My XRS epiphany

chadh · « **on:** 13 Oct 2006, 04:17 pm »

I've owned a pair of the Super 3 XRS speakers now for just over two weeks, and thought I'd stop in to share a little of my experience.

I got lucky, and picked up a beautiful maple pair on Audiogon. They slipped straight into the system, and I held my breath. Understand, I had never heard single driver speakers before. I had no idea what to expect. But I was extremely excited.

Initially I was also a little disappointed. The sound from the XRS seemed closed in, especially in the upper frequencies. Up high, everything seemed constrained and bright. It hurt my ears after a little while. There was no shimmer to cymbal sounds, it was all just fizz; saxophone and trumpet sounded tinny. Imaging was surprisingly nice, given that the speakers are in less than ideal positions, and that tone in the midrange seemed to be there a lot of the time. It was just that upper register...

Well, I contacted Louis to see what I was doing wrongly. And (this will come as a surprise to nobody) he was extremely helpful. It's great to find someone who stands behind his product even when the owner was never a direct customer. The speakers were about six months old when I bought them, but had apparently been played only lightly over that time. Then they'd been boxed up and unused for a time. Amongst other suggestions, Louis thought it likely that they needed some time to break in.

So, I was sitting at the dinner table with my wife last night. The stereo was on. Madeline Peyroux was singing. I'd cooked a Thai style fish curry, made with Canadian cod. The liquid accompaniment was the venerable Trader Joe's Three Buck Chuck chardonnay. And you know what? Madeline Peyroux was sounding really good. When my wife retired for the evening, and I settled in to listen a little more closely.

Madeline Peyroux did sound really good. But the music wasn't really doing anything very taxing. So I went looking for something else. I put on a John Pattitucci album, Mistura Fina (http://www.vervemusicgroup.com/product.aspx?ob=prd&src=list&pid=9377), which is sort of homage to all sorts of Brazillian influences he's enjoyed. There's lots of complex percussion, obviously all sorts of stellar bass playing, and also some pretty sweet sax work (I suspect from Eric Marienthal). It all sounded wonderful, especially Patitucci's soloing which had so much tone and texture. I've never heard this music sound nearly as good. When the saxophone played, there was none of the shrillness I'd been hearing before. Cymbals and other high pitched percussion suddenly played in real space, with real reverberation. There was a natural, musical quality to the high frequencies where previously it had been bright and artificial sounding.

And all of this was happening at low, low volume.

The best part was the way the music was endowed with real body. It was substantial music, satisfying with its rich, compelling rhythm as well as the boldness of the statements of the soloists and the brilliance of the percussive effects. I felt like I could practically sink my teeth into the music, if only it would sit still long enough for me to catch it.

I put on the Dire Straits self-titled album last. This may be my favorite album of all time. Again, the music was soft so as not to wake the wife or kids, but it had so much authority at the low volume. My whole living room just felt alive. And of course, Mark Knopfler's guitar work sounded just magnificent. (Does anybody else think that "In the Gallery" has just some of the most soulful and perfectly conceived guitar work of all time?)

Anyway, it was a wonderful evening listening to music: I didn't really want to go to bed. The XRSs are sounding awesome, and it happened all of a sudden. Many, many thanks to Louis for the speakers and the advice. The scary thing is that Louis suggested the speakers might actually sound better if the drivers are coated with some dammar varnish. I'll try to pick some up, but will probably hold off applying it for a while, given that things are sounding so nice right at the moment.

If you're wondering what else is in my system:

Bolder modified SB2 with Wayne's basic power supply
Space-Tech-Labs QA-001 pre-amp (using a pair of RCA silver label 6sn7GT tubes)
Channel Islands VMB-1 monoblocks
All interconnects and speaker wire is Bolder m-80.

Chad

miklorsmith · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 Oct 2006, 05:01 pm »

That sounds like an intelligently built system. Congrats!

If those drivers are typical of the breed, you have another couple of months of improvements in store too.

I'd be careful with the varnish. I've heard many folks report improvements with it, but it does change the sound and is not reversible. If you choose to apply it, read up first. I think it has to be mixed with something else to thin it down for application and how much thinner is used relates to varnish thickness and degree of sound change. Go very light at first - multiple coats would be better than overshooting the mark the first time.

