[Wayne1]

I have been geting some questions and requests for another run of Deluxe and/or Ultimate power supplies.

The Deluxe PS was a short (6 units) run of the Basic PS in a Black anodized aluminum case with Panasonic PS capacitors. It did improve the sound of the original Basic PS.







The ULTIMATE PS used a LARGE Black anodized aluminum case with solid core silver wiring, Silver Slipstream Bybee Purifiers and 94,000 ufd of Jensen four pole capacitors.



Here are some comments from the owner of the Ultimate PS, Double Ugly :" yes, it's still sounding good…and then some.  Bring on any heavy-hitters you want, I'll take all comers at this point.  I genuinely believe this is as good or better than any digital ensemble I've ever heard; full DCS stacks, Esoteric, whatever.  The Ultimate combined with a fully-modified SB2 is the equal of anything extant.

From mgalusha during a listening session comparing power supplies"
For a source we were using Pete's Bolder modded Squeezebox 2. Part of our reason for getting together today was to listen to various flavors of SB power suppliies. Wayne brought over his latest super duper ultimate SB power supply chock full of exotic parts. Jerry brought his power supply, also from Bouder but somewhat less exotic than Wayne's latest creation. I brought my DIY supply which has a Felicia balanced power system internally. Pete has one of the "Standard" model Bolder supplies that is Wayne's entry level supply.

All of the supplies were plugged into Pete's BPT balanced power system. The exception was my DIY supply as it has internal balanced power and sounds better plugged directly into the wall.

Without going into a detailed analysis the outcome was that Jerry's midlevel supply was a substantial improvement over the standard model and the new Ultra power supply was significantly better than that. My power supply sounds very similar to Jerry's and was also significantly bettered by the new Ultra supply. Enough so that I have to consider some of the exotic parts that Wayne is using in his top of the line model.

Interestingly, when we first connected the top end supply we all felt it was an improvement but not by a huge amount. After a while we removed it and went back to the midlevel supply and that is when the differences were quite apparent. We did this several times and it the clear choice for all parties. Amazing how the removal of quality is more noticeable that the addtion of improvements.

From Tyson (same session):

I showed up after Mike and Jerry had left, so I got to listen to my tracks pretty much exclusively. I'm pretty sure that Wayne and Pete don't every want me to bring over any D12 ever again icon_smile.gif

I brought my own hard drive worth of music, all encoded at level 8 .ogg vorbis encoding. Very close to CD quality sound but with a 5:1 compression ratio. I did this on purpose to see if at some point there was a level reached where the compression of the files would become the limiting factor instead of the equipment.

I listened to the Squeezebox setup in the following order:

Stock Power Supply & Stock Squeezebox
Mid-level power supply & stock squeezebox
Mid-level power supply & upgraded Squeezebox
High level power supply & upgraded Squeezebox
Ultra level power supply & upgraded Squeezebox

The evaluation tracks I used were:

Shostakovich - Cello Concerto #1 played by Misha Maisky
Ani DiFranco - Up, Up, Up, Up, Up.
D12 - Get my Gun

Impressions:

Stock Power Supply & Stock Squeezebox
Bluntly put, it sounded like Pete's speakers (which I had never heard before) sucked. It sounded like they had a good tweeter and poor woofers, and a crappy crossover because the highs were so disconnected from the midrange. Not very pleasant at all.

Mid-Level Power supply & Stock Squeezebox
Wow, the speakers weren't the culprit cause as soon as the new PS was in the loop the mids and highs integrated and became spatially much more coherent. Still a lot of hash in the sound and a completely flat soundstage though.

Mid-Level Power Supply & Upgraded Squeezebox
Suddenly there was soundstage depth and you could actually place a few instruments around in that soundstage. Now wer are starting to get close to acceptable sound quality.

High-Level Power Supply & Upgraded Squeezebox
Almost all the harshness of the highs are now gone, it's much more relaxed (easy to listen to), several veils have been lifted, and it is probably on par with the best CD based systems I've heard. Much better and clearer spatial information.

Ultra-Level Power Supply & Upgraded Squeezebox
The thing that immediately hits you is the warmth and full power of the lower mids. The sound takes on a weight and life-like conviction. Dare I say the v-word? Yes, it does indeed have a lot of that tactile presence that good vinyl has. A lot of minor intakes of breath, subtle changes of rhythm, you can really hear a band listening to each other and adjusting to each other in real time. Very nice indeed, I was quite impressed.

