Improved Squeezebox Power Supply

Turk · « **Reply #20 on:** 27 Feb 2006, 02:50 am »

Oh, good. I thought I was going to be able to buy Tiny Tim those crutches, however, since next week would be an excellent time to compare my nitro cord and squeezebox to Wayne's latest iteration, Tiny will have to limp through to Christmas.

I really am getting the best digital I have heard. Today I took down my $6k vinyl rig. God I hate it when this happens.

mgalusha · « **Reply #21 on:** 27 Feb 2006, 03:13 am »

Quote from: Turk

I really am getting the best digital I have heard. Today I took down my $6k vinyl rig. God I hate it when this happens.

But just think, you could take the Eurolab, Cornet, Ultraverve, Macintosh and your mini Utopias and make one ass kickin' system for your garage.

Hell, Rose might not even complain about the room treatments...

On a serious note, we might have to gather at your place (or somewhere else) next week as I'm not sure how well my wife will go for listening sessions two weeks in a row.

cytocycle · « **Reply #22 on:** 27 Feb 2006, 12:53 pm »

Wayne,

Dropped you an email requesting help on which options for both SB mods and which options in the powersupply. But put me on the list for one for one of the powersupplies.

If anyone has any "MUST" have suggestions for the mods.

I'm thinking the larger case, upgraded power cord between the unit.
But I'm unsure as to what is the best options as my system borders on too much detail/bright and in the past silver anything has made it brighter which I don't want to happen.

Suggestions?

Slipstream Bybees can be added for $200.00.
99.99995% pure Silver wiring can be added for $75.00.
Silver Slipstream Bybees are $400.00.

Regards,
Chris

zybar · « **Reply #23 on:** 27 Feb 2006, 02:45 pm »

Quote from: mgalusha

Wayne also brought along his experimental, gotta cost way too much money, solid silver, cryo treated SB unbilical cable. icon_eek.gif Comparing that to the normal, entirely adequte cable was suprising. Given that we're only talking about 5VDC it shouldn't make a difference but it did and it was not something you had to listen for. I don't even want to know what it costs but if you can afford it (whatever that is) the results were excellent. My system was sounding very good today. Hell it sounds good (to me) every day but this took it up a couple of notches. I've heard Jim's Ultimate PS as well and again, if you can afford it, very nice. Thanks Wayne, you keep trying to make me a poor man.

Is there a price yet on the silver umbilical cord or should I not even ask?

George

Wayne1 · « **Reply #24 on:** 27 Feb 2006, 03:10 pm »

Have you any room treatments? That would be the first suggestion I can make. Forget about power supplies and so on until the room is treated.

If you have good treatment by someone like Eighth Nerve or Real Traps, then I would suggest the Jensen caps and the "small copper" Slipstream Bybees in the power supply. There are differences in sonics between the copper and silver Bybees and they do not translated into sharp or piercing.

To make absoutely certain, Jack Bybee does suggest the GOLD Bybees in solid state analog aplications. They would be $250.00 each. They "might" help you out when used in the analog output.

The Sonicap Platinum and Gen 2 Bypass caps do add greater clarity and defintion to the SB2.

Right now George, the Silver umbilical is a prototype only. It needs one more comparison to the "Nitro" umbilical to find out if there is a differencf and if the difference would be some money.

So far, the majority og people ordering the power supply want the smaller case in black. I do have two requests for silver. I am leaning towards not ordering the larger case at all.

cytocycle · « **Reply #25 on:** 27 Feb 2006, 04:05 pm »

I just put my deposit down! the wait begins..

Thanks Wayne for your time and help.
Chris

Turk · « **Reply #26 on:** 27 Feb 2006, 05:55 pm »

Mike,

The only ass kickin' will be executed by my wife if I set up a second system. Although, I have enough to set up three systems.

We can meet at my place for the next session.

For those looking to update squeezebox and PS, the triple Sonicap is the way to go with Bybees. Nitro DC cord, Jensen caps in the PS. If you can afford them, get the silver Bybees. We have listened to most of Wayne's power supplies and these improvements are spectacular.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #27 on:** 1 Mar 2006, 05:24 pm »

8 orders in and deposits taken

The Ultimate supply is going to be headed to woodsyi next week. For any of you in the MAAC, I would truly appreciate it if you could make arrangement to drop by and take a listen. I would be very interested in finding out what everyone in lower elevations and higher humidity thinks of the sound

BTW I have reserved a room at RMAF in October. I hope to meet with a lot of the AC folk there. The exact system that will be used there is still up in the air a bit.