If the drivers aren't too expensive, you could burn in a second set in the garage. Leave one set unvarnished and experiment with the other. Then you could even put one of each in a cabinet, put them side-by-side, and switch back and forth so you don't have to rely on the notably unreliable aural memory. Fun!

TheSloth · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Oct 2006, 08:46 pm »

Quote from: miklorsmith on 13 Oct 2006, 05:01 pm

That sounds like an intelligently built system. Congrats!

If those drivers are typical of the breed, you have another couple of months of improvements in store too.

I'd be careful with the varnish. I've heard many folks report improvements with it, but it does change the sound and is not reversible. If you choose to apply it, read up first. I think it has to be mixed with something else to thin it down for application and how much thinner is used relates to varnish thickness and degree of sound change. Go very light at first - multiple coats would be better than overshooting the mark the first time.

If the drivers aren't too expensive, you could burn in a second set in the garage. Leave one set unvarnished and experiment with the other. Then you could even put one of each in a cabinet, put them side-by-side, and switch back and forth so you don't have to rely on the notably unreliable aural memory. Fun!

With the Hemp Drivers just round the corner, I'm not sure I'd go with the Dammar if you are enjoying the sound as it is. In my case, the drivers I had really didn't sound right (and I'm sure that there is variation in FR from one driver to another just as there is with headphone full range drivers), and both Louis and I were both very impressed at how they just went up to another level with the Dammar applied (with care, by Louis).

If you are enjoying the XRS, keep the fostex as they are and get the Hemp drivers soon if you are looking for a different sound.

Louis O · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Oct 2006, 12:11 am »

Hi chadh,

Many thanks for your post and the experience you had with the XRSs. It's always my pleasure to help out whenever I can and I knew it was break in issue. It happens here at the shop if the speakers aren't played in a while or in transit to a show although this only takes a little while to get going again.

miklorsmith is right about the varnish not being reversible and I agree with TheSloth about the hemps, they are right around the corner and this will be a different sound.

Thanks again,
Louis

roymail · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Oct 2006, 04:39 pm »

I love my Super 3s w/modded Clari-T amp, but when the 5" hemp is ready, I'm in. Personally, I doubt you could go wrong with either driver. If your XRS is pleasing your ears now, I wouldn't touch those drivers with varnish. However, I trust Louis. These speakers are his designs and I'd do whatever he advises. My recommendation, FWIW, is to enjoy them the way they are and try the hemp drivers when they're ready. Louis, like Vinnie, really knows his stuff. And, yes, he's a heck of a nice guy and always helpful to me. Enjoy those wonderful XRS speakers. One other thing, the 127e is a very revealing driver. I would test them using your best recordings first. Lesser recordings won't sound quite so nice. Just my $.02

Louis O · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Oct 2006, 12:07 am »

Hi Roymail,

Thanks and I will be ready in about 5 to 6 weeks for the production hemps. I'm trying now to get them toned down on the top a little. Were working on it right now.

Thanks again,
Louis

Brad · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Oct 2006, 01:19 am »

Roy,

If the tone on the smaller hemps is even close to the 8" driver, swapping the driver out is going to make a big difference for you.
Guitars just sound "right" with the hemp.
I think you'll end up with more bass and power handling as well (I'll leave that for Louis to say for sure)

Cheers,

Brad in Houston

Louis O · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Nov 2006, 01:37 am »

Hi Brad,

Thanks and the tone is the same as the 8"s. I was hoping for that and they first couple of prototypes didn't have it. The big thing was changing the VC diameter to 18mm and lightening the cone. They have better extension up top and more xmax too. I did coat them and they are even better. The tone is more balanced like the new 8"s. The new baskets look way better than the old ones too.

Thanks again,
Louis

dgu · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Nov 2006, 09:20 pm »

For those who have heard both, how would you describe the difference in sound between the hemps and the fostex drivers? I have Super 3 V2 and a Clari-T, and I love the combo, but the sound is sometimes too bright. Would the hemps sound a bit more mellow? If not, how would you describe the difference? Thanks!

