DAC 60 new thread

crooner · « **Reply #60 on:** 21 Feb 2006, 05:10 am »

Oh man what a "DACamarathon" weekend this was!
I let the unit "cook" for 24 hours (friday evening until saturday evening) and began my critical listening from there.

It seems the output from the DAC-60 is a tad "hotter" than the SB3, meaning it sounds around 3dB louder. Not necessary a bad thing, but easy to fool the ear into hearing "improvements" in sound.

That said, I found the greatest improvement in the ever important midrange (good news!). Voices were more relaxed and laid back with a nice texture around them. Not overly crisp though, but more like a real human voice than a recording. I could easily detect when a singer would move in and out of the microphone. Microphone "wind" effects also quite apparent.

I also found that I could discern small volume variations in voice and instruments. Less compression so to speak.

Highs appeared to be quite soft at first, but after running the unit for 24 hours they started to open up. Still, the presentation is on the soft side. Nice to complement "bright" electronics.

Detail was quite good. I could clearly hear footsteps and other noises in the background, not just on live recordings. I could clearly detect the air conditioning rumble on Telarc's Carmen Suite (1979 recording).

In fact the thing was so detailed that I was hearing stomping and other sounds in many familiar recordings. Low end response is excellent.

Imaging was about the same as the SB3's internal DAC, though I still need to concentrate more on evaluating this....

So far so good. Definitely an upgrade from the Squeezebox's DAC. Well worth the $470.

More later....

MarkM · « **Reply #61 on:** 21 Feb 2006, 05:11 am »

Quote from: Loftprojection

Soooo Crooner, was it a nice weekend? Is the DAC nice or what? We are impatient you know! haha

I have had my DAC for a couple of days. In stock form, IMHO, it is a tremendous value.

This thing makes me want to go through my CD collection. My initial take is good detail, bass and very musical.

I only have a day or two of burn in, so it has a ways to go.

Next weekend I will upgrade the coupling caps, install a new rectifier bridge in the power supply and upgrade the power supply filter caps.

Will try to capture how the mods effect the sound.

crooner · « **Reply #62 on:** 21 Feb 2006, 06:37 am »

I agree, it's definitely musical.

It's quite amazing to appreciate how good 44.1 kHz, 16 bit PCM has become. Unthinkable just a decade ago.

With really good recordings, the sound is so involving it reminds me of my treasured LPs.

As a matter of fact, I have a few of my better records transferred to FLAC, and to my tin ears they sound very convincing!

crooner · « **Reply #63 on:** 21 Feb 2006, 06:41 am »

By they way, the DAC-60 gives you the option of switching between optical and coax inputs. I figured I could buy a toslink cable and connect it to my Denon's optical output.

This way I can switch back and forth between the Squeezebox on coax and the Denon on optical. I can even do AB comparisons playing identical material. As an added bonus, my Classic Records DADs that output on 96 kHz can be processed by the DAC60 for improved sonics.

MarkM · « **Reply #64 on:** 21 Feb 2006, 02:21 pm »

I currently have a Yamaha changer hooked up via optical and Denon 2910 coaxial. Hard to tell the difference between the two players.

I agree Crooner Redbook @ 44.1khz really sounds wonderful on this DAC, makes me forget about the hi rez formats. Perhaps I will sell my Denon player to fund PC audio.

I can't get over how this thing sounds in stock form. For $470, the build quality and parts are outstanding. So, with a few basic mods, perhaps a tad more resolution will be squeezed out of it, but not necessary imo.

DAC's have come a lonnnng ways since my first Audio Alchemy DITB, with the "upgraded" walwart power supply.

(my youngest brother still uses it, lifetime college student he is)

elnero · « **Reply #65 on:** 21 Feb 2006, 02:34 pm »

So have any of the new owners checked to verify that the DAC chips are indeed marked as the K version?

crooner · « **Reply #66 on:** 21 Feb 2006, 11:10 pm »

Quote from: elnero

So have any of the new owners checked to verify that the DAC chips are indeed marked as the K version?

Mine has the DAC chips marked with the two white dots Danny was talking about.

