[fajimr]

A Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your reviewers,

an appropriate ending for this discussion, methinks. 

and respectfully hugh, I think you should lock it up.  both sides have been presented- I doubt anything more productive will come from this discussion.  your call of course, you have much more invested than i do.

jim

[Srajan Ebaen]

Point taken and appreciated, Hugh.

Yes I was angry - with bikes and beats for certain insinuations. I usually let such things slide without comments. Today, I felt like getting involved. Since I'll assume that you work just as hard at your business as I do at mine, I imagine you can at least appreciate why this particular gentleman's posts didn't sit right by me.

But that's neither here nor there now.

I'm sorry we won't get to review your product since we enjoy reporting on affordable audio. My apologies if my comments in this thread caused you to reconsider matters. For that I'm sorry. I won't apologize however for being a passionate man and for sometimes perhaps following my passion where I shouldnt. 

Happy Holidays to you and yours, too.

PS: My comment of "toys for boys" was partially in jest. And partially not.

[fajimr]

obviously my call to close it was a bit premature   

I, for one, certainly appreciate your comments, srajan

jim

[AKSA]

Srajan,

Thank you for your measured, thoughtful post.  Greatly appreciated.

And yes, I can clearly see why B&B upset you - I too have been goaded in the past but it is an inescapable part of being human - particularly if we actually do anything in life!

I hope we speak again!

Cheers,

Hugh

[SuperMart]

Hi All,

Just in case the baby has gone out with the bath water may I too wish all readers a very happy Christmas especially those lucky fellow Life Force owners who will be listening to carols on a sublime world-class amplifier. There's really no need to pursue a new review - just  read DSK's review on this forum. Thanks Santa Hugh for giving me the gift of music this year and my thanks to all fellow ACers for creating such a joyful place of shared knowledge. Peace to you all.

Cheers,

[miklorsmith]

Significant disagreements reconciled maturely.  I love this place.

Happy Holidays Everyone!

Mike

[Srajan Ebaen]

Indeed, it's my favorite place to participate in, tho I don't do much of it just coz I'm really and truly too busy.

All is well that ends well and thanks for understanding that even usually even-tempered fellas can get grouchy if stimulated properly...

On that note, an offer to Hugh.

Because I do this gig full-time (I'm the only one on staff to do so), I can turn around stuff that shows up broken in fairly quickly. I can even slip something in that I know is coming without knowing when it's coming, exactly. (That happens anyways with things that show up later than promised).

So - if you want to take a second go at it with us -- actually, me in particular -- no need to commit to any particular delivery date since you won't hang me up. I've got plenty of things going at any given time. It can literally just show up and I'll take care of it as I do anything else - fairly, comprehensively and my opinion only. The only requirement is that it be cooked and ready to go - well, after a few days of settling in and warming up, all standard protocol. I just don't have the liberty of long down times where my system is shut down for break-in purposes.

So if you're game and can cook an amp on your end and a Cyprus destination doesn't queer the deal, simply contact me directly at my usual e-mail, I'll give you my shipping details and that's that and we're off to the races.

If not, understood and no hard feelings. There's certainly plenty of other places you can pursue though -- wearing my arrogant Teutonic cap for a moment -- I do think we're one of the better options. 

Hey, you expected me to say that, didn't you?

Cheers.

[TimS]

Hi Srajan and Hugh

I am the proud owner of a AKSA 55N+ and am considering buying the LifeForce, but unfortunately cannot audition it "in the flesh". I enjoy reading 6moons reviews, considering them fair and unbiased, so I for one would like to see a professional review of the LF.  If it betters the 55N+ (as many have reported) then it will make an upgrade decision a little easier.  My 2c worth 

cheers

Tim

[Jens]

Gentlemen,

I can certainly appreciate the standpoints of both Srajan and Hugh.

One of my closest friends is a professional reviewer, and many is the time where a product has failed to show up as expected for his reviews (that I've often taken part in) - for a number of different reasons. When planning a magazine, that sort of thing can be quite annoying and difficult to deal with.

On the other hand, most reviewers are used to some measure of these delays and don't loose interest in a product just because of this, and as manufacturers who offer products for review do run into problems now and then, it would probably be wise for reviewers to adopt at least some measure of patience before totally rejecting a product for review simply on the grounds of delays (provided these are not infinite ).