I am planning to place another order for cases to build some more of an upgraded PS. The comments I have received about using the Jensen Caps make me lean to making these "standard" in the "improved" power supply.

I have a couple of questions for the group.

Does the size of the case and color matter a great deal to you?
The color options are:
1) Black anodized aluminum
2) Natural finish aluminum front with a gray case

The size options are:
1) 12" w x 3" h x 8" d
2) 12" w x 4" h x 12" d

I have at least one request for the smaller natural finish and one for the smaller black.

One of the Jensen caps would require the taller chassis if it is mounted vertically. It can be mounted horizontally but that does take more time and money which would raise the end users cost.

I need to buy a minimum of 6 of one kind to get a good price break.

There would be a three week wait to get the chassis once they are ordered. Then comes machine work and assembly. I will guestimate 2 months from order date for completion.

The "improved" Power supply with Jensen caps would sell for roughly $600.00. Slipstream Bybees can be added for $200.00. 99.99995% pure Silver wiring can be added for $75.00. Silver Slipstream Bybees are $400.00.

The DC output cable is an extra. I will have two versions. One is an M-80 style coaxial which is $75.00. The upgrade is a Nitro shielded, twisted pair. This lowers induced noise pickup considerably. That adds $150.00 to the cost.

The power supply can be wired for 120 or 240 VAC. The AC power cable is extra.

This will be a another limited production run. These power supplies will not be stocked. They must be pre-ordered.

The people who purchased the Deluxe PS can get their units upgraded with Jensen caps, Bybees etc, Please drop me an e-mail for pricing.

Double Ugly has indicated to me that he might be willing to loan his Ultimate PS to a couple of folks for a short audition. Please get in touch with me if you would be interested. I would like it be an audition of just the difference between SBs and power supplies. Woodsyi and Zybar come to mind as excellent candidates. Perhaps even the NYAR group.

I would appreciate it if the members of AC would indicate their interest in these power supplies. I would also appreciate any suggestions for a better name for the PS.

[woodsyi]

Wayne,

That sounds like a great plan.  I have been wanting to try that ultimate beast of yours.  I am sure I am not alone and we can get some MAAC members to do a comparison.  I know of at least 3 that have SBs.  Just let me know when and if I should leave you deposit or something.

[Wayne1]

Woodsyi,

That sounds fantastic!

I really think it would be educational to compare the Ultimate PS to your lab grade PS. I will get in touch with Jim (Double Ugly) about getting the PS to you.

[zybar]

Wayne,

I am no longer in NY and probably won't be going to any NYAR gathering for a bit.  

I am going to need a few weeks to get my system up and running (as well as tuned) in the new house, but after that I am extremely interested to hear the Ultimate PS.  I have been in contact with Jim and I know how much he loves it.

BTW, once I unpack I will send you the PS I owe you.

George

[Wayne1]

George,

I was aware you have relocated to Boston. I was not sure how far along you were on getting settled in.

Perhaps Phil or Josh or one of the other NYAR group would be willing to host a SB and SB power supply comparison. I would vey much like to get Paul's (Occam) thoughts on the sound of the different power supplies. Again, I think it would be educational to compare a stock SB supply to a surplus linear to the OH-MY-GAWD-HOW-MUCH-IS-THAT    Ultimate PS.

[JoshK]

The table wart surplus linear that Occam loaned me is a noisey SOB!  I still need to try the corcom, but the table wart one's hum is very audible anywhere in the room.

[Wayne1]

The table wart surplus linear that Occam loaned me is a noisey SOB!  I still need to try the corcom, but the table wart one's hum is very audible anywhere in the room.

I found the same thing with the surplus Hosfelt PS that a customer sent me.

To my ears it was not as harsh as the stock PS. I changed the diodes and caps which made it sound "faster" but the mechanical hum was very annoying from 10 feet away. I guess that is why they were surplus.

[Wayne1]

It appears that Woodsyi will not be able to audition the Ultimate PS for a couple of months.

Is there anyone out there who is able to listen and report back in the next week or so?

[JoshK]

I could.