I guess Texas Instruments (owner of Burr Brown) can be contacted to confirm this.

tigzstudio · « **Reply #67 on:** 21 Feb 2006, 11:41 pm »

Has anyone had a listen or been able to compare the stock to the sonic craft modded DAC-60 recently?

crooner · « **Reply #68 on:** 22 Feb 2006, 12:32 am »

Quote

DAC's have come a lonnnng ways since my first Audio Alchemy DITB, with the "upgraded" walwart power supply. sm_lyellow.gif (my youngest brother still uses it, lifetime college student he is)

Yeah, I remember when those came out back in '94. It made it on the cover of Stereophile magazine. I still have that issue somewhere...

The small chassis with external wal-wart idea came from them. Later Creek and Musical Fidelity entered the scene. Now we have Channel Islands.

Nothing like a traditional full chassis DAC. No external "premium" power supplies to buy. Nice thick faceplate. I am glad I didn't get a tiny box!

smk5r · « **Reply #69 on:** 22 Feb 2006, 03:13 am »

As you may be able to tell by the length, this is not, nor is it meant to be, an exhaustive review. Rather, the following are my exhortations for any of you sitting on the fence to give the DAC60 a go.

I've now had a Sonic Craft modded DAC60 in my system for approximately a week. The system consits of the the following chain:
Onix CD2 and SB3->P1a with SOCS for Onix Ref3s->Liteaudio DAC60 Sonic Craft mods->WooAudio WA2 preamp->Emotiva MPS-1->Onix Ref3s and UFW12. The DAC60 replaced a stock P3a and I've never looked back.

It simply does music justice--bettering the stock P3a in practially all of the traditional descriptions/euphemisms of audiophilia. The most notable, and arguably the most relevant, is musicality. In fact, this is precisely the reason why this post has been so difficult to write. I'm listening right now and the toe tapping is very distracting. Furthermore, I find myself thouroughly enjoying music I originally found mediocre. Is this possible--it doesn't matter becasue this is precisely what is happening...

The other surprise has been the girth and slam of bass. I've turned off my UFW12 and the bass is simply jaw dropping. Really, wow!

Another aspect of note is the lack of sibliance accompanied by the accurate protrayal of higher frequencies to enable detail to be communicated and enjoyed. This adds a great amount of depth to the soundstage. Simply, highs are so controlled yet effortless as to, I believe, provide a justified comparison to vinyl.

Imaging is good, but in my system did not exceed to a noticable degree the stock P3a's.

And finally, the all important midrange. Maybe here is where the musicality was originating, simply, I can not imagine better. This is the DAC60's strength amongst strengths.

I have yet to experience a fault with the DAC60, and for the investment this is most notable.

I hope this is helpful and for the modicum of investment and the possibility of mods make this an audiophile exprience worthy of pursuit.

-smk5r

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #70 on:** 22 Feb 2006, 03:46 am »

smk5r:
Still waiting for my DAC-60 with the sonic craft mods to get here. I'm not surprised about your praise of the DAC-60 with sonic craft mods. Danny does not handle or sell audio crap. Enjoy the music!!

Cheers
Charlie

Dr. Krull · « **Reply #71 on:** 22 Feb 2006, 04:06 am »

Quote from: crooner

Yeah, I remember when those came out back in '94. It made it on the cover of Stereophile magazine. I still have that issue somewhere...

The small chassis with external wal-wart idea came from them. Later Creek and Musical Fidelity entered the scene. Now we have Channel Islands.

Dusty Vawter and Greg Schug have been building equipment for longer than you might imagine. Prior to Audio Alchemy they built OEM electronics for Vandersteen and others.

-Krull

crooner · « **Reply #72 on:** 22 Feb 2006, 04:44 am »

Yeah, I read in an interview they started with Dynakits and Heathkits like many other audio guys.

Quote from: Dr. Krull

Dusty Vawter and Greg Schug have been building equipment for longer than you might imagine. Prior to Audio Alchemy they built OEM electronics for Vandersteen and others.

-Krull

crooner · « **Reply #73 on:** 22 Feb 2006, 04:50 am »

smk5r: thanks for the review!