Now, I will refrain from commenting directly on the previous discussion in this thread, except that I find that now that everyone has let off enough steam to avert an explosion, why not make good use of the remaining steam to get the train rolling and let us have a review of the Lifeforce amp - I feel Srajan has made a fair offer 

[DSK]

...I am the proud owner of a AKSA 55N+ and am considering buying the LifeForce, but unfortunately cannot audition it "in the flesh". I enjoy reading 6moons reviews, considering them fair and unbiased, so I for one would like to see a professional review of the LF.  If it betters the 55N+ (as many have reported) then it will make an upgrade decision a little easier.  My 2c worth  ...

Unanymous rave feedback/reviews of the LifeForce by AKSA owners, all suggesting it is superior to the AKSA by more than a small margin, don't sway you ... yet a single review from a 'professional' reviewer (who hasn't reviewed the AKSA as far as I know) would???

There are many enthusiasts on this forum and others who have spent many years in this hobby and compared a large number of components. Yet, because they don't write for a magazine their ears are less golden than a 'professional' reviewer and their observations less valid? I can understand newbies falling for the trap of believing all professional reviewers are demi Gods with superior auditory skills and who never make mistakes. But surely they grow out of this naievety.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that 'professional' reviewers' observations are more or less valid than those of experienced enthusiasts. Just that they are simply one more point of reference, no more no less. And, I wouldn't consider 'professional' reviewers less biased than enthusiasts who make their decisions based on their own ears and wallets.

BTW I am not pointing anything here specifically at 6Moons. I enjoy their reviews too and the hard work involved. It is always nice to read a positive review of a piece of kit you own, but a negative review certainly wouldn't change what 'I' hear in 'my' system in 'my' room and I wouldn't be perturbed by it.

I can undersand that it it not "sexy" to review a component from a (traditionally) kit supplier, especially one not in its final chassis (though this has no bearing on the sound). The fact that the LifeForce is not available, in a shiny gold chassis, for view and audition on B&M shelves in the US, also makes it difficult for Hugh to penetrate the market and even less interesting to 'professional' reviewers. Nor would it surprise me if a bland prototype chassis led to a negative bias in the reviewer's mind (consciously or not) against the quality and performance of the component.

Although it kind of hurt to lose names like Plinius, BAT etc from my system, the improvement in my system from these ordinary looking Aspen components made the decision easy... regardless of there being no 'professional' reviews available.... sure glad I didn't sit around waiting for them.

Just my 2c worth... 

[stvnharr]

I think it would be very good for Aspen to get a review of the Life Force in any publication.  Hopefully the logistics of the present situation can somehow be worked out to everyone's satisfaction.
Yet, getting a review of a piece that is not on the marketplace doesn't really do too much, but perhaps starts the process of becoming a force in the marketplace as it is exposure beyond the little Circle here.

Reviews are simply information.  Professional reviews do have a bit of credence in that the reviewers hear a lot of gear, usually far more than the average listener.  User reviews tend to be, well, more on the enthusiatic side.  Though many, such as Darren's recent piece, are quite informative.

It was easy for me to spring for the Life Force as I heard one of the prototoypes, and it made an impression on me.  Yet it was still a leap of faith.

I just think it would be good for Aspen if it could happen.

[Geoff-AU]

I almost participated in this thread 24 hours ago, but decided not to because it would only be my opinion from a hobbyist's point of view - I don't give a damn what an amp looks like it's all about the sound.  However, 6moons clearly puts a solid emphasis on presentation on their website and thus I can understand them knocking back a "bland" front panel when something more exciting is in the works.

I think the truth of the matter lies in between both sides, there has just been a misunderstanding.  Sometimes this is a fatal blow, other times it is recoverable.  Whether Hugh and Srajan give it another shot is up to them.

The benefit of a independent reviewer, as opposed to most of the members on here, is that the independent reviewer has put no money into the product and thus has no expectations when listening to it.  I certainly place great value in the LF reviews I have heard so far, if I had some money burning a hole in my pocket you can bet I would throw it at Hugh quick smart.  But nothing can beat someone who doesn't know Aspen from a bar of soap, plugging a Lifeforce amp in and going "f**k, this is amazing!" and writing about it

[AKSA]

Thank you Srajan,

A very generous offer, particularly in the circumstances, I agree with others' comments here - thank you sincerely.