The will be a modded SB2 and Ultimate type power supply. It will play direct into an amp into a pair of speakers. That should be it. Very simple and hopefully very good sound.

woodsyi · « **Reply #28 on:** 1 Mar 2006, 05:47 pm »

Quote from: Wayne1

8 orders in and deposits taken

The Ultimate supply is going to be headed to woodsyi next week. For any of you in the MAAC, I would truly appreciate it if you could make arrangement to drop by and take a listen. I would be very interested in finding out what everyone in lower elevations and higher humidity thinks of the sound
...

Anyone interested in listening to the Ultimate PS, just give me a PM for directions and RSVP. It will be March 11 starting at 1 PM.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #29 on:** 2 Mar 2006, 04:10 am »

Quote from: Wayne1

BTW I have reserved a room at RMAF in October. I hope to meet with a lot of the AC folk there. The exact system that will be used there is still up in the air a bit.
...

Great to hear Wayne !! I see the RMAF 2006 info has been posted....its an excellent show !!!

Chris[/list:u]

woodsyi · « **Reply #30 on:** 10 Mar 2006, 04:56 pm »

The UPS in the hands of Fedex!

The power supply was picked up by Fedex and should be here today. It looks like we will have an interesting shoot out between many different levels and types of stock and modified Sqeezeboxes. There is still room for a few more if you are interested. It starts at 1 PM and go until we are done. There will be plenty to drink with snacks and fingerfoods to cover lunch. If (probably) we go into the evening ours then we will order out for pizza -- there is a local independent joint that is pretty good. PM me for directions if you need it.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #31 on:** 10 Mar 2006, 10:03 pm »

Looks like FedEx is taking their time getting the PS to Washington, DC.

Latest tracking information shows it will not show up until Monday.

Sorry about that, guys. FedEx seems to be able to get a package across the country from Colorado in 4 days. I guess the south and mid-atlantic regions are different.

bubba966 · « **Reply #32 on:** 11 Mar 2006, 02:51 am »

Quote from: Wayne1

Looks like FedEx is taking their time getting the PS to Washington, DC.

Latest tracking information shows it will not show up until Monday.

Sorry about that, guys. FedEx seems to be able to get a package across the country from Colorado in 4 days. I guess the south and mid-atlantic regions are different.

Well, DU does live out in the middle of nowhere. Takes forever to get things sent to or from him. I tried sending him something once and was told that a certain "guaranteed" shipping option wasn't guarantedd to his neck of the woods because it's so far away from civilization.

I keep trying to get him to move somewhere up here so that's not aproblem anymore. Hasn't worked so far...

Robert57 · « **Reply #33 on:** 17 Mar 2006, 05:01 pm »

Last night Woodsyi invited a couple of us (Den and myself) over to audition the loaner Bolder Ultimate PS, comparing it with his HP lab power supply, using his Bolder full- mod SB2. Thanks, Woodsyi, for your incomparable hospitality and for once again making available your fabulous system for critical listening. This comes on the heels of last Saturday's small gathering at Woodsyi's to compare power conditioners (more on that later), so we had a fairly fresh baseline on a variety of music tracks with which to compare the power supplies, swapping different conditioners along the way to see if they made much difference. Woodsyi's RM40's, combined with his modded Hurricane tube amps and Legend all-tube preamp, offered a very revealing, highly transparent, and intensely musical window into the recordings. The opportunity to kick back, listen to some fine music, and enjoy some of Woodsyi's excellent micro brew stock was a real treat.

The bottom line: the Bolder UPS was a significant, noticeable improvement over the HP Lab PS in just about every department. This is my first "review" on the AC--so please forgive my loose terminology and rambling discussion. What impressed us all about the UPS was the the sense that one is hearing real music with a fully fleshed out organic rightness and richness. All the music seemed to flow effortlessly, and seemed more three dimensional. Compared with the HP lab PS, there was just a bit more guts and flesh on the bones that made the notes seem rounder and more fully formed, and more believable, as if the musicians were playing or singing live before us in the room.

In the bass, the UPS seemed quite a bit tighter, deeper, and more resolved. The plucking of guitar strings and striking of piano keys all seemed to have richer harmonics, a more organic realness about them. The decays seemed longer, and you could hear more of the microdynamics and air around instruments. All the percussive string notes just seemed more complex and authentic. The instruments and voices seemed to stand apart from one another more clearly, in bolder relief, and the music lines were more easily followed in this full bodied, more robust presentation. By comparison, the HP lab PS, while certainly no slouch, seemed a bit thinner, more two dimensional, and not as fleshed out or robust sounding. The smallest details, particularly in the bass, were brought out quite a bit more clearly with the UPS, without ever sounding analytical or harsh. In fact the UPS was able to substantially remove the female singers' sibilance (Eva Cassidy), and highs generally seemed more airy, extended, and smooth. The piano and acoustic guitar tones and harmonics seemed more natural, complex, and realistic with the UPS.