I am glad to find a lot of similarities with mine. Your modded unit has probably increased resolution but the sonic character of the DAC60 has remained. Hence the similarities with my comments.

I have been listening to a lot of material tonight. A FLAC rip of MFSL's reissue of Queen's The Game has been a revelation. I thought this recording was dark with limited resolution. Well I was wrong!

I could clearly discern all the different vocals going on a given track, along with small studio chatter and noise. Cymbals sounded like the real deal. Amazing!

And I completely agree, bass performance is incredible. Very deep but tuneful.

Regards,
crooner

smk5r · « **Reply #74 on:** 22 Feb 2006, 03:49 pm »

Crooner,

To echo your comments, the best surprise of the DAC60 has been rediscovering music I originally discarded. I find myself just putting down the CDP remote and actually listening to entire CDs--for me that's a first! Now if there were only a way to translate that to watching TV, my family would be greatful...

As an aside, if there is anyone out there who happens to have a modded P3a (EA or Modwright) and has or is getting a DAC60, I'd appreciate the comparison.

-smk5r

machine · « **Reply #75 on:** 22 Feb 2006, 04:18 pm »

Seems like alot of people are interested in this comparison.

This is what I posted in the original thread.

---------------------
Finally got my DAC-60 with Sonicraft mods.

My take on this so far...

Build Quality
Build like a tank. No jumper wires, etc. Heavy duty.

Mod Quality
Couldn't even tell unit was modified, all work clean and professional. Thats one big BlackGate capacitor, even too big to fit on the board so it was mounted next to it!

Sound Quality
System setup: Computer FLAC(Foobar2000)->(Coax)Perpetual P-1a with SOCS->(Coax)DAC-60->Onix A-120 w/ModWright mods->Onix Ref 3.

This was compared against my Perpetual P-3a w/ModWright Level II mods hooked up to the P-1a via I2S. Unsing the A-120 I could switch between them.

Seemed to take a little while for the DAC-60 to warm up before it would output (30 seconds?).

From my unscientific testing it seems that the DAC-60 had slightly better detail and blackness.

There was a slight volume difference, and the wife was too pissed about me getting more stereo stuff to help me try to at least do it blind (have her set it up and switch it without me knowing what I was listening to).

Hopefully, getting her something nice for Valentines day will persuade her to help me out.

It's hard to make judgements when you know which one is which. Always want the "new" one to be better. My lack of experience in these matters dosen't help either.

Right now I prefer the DAC-60. I'm going to break it in some more and see what happens. Also, when I have time I will take the P-1a(SOCS and interpolation) out of the loop and just compare the two dacs.

Anyone from the Chicagoland area interested in hearing it let me know.
-------------------------

I've been running THE DAC-60 24/7 for a while now.

I switch my room around and hooked my ONIX H34 tube amp up.

I will try and find time this weekend to compare these DACs with the H34 and A-120 in the new room configuration.

Anyone from the Chicagoland area interested in hearing it let me know.

I don't have a 'Golden Ear', but will give you my 2 cents worth.

Switched to using Coax digital from the front connector of my X-Fi card. Running this 25', so I might move the stuff closer to the computer and get longer speaker cables. Anyone think this would be a sonic improvement?

erlebo · « **Reply #76 on:** 22 Feb 2006, 05:33 pm »

Danny,

How likely now is it that the USB version of the DAC-60 will be made?

Would this input replace one or both of the other inputs, or be a third one?

I'm buying a DAC-60 and can use S/PDIF, but I'd rather wait for USB if you have an estimate for how long it will take.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #77 on:** 22 Feb 2006, 05:58 pm »

Quote

How likely now is it that the USB version of the DAC-60 will be made?

It will be made.

Quote

Would this input replace one or both of the other inputs, or be a third one?

I don't know for sure. It is out of my hands, and I do not know how long it will take.

elnero · « **Reply #78 on:** 24 Feb 2006, 03:23 pm »

I would still like to hear more impressions especially in regards to the stock model and experiences people have had with tuberolling it.

Also, is there any word on the run of black chassis models?

sl_1800 · « **Reply #79 on:** 25 Feb 2006, 02:42 pm »

elnero has a good question.............how about black???