Recomenditions for New Speakers

Antman27 · « **Reply #20 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 05:55 pm »

Thanks Bob , I will give that a shot -should I also run the Line Level Input wide open to its loudest ?
I think I tried this when I set up the denon a while back and it set the individual speaker volume like this
R +10
C +12
L + 10
RS +12
Ls +10
SUB - 6
In a denon forum fokes said it would be better to be closer to 0
so IE
R 0
C +2
L 0
Rs +2
Ls 0
SUB 0

MaxCast · « **Reply #21 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 06:30 pm »

Yes, closer to 0 is best as many receivers put out higher distortion when these levels are maxed out, especially the sub. Better to max out the sub's volume control then add more with the receiver if needed.

Did you get your avia yet?
Do you have an SPL meter? If not, get one. You will use if for the rest of your life. Receiver levels have a mysterious way of changing over time from tweeks and unlicensed fingers.

Start at 0 then bring each channel up/down to the same output reading on the spl meter.

Antman27 · « **Reply #22 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 06:53 pm »

Thanks .I got the DVD last night .I have to wait till wife & baby are out of the house to run test tones .I do have a SPL but it is digital -should I get an analog one ?
When I set everything on the denon to 0 and max out the sub with the denons mic & auto set up that is when it set most chs up 12 ish and the subs ch down to -6
I will try again this weekend & set the line input of rge sub to about 50%

bgewaudio · « **Reply #23 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 06:55 pm »

Keep the digital one, put on fast response C weighted.

MaxCast · « **Reply #24 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 07:09 pm »

Quote from: Antman27 on 8 Aug 2006, 06:53 pm

Thanks .I got the DVD last night .I have to wait till wife & baby are out of the house to run test tones .I do have a SPL but it is digital -should I get an analog one ?
When I set everything on the denon to 0 and max out the sub with the denons mic & auto set up that is when it set most chs up 12 ish and the subs ch down to -6
I will try again this weekend & set the line input of rge sub to about 50%

That seems odd.
Give the wife the credit card and tell her to go shopping. Fire up avia and let us know your readings.
I would let the denon do its auto set up thing then take a read.
Then do it manually closer to 0 and compare the sound.

I would set speakers to small and use the 80Hz xo.
Set the sub volume to 50-75% and turn the sub's xo to the highest point.

Print some graph paper HERE

The analoge is better than the digital but I don't remember how much better. And you sould use the slow setting.

bgewaudio · « **Reply #25 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 07:15 pm »

Guess this depends on which digital SPL meter you have, never had a problem with mine, works excellent?

To each, his own............I guess.

bgewaudio · « **Reply #26 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 07:27 pm »

Set crossover on receiver to 80 hz, and max out the crossover on the sub to 150 hz?

That means the mains and the sub will be reproducing a full octave simutaniously?

Which means peak in response between like 70-160, (or whatever the crossover slope is)

This will not give you the ideal flat frequency response.

Unless you want that?

Bob Reynolds · « **Reply #27 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 07:42 pm »

Quote from: Antman27 on 8 Aug 2006, 05:55 pm

Thanks Bob , I will give that a shot -should I also run the Line Level Input wide open to its loudest ?
I think I tried this when I set up the denon a while back and it set the individual speaker volume like this
R +10
C +12
L + 10
RS +12
Ls +10
SUB - 6
In a denon forum fokes said it would be better to be closer to 0
so IE
R 0
C +2
L 0
Rs +2
Ls 0
SUB 0

The problem with large signal boosts is over driving the speakers. Typically, the receiver will not have a problem. In general, cutting is safer than boosting. So, yes, being close to zero or negative is preferable.

What you see with the sub's level maxed is that the receiver had to attenuate it by -6 and still had to raise the other channels to reach a level balance. So, as suggested, reduce the sub's level until you get the other channels near zero.

An obvious question... Is the sub tight into a corner? If not, you're losing quite a bit of free boundary boost.

Regarding the SPL meter... I think you can find compensation values for the RS analog meter on the net since it is not linear. Some test CDs, like the one from Rives has the compensation values taken into account in the test tones. I read recently in Stereophile, I think, that RS sold the rights to the analog meter to another company and they have improved the meter.

Bob Reynolds · « **Reply #28 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 07:47 pm »

Quote from: bgewaudio on 8 Aug 2006, 07:27 pm

Set crossover on receiver to 80 hz, and max out the crossover on the sub to 150 hz?

That means the mains and the sub will be reproducing a full octave simutaniously?

Which means peak in response between like 70-160, (or whatever the crossover slope is)

My understanding is that setting the xover in the receiver at 80 Hz, with the speakers set to small, will set an 80 Hz high-pass filter on the main speakers and an 80 Hz low-pass filter on the sub. Thus, the main speakers and the sub will *not* be sent the same frequencies (except near the crossover point). Setting the sub's internal low-pass filter to 150 Hz ensures that that filter is basically out of band, because only 80 Hz and below will be sent to the sub.

bgewaudio · « **Reply #29 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 07:52 pm »

OK, just a sec, Antman, does you sub have a direct/x over switch?

Antman27 · « **Reply #30 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 08:06 pm »

No direct/x over switch

bgewaudio · « **Reply #31 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 08:12 pm »

Ok, I think this is where the confusion lies, with my set up, I can set the pre/pro x over to 80 hz, but if I put my sub into bypass mode, I can actually increase the low pass x over on the sub and invade 80 hz and above, sorry did not know

Different controls

bgewaudio · « **Reply #32 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 08:13 pm »

Antman, just to be clear. Are you looking for a flat response or are you looking to have more of a peak in the lower registers?

Antman27 · « **Reply #33 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 08:20 pm »

I Think I am looking for a peak

The sub does not sit tight into a corner
There is no corner to put it in the frot of the room
I will post som Pix If I figure out how to add them in
Thanks ~

bgewaudio · « **Reply #34 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 08:25 pm »

The pics would be fantasic, then we can see what we're all talking about!

Where is your seating located?

bgewaudio · « **Reply #35 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 08:32 pm »

Sorry have to go out for a bit. More on this later!

Peace guy's

Inscrutable · « **Reply #36 on:** 8 Aug 2006, 08:34 pm »

Quote

I Think I am looking for a peak

I think if you heard it with relatively flat response you would change your mind. The movie soundtracks will take care of accentuating the low end where/when necessary, and your music will sound much better.

The Paradigm 40's are down 3dB at 63hz ... depending on the slope of the filter/crossover(s), you may want to set the low pass up to an octave above the -3dB frequency ... so 100 or 120 hz may be a better setting. Downside is that the higher frequencies from the sub may be localizable.

For an affordable ~500 sub an Adire Rava (or whatever they may be calling their 12" Shiva-based unit) is really really good for the $.

bgewaudio · « **Reply #37 on:** 9 Aug 2006, 12:28 pm »

I agree with Inscrutable, Run the 40's full range, Set the sub low pass slightly above to compensate for rolloff, should get a more seamless integration, which I think will sound much better

Antman27 · « **Reply #38 on:** 9 Aug 2006, 01:01 pm »

Off the topic -How do I post Pix in the thread ?

MaxCast · « **Reply #39 on:** 9 Aug 2006, 01:17 pm »

To post an image you must upload one to the internet some where or start a gallary here. Then insert its address when you click the insert image tab in the post window.

The text should look something like this
[img]http://www.audiocircle.com/galeryblahblahblah.jpg[/img ]