[yo2tup]

I'd love to try out the Ultimate PS.  My "surplus" ps is pretty decent, no hums or anything  weird.  It sounds good to me - a nice upgrade over the switcher.  But my SB3 is still stock... waiting for my turn on the digital mods!

[Wayne1]

4 of the 10 "superior" power supplies have been sold and deposits taken.

Please contact me asap if you are interested in obtaining one of these limited edition, incredible sounding products. This power supply will trully take your SB to the next level.

A 50 % deposit will be requested. The project completion will take about 8-12 weeks.

[Wayne1]

Make that 5 of 10 pre-ordered and deposit taken

[woodsyi]

Wayne,

At this rate, you won't be needing any reports.  I just talked to Jim and I will be giving it a listen on March 11th.  Originally, I was having a few people over to compare conditioners:  Felicia, RSA Haley, EA EA15A and Audiophile APS Purepower 1050.  They will just have to do double duty in listening to your too-expensive-to-tell-your-wife-the-price ultimate PS and my HP Agilant commercial PS as well.
Oh, do you want to send me a Equi=Tech unit to go against these as well?

[mgalusha]

Wayne came by today with one of his new power supplies. Not quite the same as the above but in the same league. We compared it to my Felicia/SB combo power supply, which is very similar to his, the main difference being that Felicia is built in. We  plugged his PS into my BPT 2.5 UE. Much to my suprise the PS plugged into the BPT had better dynamics and considerably better bass. The major difference between the power supplies was mine has balanced power internally, Felicia, while we plugged Wayne's into the BPT's balanced power.

I'll be adding a big switch to my PS so I can compare it between the Felicia and the BPT but after what I heard today, I strongly suspect the BPT is doing a better job.

Wayne also brought along his experimental, gotta cost way too much money, solid silver, cryo treated SB unbilical cable. Comparing that to the normal, entirely adequte cable was suprising. Given that we're only talking about 5VDC it shouldn't make a difference but it did and it was not something you had to listen for. I don't even want to know what it costs but if you can afford it (whatever that is) the results were excellent. My system was sounding very good today. Hell it sounds good (to me) every day but this took it up a couple of notches. I've heard Jim's Ultimate PS as well and again, if you can afford it, very nice. Thanks Wayne, you keep trying to make me a poor man.

[mcgsxr]

I am just glad Wayne doesn't live near me, or I would need a second mortgage!

Thanks for sharing the recent experiences guys,

[JoshK]

Interesting results.  Is that the only difference, the bpt vs the Felicia?  I know a couple of peeps who sold their BPT's upon building hte Felicia so I'd be interested in hearing more about this.  It won't ruffle my feathers to learn the BPT is better than the Felicia, but it might be informative.

Maybe the SB draws too much current?  5vdc x 1.5amps = 7.5 watts right? Maybe it isn't enough draw?  None-the-less interesting....

[mgalusha]

Interesting results.  Is that the only difference, the bpt vs the Felicia?  I know a couple of peeps who sold their BPT's upon building hte Felicia so I'd be interested in hearing more about this.  It won't ruffle my feathers to learn the BPT is better than the Felicia, but it might be informative.

Maybe the SB draws too much current?  5vdc x 1.5amps = 7.5 watts right? Maybe it isn't enough draw?  None-the-less interesting....

I was quite suprised Josh as I've been delighted with the results of Felicia in combination with my SB supply. My supply is a little different than the one Wayne brought over today but not significantly so. He agreed the main difference was the BTP vs Felicia as the source. That's why I'm going to mount a nice heavy duty toggle in the back so I can easily compare. Paul suggest this when I built it as he was curious as to which would be better but I didn't feel like messing with it but I now have some incentive to do so. Since I have a couple of 10A/250V DPDT switches it will only cost me a little time. I'll let you know the results. 'Course that has to fit in with all the other toy projects in the queue such as the Greg Ball amps and a tonewarm rewire.  

Mike

[JoshK]

Don't get me started with toy projects....     I've been busy all day with a couple of remote preamps.  I haven't started the SKA amps yet, they will be after some xo upgrades to my Modula MTM which I may get to tonight.

I lost my SMD cherry today.     I soldered a bunch of SMD parts in my Dantimax remote stepper (to be fit with dave slagle AVC) project.  I do not advise following my steps with 4 cups of coffee in your blood!