These improvements were evident regardless of the power filtering, but the better conditioning (Exactpower 15a and RSA Haley) further improved the whole presentation (for both the UPS and HP), with greater dynamic drive and a blacker background, over the dedicated "naked" 20 amp line. For kicks we tried the same full-mod Bolder SB2 with the stock switcher wall wort plugged into a plain AC outlet (no dedicated line or conditioner). As one would expect, this was by far the worst performer in all respects-- much poorer than the HP lab PS and nowhere near the refinement and realism of the UPS. The bass was much looser and less defined, the overall separation and dynamics collapsed down considerably, highs seemed rather thin and tizzy, and the music seemed much flatter and more synthetic. The illusion of players in front of us (so believable with the UPS) dissipated immediately with the stock PS in play. Piano notes seemed bright and not quite right tonally. The small details in the bass were not quite there, and the bass line became flabby and loose and weak. Complex orchestral passages and dynamic transients and swells just lost their power and emotion. The sibilance in Eva Cassidy's Field of Gold was much more pronounced, and downright distracting.

We all agreed that the UPS made a very noticeable, worthwhile improvement over the HP lab PS, even with quality conditioners in the path. Mind you, the differences were not "dramatic" or "night and day". On its own. Woodsyi's full mod SB2 combined with the HP PS sounded very nice and full and rich and would be more than acceptable to most of us. Lsast weekend we were al ver impressed with the SB2/ HP lab combo--it beat the pants off the Redbook CD presentation on his Sony ES SACD 777 player. If the the UPS/ Bolder SB2 scored a 10, my overall rough scoring would place the HP lab at a solid 8.5+, and the stock switcher at a 6. The HP PS was quite refined and brought out considerable definition and musical palpability, PRat, and realism compared to the lowly stock switcher supply. But when replaced by the UPS, suddenly the music came further alive and took on a still more fleshed out, more realistic presence. There was more detail, better rhythm, better dynamic contrasts and transients, and the subtle tones of the strings, percussion, and voices all seemed more organic and believable. All without any grain or harshness.

As Woodsyi said very well, with the UPS you could easily get lost in the music and not be distracted by the details. But the music was all there, details more defined than ever, and flowed very naturally.

Thanks again to Woodsyi for conducting this audition, and for giving us another very enjoyable evening. And thanks also to Jim and Wayne for so graciously arranging for us to listen to this very impressive Ultimate PS. This session makes me even more eager to finish up my own UPS order with Wayne.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #34 on:** 17 Mar 2006, 07:41 pm »

Thanks for your comments, Rob.

Nice to know that a hand-built $1000.00 custom power supply sounds better that a $1500.00 retail lab grade power supply

All of the listening sessions here in Colorado seem to match what you were hearing there in DC.

The Ultimate and now the Superior power supplies do just sound better on music.

Because of the various comment about the sound of the power supply with the Jensen caps, I have decided to stop making the "Basic" power supply. All orders that have been placed will be filled. After that, the only power supplies I will offer will start at $600.00 for the Superior.

Tweaker · « **Reply #35 on:** 17 Mar 2006, 08:00 pm »

$600.00 (or more, apparently) for a power supply for a product that costs less than $300.00. Well, that's too bad. I was trying to talk myself into springing for the basic, which I thought was pricey for $200.00. I guess I'm just a cheap %*!@#.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #36 on:** 17 Mar 2006, 08:11 pm »

The last version of the Basic was $260.00. The biggest difference I have heard in the sound of the SB has been to improvements to the power supply. Unfortunately the parts to build such a supply do not come cheap. The amount of labor to build them one by one is rather high.

There are many ways to look at the end price. You can decide that it is not worth the money on a $300.00 product to spend $600.00 for a power supply. You can also compare the sound to a $2500.00 CD player and find that the $900.00 total cost unit sounds better.

Add another $400.00 in mods and it can out perform one box players costing $4000.00.

Which is the worst bargain?

Tweaker · « **Reply #37 on:** 17 Mar 2006, 09:42 pm »

It all gets to be like chasing the carrot on the stick after a while. I'm getting less and less inclined to do that these days. I had not meant to be critical as much as disappointed.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #38 on:** 17 Mar 2006, 10:39 pm »

Tweaker,

I wish I could sell a power supply for less. The parts cost a fair amount and the time to build them is the killer. I looked at outsourcing the construction. If I won't order in 1,000 piece lots, no one wants to talk to me.

Tweaker · « **Reply #39 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 04:21 am »

Wayne,
I've purchased stuff from you in the past, including the power supply for the ART D/IO, and it's always been worth every penny. I doubt the new SB power supply is any exception.