I will contact you by email before Christmas, and thank you for your kindness.

Cheers,

Hugh

[lonewolfny42]

Thank you Srajan,

A very generous offer, particularly in the circumstances, I agree with others' comments here - thank you sincerely.

I will contact you by email before Christmas, and thank you for your kindness.

Cheers,

Hugh

Cool.... ....looking forward to reading the review at 6moons.
Hugh....I did get to hear Paul's LifeForce at the last Rave.....sounded very good....nice job !!!

Have a Merry Xmas....and a very Happy New Year !!!!

                                          Chris

[G Georgopoulos]

Srajan Ebaen:

The only requirement is that it be cooked and ready to go - well, after a few days of settling in and warming up, all standard protocol. I just don't have the liberty of long down times where my system is shut down for break-in purposes

wow cooked huh thats not what i want my amps to go through!!

Hi Srajan i know Hugh from diyaudio.com is one of the best audio designers
australia has produced, infact other users (ie Greg Erskine) have told me
that his amps rock and they have been using them 99.9% of the time
cool huh?

Srajan i visit 6moons often and i have to say is one of the best reviewing
sites online good on you guys superb job always

Srajan i make some of the very exotic amps money can buy would you
be interested in doing a review of one of the finest class-as ever made
listening is an experience you wont forget, you can put any pass amp
next to it , it is simply unbelievable

here is my site
http://georgopoulos.awardspace.com

nice to talk to you Srajan, thanks

[shep]

Mr. Geogopolous, You may make the best-sounding amp. in the world but for sure no one is going to buy it or bother to look further if you don't do something mighty soon about that wretched site of yours.
I don't mean to be insulting but if you have seen the trouble people go thru to present their products and info. pertaining to them ( I'm speaking of those who contribute here), you got to admit it's a bit shoddy to put it kindly. It's a fact of life that presentation is an important factor in decision-making... "eye candy".
I for one do not wish to spend serious money on a bread box, no matter how it sounds! 6moons has made this practically into an art form and it's always a pleasure to visit and re-visit. Pride-of-ownership...maybe it is petty and ego-stroking but that's how a lot of us are built. Get some young gung-ho web designer to put together a nice package and while you're at it, how about some specs. I bet you will get some sales.
(Sorry to hi-jack but it's sort of on-topic)

[lonewolfny42]

G Georgopoulos.....this is not the proper place to post your ad.....

[Srajan Ebaen]

Mr. Geogopolous, thanks for your interest. Let's take this topic off-forum however. This is the Aspen Audio circle and this particular thread was about a review of their product in our pages. The proper approach for a review solicitation is to contact me directly with a proposal, not to interject and hijack a thread from one manufacturer to another especially if self interest is involved.

In response to another poster higher up in the thread, I completely concur that "professional" reviews and owner reviews are equally viable and valid if you know enough about either writer to know how his/her biases and listener preferences align with yours. If not, either are more or less useless outside of entertainment value and basic information on the component. I would never propose that my ears are better than anyone else's, or that my opinion was more substantative. The only thing different is that I and other "professional" reviewers have developed a body of work you can check for reference, hopefully coming across a few components in turn you've heard yourself to know whether the writer's findings match yours, are 180 degrees out of phase (just as useful if consistent) or off the wall.

And, professional writers expose themselves to more criticism, innuendo and slander just by being in the public eye. That's part of the job 

As a manufacturer, professional reviews can create more visibility if the publication is well read. But if you're a prospective shopper, interfacing with known owners of the product you're interested in would be even more valuable for long-term assessment, reliability, set-up tricks, tweaks, tuning and the like... that's where the circles and similar forums come in and add a useful service to the hobby.

[G Georgopoulos]

The proper approach for a review solicitation is to contact me directly with a proposal, not to interject and hijack a thread from one manufacturer to another especially if self interest is involved.

what can i say " i am sorry" it was not intended to offend anyone
my sincere appologies to Hugh

and Srajan thanks ,keep up the good work at 6moons.com

kind regards
George

[AKSA]

George,

No problem.  I know you well enough to realise it was well intentioned, no offense intended.

A Merry Christmas to you and your family!

Cheers,

Hugh