P.S. given Dan B's study of the Felicia and suggestion that it really needs a 50 watt load, I am wondering if that played an effect.  Might a lesser tx (we have some suitable) be better in this case?  Don't know....

[mgalusha]

Sorry Wayne, thread derailment for a minute...

Don't get me started with toy projects....     I've been busy all day with I've been busy all day with a couple of remote preamps. I haven't started the SKA amps yet, they will be after some xo upgrades to my Modula MTM which I may get to tonight.

Oh I know the feeling all too well. I've been tinkering with the power supplies in my Odyssey Extreme's. If my simulation is accurate I hope to reduce the ripple by a very large amount. Unfortunately one of the amps was occupying the middle of my build bench. It had to move so I could start on my GB amps. My Expressimo tonearm is completely disassembled waiting for me to rewire it. I was going to finish the boards today but had to do our taxes this morning and they Wayne and Jerry called and we ended up listening and jabbering most of the day. So much for that idea.

I lost my SMD cherry today. I soldered a bunch of SMD parts in my Dantimax remote stepper (to be fit with dave slagle AVC) project. I do not advise following my steps with 4 cups of coffee in your blood!

LOL, doing SMD work after more than 1 or 2 cups doesn't sound good. They can certainly try your patience. I work with them but not without good reason.

P.S. given Dan B's study of the Felicia and suggestion that it really needs a 50 watt load, I am wondering if that played an effect. Might a lesser tx (we have some suitable) be better in this case? Don't know....

Hadn't thought about that. Could be. I supposed I could always stick a big resistor across the secondary but that would be mighty lame. Nah.

[Wayne1]

Hey Mike,

No problem with the hijack

Thanks for letting me come over yesterday to tempt you and Jerry with new goodies

The two power supplies we listened to were VERY similar. After sending the Ultimate to Double Ugly, I really missed the warmth it brought to the system.

I took a look around the shop to see what I had on hand that I could put together that would come close without costing me too much in cash. I had the transformer, regulator, one Jensen four-pole of the right size, wire, diodes, circuit. No big case or big Jensen filter cap.

I did have a small case still that I used for the T-amp. It would not give me the separation I wanted from the transformer and they are not vented, but hey, it is for me and I didn't have to lay out any money. I had some Jensen four pole caps for the Panasonic mod that would fit inside the case. I built up the value using the small Jensen, Panasonics and some BlackGate "N" series left over from another project.

The input IEC and fuse holder were cryo-treated ACME Audio Silver. All internal wiring was cryo-treated Silver in Teflon tubing. The Bybees I used were the old style smalls, I removed from an old video cable project. The box is very small and ugly but the PS works and is another proof of concept that the design and parts selection of the Ultimate is on the right track.

When we compared Mike's and my "prototype" PS, mine was using a Nitro PC. I am not sure what Mike had used to plug into the wall. He used the old Carver IEC and fuse holder and he had the Felicia transformers and caps in his box. He use the BIG Jensen four poles and had 94,000 ufd of filter and storage capacitance, He used Silver wire to internally wire his. He also used the old style, small Bybees

So you can see that they are fairly closely built. The biggest difference was the Felicia parts. The sound was quite a bit different. Mike's just didn't have the dynamics or low end that the one I built had. In comparison, it sounded like the battery supply vs the AC supply we did a few months ago, with Mike's sounding like the battery.

I am not too sure about the comparison between the DC cables. Yes, there was a great deal of difference between the two cables, sonically. One was a "M-80" design, being a coaxial cable. The other was a "Silver Nitro" design, being a shielded twisted pair. I think the true test will come if we compare Jerry's Nitro DC cable to the prototype Silver so we can hear the same geometry, but different material.

I did bring my latest souped up SB2 over for a listen, but a shorted Sonicap in the output of one channel brought the evaluation to a quick close. For the short time we did get a chance to listen, it did sound a bit better than Mike's. The Silver Slipstream Bybees did add more "air" and defintion to the top end and the BlackGate bypass caps seemed to bring a bit more "punch" to the sound. I have replaced the bad Sonicap and am running the "noise" from a Hagerman FryKleaner through my SB2. Hopefully by next weekend it will be ready and maybe we can have a rematch.

I have received another 2 possible orders for the high end PS.

Only 3 left  Get those orders and deposits in quick