Recomenditions for New Speakers

Antman27 · « **on:** 4 Aug 2006, 07:01 pm »

Hell all, I am toying with the Idea of trying a new set of speakers ,I am limited with space and was wondering if anyone could recomend something in this aprox size
22" tall Give or take
8" wide kind of tight due to room funiture
12 " deep could be deeper if need be

My complaints on My Paradigm 40's is lack of lows they roll off about 63 Hz

Thanks ~

PhilNYC · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Aug 2006, 07:04 pm »

The Green Mountain Audio Callistos are almost exactly that size and would fit the bill nicely...

http://www.greenmountainaudio.com/Speakers/Callisto/Specifications.htm

Double Ugly · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Aug 2006, 07:12 pm »

The Callisto is an excellent speaker, IMHO.

Room size may have been a factor, but I preferred it to the Continuum 3 at the '04 RMAF.

bgewaudio · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Aug 2006, 07:15 pm »

What kind of sound are you looking for?

What are you listening habits?

Floor stander, or stand mount?

R_burke · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Aug 2006, 07:16 pm »

Check out the RAW HT3s, there taller than you want, but meet your needs otherwise. RAW has a site here

GHM · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Aug 2006, 11:39 pm »

How about just add a small sealed sub?

To get real bass you'll need to go to a floorstander type speaker.

JLM · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Aug 2006, 01:04 pm »

Yeah, what GHM said.

How much/deep of bass do you want?

Have you listened to test tones with an spl meter to determine just how much/deep of bass you want?

john1970 · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Aug 2006, 01:43 pm »

If you want deep bass (sub 30 Hz) you are going to have to go with a sub / bookshelf speaker combo or a dedicated floorstanding speaker. Given your space requirements I would recommend the sub path.

Is there any reason why the speaker can only be 22" tall? If you are willing to go with a taller speaker (~48" tall) there are several mini-towers with side firing 10" woofers that give reasonable (but NOT deep) bass down to ~35 Hz.

Please let me know what your budget is as well. Good sounding speakers can be available at all price points.

John

Antman27 · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Aug 2006, 08:35 pm »

Thanks guys,
I do have a Paradigm PDR-8 sub and I know its not the best around .
I just ordered the Avia Test DVD so that may help me figure out whats missing .I may get a new sub & keep the speaklers
The speakers are part of a home theater system & the 22 " puts the tweeters juyst about center of the TV & the speakers sit on the funiture that the TV is on .I will post some Pix .
Is the Avia DVD a good set up tool or should I get something else ?
With my Denon 3805 .I run its mic & it sets the sub level out & it seams so low when I do that I wind up cranking it back up. My sub has a Frequency Variable 50 Hz – 150 Hz so I set it in the midle . and a volume level . I set the denons crossover @ 80 .
THis sounds like no lows so I wind up cranking the volume on the sub to max and the Var to 150 Than I hear some lows .
What am I doing wrong ?

MaxCast · « **Reply #9 on:** 5 Aug 2006, 10:15 pm »

I would guess the 8" sub is not enough.
Give us a budget. Check out the manufacturers here as well as SVS.

JLM · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Aug 2006, 10:52 am »

Don't know the Denon, but seems like using a 80 Hz crossover point for the 40s should be plenty high enough. A good rule of thumb for setting sub volume levels is to turn it up high enough on familar music so that you can just hear it, then turn it down a bit from there.

A sub should only augment and not call attention to itself. You're not one of those underground bass extremists are you?

Inscrutable · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Aug 2006, 10:50 am »

Antman,
That 8-inch sub doesn't have appreciably more extension than the 40's ... maybe half an octave. Get a sub that moves more air, and a Velo SMS-1 if you can swing it.

Bob Reynolds · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 04:30 am »

You simply need a better sub -- nothing wrong with the Monitor 40s. Look at the Paradigm Seismic Series 10 or 12.

Regarding the Avia DVD -- it is very good for video and maybe less so for audio; at least for what you have in mind. Pick up the Stereophile Test CD #3. The bass warble tones will give you some good information. Also, you can download test tones from the M&K pro web site that will help you set or verify the level of the sub. When done properly, you should not be aware that a sub is in the system.

Since you are using the low-pass filter in the AV receiver, you need to by-pass the low-pass filter in the sub completely. Since you are letting the Denon set the levels it may be possible that for a given sub level setting it can not boost the signal enough to where it should be. You might try running the Denon setup procedure with the sub's level set at max and by-passing its low-pass filter. Obviously, you want to tell the Denon that the speakers are "small" and that you have a sub in the system.

