Improved Squeezebox Power Supply

tonyptony · « **Reply #40 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 04:15 pm »

Wayne, I've been following this with some interest in that I've already tried my SB3 with and without a few of the mail order linear supplies. They are certainly better than the small switcher supplied with the unit but (no surprise) does not bring it up to the performance of a high end transport + D/A (I use my SB3 as a digital feed). I plan to do a digital mod as soon as mine is out of warranty, but for the PS I kind of feel like Tweaker in looking at it from a point of diminishing returns. So for those of us who have some skill in building electronics, would you consider offering either the Superior or the Ultimate as a kit? If a lot of the cost is in the labor there might be a number of people like me who would be willing to cover that part of the cost using our own muscle power.

rajacat · « **Reply #41 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 04:44 pm »

The price of AC power supplies seems to keep escalating so why not go for the battery powered option and be finished with it.

zybar · « **Reply #42 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 04:49 pm »

Quote from: rajacat

The price of AC power supplies seems to keep escalating so why not go for the battery powered option and be finished with it.

For a couple of reasons:

1. The battery is limited to how long it will play.
2. You have to remember to charge the battery and not let it play down. If it plays down, it might not charge again and a new battery will have to be purchased.
3. It might not sound better unless you unlug it from all AC lines - in which case you need to remember to plug it back in.

I have owned both and while I agree that for same amount of money the battery can be superior to some AC power supplies, I decided to go AC and sell my battry powered PS.

George

zybar · « **Reply #43 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 04:56 pm »

Quote from: Robert57

Last night Woodsyi invited a couple of us (Den and myself) over to audition the loaner Bolder Ultimate PS, comparing it with his HP lab power supply, using his Bolder full- mod SB2. Thanks, Woodsyi, for your incomparable hospitality and for once again making available your fabulous system for critical listening. This comes on the heels of last Saturday's small gathering at Woodsyi's to compare power conditioners (more on that later), so we had a fairly fresh baseline on a variety of music tracks with which ...

Very nice write-up Robert.

What you described is exactly why I plunked down my money and Wayne is building me an Ultimate PS.

George

Wayne1 · « **Reply #44 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 05:20 pm »

The reason the AC supplies I build are getting more expensive is I keep learning how to make them SOUND better.

If you are satisified with the sort of sound you can get from a battery, great for you. I am not.

I built a supply that used both a very good battery circuit and a good AC circuit. After both had time to settle down we did a comparison. Same regulator and resevoir caps, just switching what fed them. To all that listened, the AC supply sounded BETTER. Deeper, tighter bass. More "air" and transient attack.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=23291

I have improved the sound of that supply quite a bit. The Superior is the current result. It WILL sound better than any battery supply, IMHO.

As in most things, trying to get the last 5% of performance out of a product will raise the cost 500%.

I have thought about "kits" in the past. I have decided not to go that route. The amount of time it would take to write directions and hand hold folks during construction is not cost effective. Half of my day now is answering e-mails and talking on the phone. With kits the time expense on my part would increase quite a bit with no additional monetary compensation.

F-100 · « **Reply #45 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 05:32 pm »

With all due respect to Wayne and his products, I'm not here to put down his product. I've owned some of his cables and they're very good quality.

BUT....
the CEO of SlimDevices had said on his forum that he does not believe by upgrading the power supply will have any affect the sound quality. So who should we believe in?

zybar · « **Reply #46 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 05:49 pm »

Quote from: F-100

With all due respect to Wayne and his products, I'm not here to put down his product. I've owned some of his cables and they're very good quality.

BUT....
the CEO of SlimDevices had said on his forum that he does not believe by upgrading the power supply will have any affect the sound quality. So who should we believe in?

Believe whoever you like.

I have been lucky enough to compare the stock PS, Wayne's Basic PS, and Vinnie's Battery PS.

Both aftermarket PS's were clearly superior to the stock.

Not sure why the SlimDevices CEO feels the way he does...

George

Wayne1 · « **Reply #47 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 06:00 pm »

Believe who you wish. One person who has never listened to the different power supplies offered or dozens of people who HAVE listened and heard a difference.

There are many posts on this forum and on the Slim Devices forum from people who have no vested interest in either the SB or aftermarket PS who consistantly say they find that using a linear power supply sounds better to them on their system than the stock supply.

This past week a group of folks in Washington DC compared a $1500.00 lab grade DC supply to the stock supply and heard a difference. They also heard a difference between the lab supply and the supply I built.

I will have various power supplies and modded SBs at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. All are welcome to attend and hear for themselves.

rajacat · « **Reply #48 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 06:11 pm »

Quote from: zybar

For a couple of reasons:

1. The battery is limited to how long it will play.
2. You have to remember to charge the battery and not let it play down. If it plays down, it might not charge again and a new battery will have to be purchased.
3. It might not sound better unless you unlug it from all AC lines - in which case you need to remember to plug it back in.

I have owned both and while I agree that for same amount of money the battery can be superior to some AC power supplies, I decided to go AC and sell my battry powered PS.

George

Perhaps another option would we to go for the digital mods only and then purchase a battery powered NOS tube dac for clean power and a tube buffer.

zybar · « **Reply #49 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 06:15 pm »

I have the digital only mods and that feeds my modified TacT 2.2x preamp/dac.

George

F-100 · « **Reply #50 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 06:29 pm »

George,
Perhap your system is very revealing and you have a good ear to hear the difference. For an average guy like me who doesn't have a golden ear and an average system, I doubt it if I can hear any difference.

I guess I will have to try it out on my system to see for myselft if it does make a difference.