Louis O · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Nov 2006, 01:25 am »

Hi dgu,

The new hemp driver is mellower and I had to do a lot of work getting them sounding smooth. We went through 4 prototypes and some VC changes along the way. What I have learned with the last set is: Break in is huge and not up and down. It's more of an even progression. The bass is stronger and the resolution in the midband in very transparent like the 8" drivers. The top end is also more extended. The drivers have can handle more complex material. When the bass comes in it's very strong and evens everything out.

What I do here at the shop. I mod the dustcap with felt. The other is a 4 step coating that I brewed here and is the best I've tried. I'm in the middle of finishing some Fostex drivers with it and will post about the sound.

Thanks again,
Louis

dgu · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Nov 2006, 04:53 pm »

Thanks, Louis. Just let us know when you have them ready and I will definitely place an order!

ZLS · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Nov 2006, 05:03 pm »

aa Louis,

Dual Driver Hempcone Super XRS?

rajacat · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Nov 2006, 05:21 pm »

8" Hemp Super Bipoles?

Dmason · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Nov 2006, 07:49 pm »

Wow. Either of those would be complete monsters I bet. Hemp TS33, Bipole 8.

Interesting thinking...

Louis O · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Nov 2006, 01:43 am »

Hi ZLS,

I built some already, but no sound yet as I need more 4.5" hemp drivers. I'm actually making some Maxhemp bipoles right now on a special order. These are big boxes.

Hi Rajacat,

I wont forget to take pictures of these when they are done.

Hi Dmason,

Wild stuff and have a speaker called the Hammerhead running right now. Don't know if I will make them as they are pretty weird.

Talk to you soon,
Louis

Dmason · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Nov 2006, 02:42 am »

Weird is my specialty!

Build them and they will come.

It all sounds very interesting, especially the twin hemp driver, smallish high speed cone, ~4db lift, bigger sound, all the good, none of the bad. In hemp. I like.

ZLS · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Nov 2006, 04:53 am »

aa This is what I want. An Omega Speaker with sensitivity in the high 90's and a benign impedance curve. All of the beautiful Omega sound only matched by the breathtaking beauty of the Cabinetry. All of this for the more than reasonable Omega price. Oh, of course flexability of room placement.
The ability to swap out drivers with drop in replacements wouldn't hurt either.

P.S. I got to hear the SuperHemp 8" Dipole. Talk about loading a room!!

Louis O · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 06:55 pm »

Hi Dan,

It's unusual, but sounds great, i think I will bring to the NY rave and will have a lot of pics. The 4.5s are working better then expected and after the break in they are way better than before. the tone and the transparency of the 8"s are all there. The bipoles are something I always likes and the I will post about the hemp versions pretty soon. The benefits are amazing.

Hi ZLS,

Many thanks and this is what i will be focusing on. i really think the flexibility in this is key. Soon the whole line will be hemp and i will have more news very soon in regards to the newest drivers.

The HiQ is almost there, and will be able to make 16 ohm versions. Alnico is in the works too, but they will be slightly less sensitive.

Thanks again,
Louis

DRCope · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Dec 2006, 05:33 pm »

Holy Cow, Louis! And here I am thinking we're bad at Audio Note because we have a dozen versions of the E speaker!

Am I reading this correctly? You're working on alnico 4.5" hemp drivers and you're doing a bipole Super 3 XRS? So then it would be possible to do a Super 3 XRS Bipole with alnico/hemp drivers?!

If so, there's only one thing left to do: silver-wired voice coils!

http://www.triodeandco.us/secretlair.jpg
Coming to you from the secret minimalist lair . . . iTunes->Airport Express (or iPod) ->Clari-T->15" Magnavox w/alnico magnets. Audio Note SPe silver speaker wire.

Louis O · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 12:51 am »

Hi Dave,

The 4.5" are really working out and they are way better than I anticipated. I have fuller bass and the transparency of the 8"s. Scale is a bit smaller than the larger speakers, but it's all there. I don't know about an alnico version of the 4.5" driver yet, but I did get the latest plot on the 8" alnico and it's really good. Very well balanced and smooth in the mids with bit more bass energy. I hope to get the drivers to test. One drawback is they are about 93dB spl.

Thanks again,
Louis