Digi-G · « **Reply #13 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 01:43 pm »

Hi Antman,

Budget is everything. How much are you willing to put into speakers/subwoofer?

I'm running a Denon 3300 A/V Receiving that has a fixed sub output at 80Hz. I've got B&W Nautilus 805's for my main speakers - highly recommended, but a bit pricey (maybe). I've got them on stands so the tweeter is at ear level when seated - about 34" high - isn't that what you should strive for as opposed to matching the tv center? Anyway, the speaker size is very close to what you were aiming for and they go down to about 45-50Hz. They sound great when matched with a sub. I've got a Velodyne 1250x - probably not the best (tightest) Velodyne model but it does alright.

Good luck...

bgewaudio · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 02:20 pm »

I agree with JLM, Given it's name, (subwoofer) is designed to compensate for the main loudspeakers inadequacies in reproducing the sub base, (30 Hz and below) this also explains the difference between subwoofer and woofer, you want the sub to pick-up basically where you mains leave off, there are far too many people out there that are using subs only to augment the lows, which should not be.

I think what you should do is disengage your receivers low pass filter to run the 40's full range, (pay attention to the crossover slope as well) and engage low pass filter on you sub, so you can adjust it to blend with you mains

Antman27 · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 02:31 pm »

Thanks all , Looks like I may try a new sub & keep the 40's (for now)
Are ther any good small subs in the $500 rang Or will I need to spend double that to get good low tight bass?
How would I bypass the low pass filter in my PDR8 untill I get a new one ? The 2 settings on the sub are Subwoofer Cutoff Frequency Variable 50 Hz – 150 Hz and the Line Level Input.
I will put a new Sub on my Santa list .I would like one in light cherry wood and to be on the smaller cube size mine now is 13x9x14
How would the Velo SPL-800R compare to what I have now ?
I will also look & paradigm Seismic and Ultra Cube But thay only come in black
Any other suggestions.

bgewaudio · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 03:24 pm »

Here is what I think the problem is, all our lives only a select few of us have had the pleasure in listening to high end systems growing up, the rest of us have been reluctant to listen to lower end systems, that means that the bass response most of us are used to are the ones full on 1st, 2nd, 3rd order harmonics (distortion), boomy, muddy sounding bass that is not actually bass at all. So having said this, I think that this carries on into our adulthood and we keep on thinking that this is what bass is suppose to sound like. But it is not accurate by all means, real bass is much smoother and tighter than the latter, almost sound totally different. Velodyne DD series and Paradigm Signature Servo reproduce some of the most pleasing LF I've ever heard.

bgewaudio · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 03:32 pm »

If shear output is what you're after, take a look (or listen) at the Earthquake MKIV15, SPL's are absolutely disgusting, can push massive amounts of air!, Response is quite smooth as well, incredible reach down to a teeth rattling 15 HZ!

MaxCast · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 03:53 pm »

SVS
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

av123
http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=subwoofers&product=6.1

Bob Reynolds · « **Reply #19 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 05:34 pm »

Quote from: Antman27 on 8 Aug 2006, 02:31 pm

Thanks all , Looks like I may try a new sub & keep the 40's (for now)
Are ther any good small subs in the $500 rang Or will I need to spend double that to get good low tight bass?
How would I bypass the low pass filter in my PDR8 untill I get a new one ? The 2 settings on the sub are Subwoofer Cutoff Frequency Variable 50 Hz – 150 Hz and the Line Level Input.
I will put a new Sub on my Santa list .I would like one in light cherry wood and to be on the smaller cube size mine now is 13x9x14
How would the Velo SPL-800R compare to what I have now ?
I will also look & paradigm Seismic and Ultra Cube But thay only come in black
Any other suggestions.

I'm not familiar with the PDR8, so I can't say that $500 will get you a better sub or not. In my office system I use an M&K K9, which is an 8 inch driver in a sealed box. See M&K direct site here: http://www.mksoundstore.com/store/merchant.ihtml?cid=31&step=2. The size of the sub will generally depend on the size of the room. Also, in general the larger the driver the less distortion it will likely produce.

I would try the Denon setup procedure again with the sub level set to max before looking for another sub. You might be able to save the money for now. Since you don't have a by-pass setting on the PDR8, set its low-pass filter as high as possible - 150Hz.

Honestly, I think your physical limitations on the size of the sub are going to limit the bass you can expect from the speaker.