So Wayne, how can I get on the audition list?

zybar · « **Reply #51 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 06:52 pm »

Quote from: F-100

George,
Perhap your system is very revealing and you have a good ear to hear the difference. For an average guy like me who doesn't have a golden ear and an average system, I doubt it if I can hear any difference.

I guess I will have to try it out on my system to see for myselft if it does make a difference.

So Wayne, how can I get on the audition list?

Why take snipes at me?

When did I claim to have a golden ear?

With you having such a closed mind and bad attitude, why should Wayne bother to send you anything?

George

Wayne1 · « **Reply #52 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 06:58 pm »

At this point in time, there is no audition list.

It was a limited time offer from Double Ugly.

His power supply was slightly damaged by FedEx during shipping to woodsyi.

It is coming back to me for repair and updates. It will then go back home to him in Mississippi.

All other power supplies are customer units that have been sold. I have a two month backlog of orders for the Basic PS that I need to fill before I start building any of the newer "Superior" PS. I already have sold out the first run of those PS.

I do not know if I will have any power supplies to send out on audition before RMAF.

F-100 · « **Reply #53 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 07:04 pm »

Quote from: zybar

Quote from: F-100
George,
Perhap your system is very revealing and you have a good ear to hear the difference. For an average guy like me who doesn't have a golden ear and an average system, I doubt it if I can hear any difference.

I guess I will have to try it out on my system to see for myselft if it does make a difference.

So Wayne, how can I get on the audition list?

Why take snipes at me?

When did I claim to have a golden ear?

With you having such a closed mind and bad attitude, why should Wayne bother to send you anything?

George

Hey!! I'm not take any snipe at you so don't take me wrong now. I'm just making a general comment regarding the difference from using Wayne's power supply vs the comment from the Slim Devices CEO.

What make you think I have bad attitude? Did I ever make any bad comment about you or Wayne?
Get over with it!!!

F-100 · « **Reply #54 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 07:10 pm »

Quote from: Wayne1

At this point in time, there is no audition list.

It was a limited time offer from Double Ugly.

His power supply was slightly damaged by FedEx during shipping to woodsyi.

It is coming back to me for repair and updates. It will then go back home to him in Mississippi.

All other power supplies are customer units that have been sold. I have a two month backlog of orders for the Basic PS that I need to fill before I start building any of the newer "Superior" PS. I already have sold out the first run ...

No problem, Wayne. Maybe sometimes in the future, I'll try to have an opportunity to listen to your power supply. Don't get me wrong now, I'm not putting down your product. Why should I do that when I haven't even heard of your PS. I was ONLY curious about the comment from SlimDevice CEO. That's all!!!!

Wayne1 · « **Reply #55 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 07:10 pm »

Okay, guys.

This is an "official" MELLOW OUT!

I do not want to have to lock this thread or move it to Fight Club.

BTW the first run of the Superior Power Supply is sold out. There will not be another offering for a couple of months. After I finish up the orders for the Basic PS and build the first run of Superior PS, I will post another offering.

zybar · « **Reply #56 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 07:13 pm »

Quote from: Wayne1

Okay, guys.

This is an "official" MELLOW OUT!

I do not want to have to lock this thread or move it to Fight Club.

BTW the first run of the Superior Power Supply is sold out. There will not be another offering for a couple of months. After I finish up the orders for the Basic PS and build the first run of Superior PS, I will post another offering.

Sorry.

George

Turk · « **Reply #57 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 07:22 pm »

Since I am the individual that has PURCHASED both battery and AC versions of Wayne's power supplies along with upgrading as he continues his ongoing testing to find the best, I'll tell you what I think.

Wayne does not offer mods, upgrades or improvements because he wants to increase the price, it's because he is constantly seeking to improve his product.

And when he does, he has others sometimes as many as 5 or 6 individuals with much better than average ears sit right down and offer unbiased comments after extensive listening He doesn't just throw a cap in, raise the price and tell the public this is the latest and greatest.

There have been many times when Wayne asks and is told "no improvement" or "it's a step backwards". When there is a clear sonic improvement and it warrants the cost, I buy and mgalusha often does the same. I pay retail by the way.

While in the process of developing and marketing both a battery and AC version of the SB power supply I choose the battery. I did so because it was quiet and I felt better than the very earliest AC supply I found a bit noisy. Wayne went back and built a supply that was as quiet as batteries, with all the dynamics and bass impact batteries did not provide.

In developing both SB mods and power supply mods one must consider that what was and is a good deal with basic mods is subject to the law of diminishing returns....but make no mistake, Wayne's current SB and power supplies do bring the level of performance into $5K plus range based upon comparisons to Highly moded Denons and Sonys.

Perhaps it is merely evolution. Maybe Wayne's company will continue develop mods that do take it out of the least expensive alternative category. However, at this point, his products now must be compared to those, many of whom are or were audicircle particpants, manufacturers that produce $5k product. On that basis an all out $1.8k Bolder set up looks mighty inviting.

Oh of couse, with most of the modded players ya still got to find room for the 500 cds and get off your ass to change them

tonyptony · « **Reply #58 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 07:52 pm »

Quote from: Wayne1

I have thought about "kits" in the past. I have decided not to go that route. The amount of time it would take to write directions and hand hold folks during construction is not cost effective ...

How about this for a counter offer?

A parts list, a schematic, and an overhead photo of the internals. The buyer expects no support from the Bolder company and takes on the burden of getting the parts and putting it together.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #59 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 08:17 pm »

All of the information you are asking for has been posted on AudioCircle in various circles. Do some searching and you will be rewarded