then it really don't matter much.. Can you really hear how one of them grossly overpriced "audio grade" (even though NEMA and UL have no such designation) wall devices as marketed by some slick marketeers changes the sound of an amp? Me thinks not. I love the 10ga cords on 11W CD player upgrades!!!!! Do you also put Sunoco racing gas at about 110 octane in your Honda lawnmower?

CE2 · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 Oct 2006, 10:36 am »

MapleShadey, aren't they those clear cellophane line cords? Hmmm,how does a piece of wood change a digital recording? I use an HHB Burnit+ No such mods needed. so you wood be saying they didn't put feet on it that do anygood, (actually it is probably just there to allow ventilation, an air gap for convection, I'm sure) and they supplied the incorrect line cord? YET, they could design a slick CD recorder that works terrific, well built, and since the aftermarket hucksters are telling you it needs new feet and line cords, which they just happen to sell, THAT is what makes it better? HHB managed to do all the digital ckts, drive, internal power supplies, design the chassis, decide what types of input output ckts to include, BUT the feet and line cord, they screwed up!!!!!!!! Did you own a pet rock at any time?

Daygloworange · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 Oct 2006, 02:31 pm »

I'm in the process of putting wooden feet on my modded vaccuum cleaner, should clean up the performance even more!

Cheers

boead · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 Oct 2006, 03:08 pm »

Yes I’m sure the majority of the skeptics NEVER tried any unscientific tweaks. And the rest of the skeptics that did, did so with strong expectations that it can’t work – placebo factor at work? Oh and are likely old and have significant hearing loss

. This is something many don’t like to discuss but it’s a very important factor. I’m no spring chicken but I still have my hearing (well most of it) and I expect as I age, I’ll start loosing much if it. I’ve done plenty of reading and have a good idea what goes first and what to expect.

Much of Audiophile is expensive and /or frivolous and requires a dedicated place for setup making it less popular for the youth and overwhelmingly popular for the aging man. Just like all the 50+ year olds driving fast sports cars – what’s the point? At that age you don’t really speed (oh and if you think you do, reminisce back to your youth and see how you really don’t) and your reflexes aren’t half what they were (neither are your looks, so the chick factor is over too except for the young(er) succubus’s) but very few youthful men have the ability to buy $90,000 sports cars or $5000 amplifiers.

If I did a poll on this forum, I’m sure most are over 40 years old and a lot over 50 with quite a number over 60. I bet the 18 to 24 age bracket is tiny and the 25 to 39 smaller then you think. By age 35 many of us already have some hearing loss due to environmental conditions, by 45 more is gone now due to age and by 60 a significant amount is gone. You might think you hear just fine and you likely do but your frequency curve and perception is way off. Its part of life, then we die.

Did I make my point loud and clear (especially for you old folks and people in the back rows).

BTW: This is just my opinion based on observation. I’m just trying to track the problem to its source.

.

Steve Vol · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 Oct 2006, 05:12 pm »

You know, at RMAF I saw a power cord that cost $11,000!

How much would you need to spend on an amp, to make $11,000 for a power cord seen anywhere close to reasonable? Give me a break. I still like what Frank Van Alstine says, How much was spent on the wires coming into your house?

Wayner · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 Oct 2006, 05:34 pm »

There was a fella that developed formulas years ago and it is called Ohm's Law. It deals with electricity at the molecular level and proves through math that the world, the universe and even electronic circuits seek harmony and balance.

Fact: a larger cross-sectional area of a conductor will have 1) less resistance and 2) have higher amperage carring capacity then it's smaller conductor counterpart. The next fact is that the subsequent conductor will nullify the first conductor if its cross-sectional area is smaller when hooked in series; i.e. the resistance of the smaller conductor and its current carring capacity rule.

If the designer of a piece of audio equipment didn't take the time to make sure that susceptible circuits were properly shielded and the new "zillion dollar" power cord had some better shielding, then the result may be less noise.

Other than that, the rest of any argument has zero base in science.

Many people believe that there is such a thing as a rechargeable battery, when in fact this is not true. The fact is that the battery is a chemical device that creates a build up of positive charge. The battery should really be called a regenerating battery as those types of batteries that are intended to be put into a recharger are actually having the chemical process reversed, so that the chemical reaction that creates the charge can happen again.

This is called physics.

Anyone that believes in the magic power cords really needs to start understanding marketing and science. They are at the opposite ends of the spectrum many times.