Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?

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TjMV3

Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« on: 17 Jan 2006, 05:25 pm »
Hi guys.

Does anyone have some pictures of the back of either the OmegaStar 440EX,  The Fet Valve 550 EXR,  or the Fet Valve 350 EXR?    I suppose any of the AVA amps would do,  as long as it's the same as what the current amps use.  

I need to see what the binding posts and RCA inputs look like.  

I searched the website over,  and I can't find a picture of the binding posts and RCA.

Thank you.

avahifi

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Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #1 on: 17 Jan 2006, 05:39 pm »
The output binding posts are standard gold plated 5-way binding posts on 3/4 inch centers so that double banana plugs (strongly recommended) will fit.  The hots are in the center of the grouping so that a single double banana plug can be used in a bridged mono application.  The input jacks are heavy duty gold plated panel mount RCA jacks.

We do not use output terminals with metal parts exposed as this can be a leathal electrical issue for small children.  At full power the amp can have about half of AC power line voltage swing at these terminals.  Having metal binding posts here is absolutely irresponsible.

We do not use excessively priced audiophlake "good sounding" input or output terminals.  The good sound is in the circuit design and execution, not in vastly overpriced foo foo dust accessories.  The foo foo dust comes from those that cannot do the good electrical engineering in the first place, snake oil is much easier to produce and sell.

Frank Van Alstine

TjMV3

Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #2 on: 17 Jan 2006, 10:01 pm »
I don't know much about this stuff.  I was simply asking because I wanted to make sure there was the option to use spades or bananas at the same time,  if I ever decide to give bi-wiring a try.


Also,  I ran into a problem with one of my first amps,  where the RCA inputs were too recessed and my interconnect would not insert all the way in.   The lip simply didn't stick out far enough.  

I don't know a whole lot about a lot of this stuff with this hobby,  but I'm not much for the snakeoil and magic pixie dust nonsense.  Room acoustic treatments  and entertaining the though of possibly giving bi-wiring a try,  is about as far as I've gone.

I would still like to see some pics, though.

I don't believe I ever seen a "Double Banana Plug".   What is that?  Where could I see one?

Thank you.

avahifi

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Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #3 on: 18 Jan 2006, 03:30 pm »
Check out the lowest item on this page, note that they come in a variety of colors.

http://www.pomonaelectronics.com/index.php?i=prodsub&parent=HWARE&cat=BANANAPLGJCK&getDetails=0

Frank Van Alstine

skrivis

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Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #4 on: 18 Jan 2006, 05:29 pm »
Quote from: avahifi
Check out the lowest item on this page, note that they come in a variety of colors.

http://www.pomonaelectronics.com/index.php?i=prodsub&parent=HWARE&cat=BANANAPLGJCK&getDetails=0

Frank Van Alstine


You can get dual 'nana plugs at Parts Express. Examples include:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=090-466

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=091-332

Note that the 12 Ga. ones are safer because they don't have exposed metal while in use.

WEEZ

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Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #5 on: 19 Jan 2006, 04:01 am »
Do the posts come 'off' on AVA amps?- so as to use ring terminals?

(just wondering....)

WEEZ

avahifi

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Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #6 on: 19 Jan 2006, 02:25 pm »
You can probably force off the screw down end caps on our speaker binding posts if you use a pipe wrench carefully.   :o

However, when you bung in, you pay for it.

Ever heard of anyone using a pipe wrench carefully?   :P

FVA

WEEZ

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Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #7 on: 19 Jan 2006, 11:12 pm »
..so, ring lugs are out of the question.  :|

Sounds like with 3/4" centers, even spade lugs could be a problem....so are bananna plugs superior? Never heard that before.. :?

WEEZ

warnerwh

Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #8 on: 20 Jan 2006, 04:21 am »
WEEZ:  3/4" spacing is almost a standard. Works fine for spades or bananas.  If you use bananas use the Z type bananas like the ones Knukonceptz sells on Ebay. They're like 12 bucks shipped for a set of 4 but fit very snugly unlike standard bananas. Using either good bananas or spades doesn't matter as long as you get a good connection so it can't oxidize or fall out easily.

There's many good sources for heavy duty spade lugs. I don't care for the kind that will bend with just finger power myself and have bought Luminous spades from a guy on Audiogon. They're about 10 bucks for a set of four shipped.  Parts Express sells a variety of connectors also.  If my binding posts had holes in them I'd just have tinned the wire and cranked the nut down on it.  

Another good tweak I just read on a thread over at AA is to put a jar of brilliant pebbles on your bass traps, it makes them more effective! :o

WEEZ

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Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #9 on: 20 Jan 2006, 06:07 pm »
:lol: ...well, I don't know about the brilliant pebbles...

I had just never heard that bananna plugs were considered superior to spade lugs or ring lugs. I suppose they're convenient, though.

I've seen the WBT expanding banannas- but they would cost more than my speaker wires  :oops:

WEEZ

bubba966

Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #10 on: 20 Jan 2006, 06:25 pm »
Weez, if you want something that (in my experience) works like a banana plug, but better try the Eichmann Bayonet plugs.



The "problem" with most/all bananas is the brass in them. Even the super spendy WBT's have a decent amount of brass in them. So the Bayonets have a much greater conductivity than your standard banana plug (they claim 320% better conductivity)

What's the great thing about banana's over spades is that the binding post doesn't loosen itself over time and allow the banana to come out like happens with spades. Having to retighten all of your speaker connections frequently is annoying...

avahifi

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Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #11 on: 20 Jan 2006, 06:30 pm »
These look just fine.  The question is how much and where do you get them?

And - are the color coded so you can tell hot from ground easily.

What gauge wires will they accept?

Web address for the maker?

Frank Van Alstine

warnerwh

Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #12 on: 20 Jan 2006, 06:39 pm »
Try these bananas, there's actually more contact area than a spade and they fit tight and are inexpensive:

http://cgi.ebay.com/KnuKonceptz-BFA-type-Banana-Plugs-4-8awg-Speaker-Wire_W0QQitemZ5853524546QQcategoryZ32838QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I would rate these as good as spades.

bubba966

Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #13 on: 20 Jan 2006, 06:43 pm »
Here's the web address of Eichmann. http://www.eichmanncables.com/bayonet_plug/index.html

Yes, they're color coded.

You should be able to get them from any Eichmann dealer. Percy Audio, VH Audio, are two places I can recall seeing them offhand.

I think they're about $12 a piece for the copper versions, and about 3x that for the solid silver versions. Yes, that makes the plugs for one set of speaker cables come to about $100. But very worth it IMO as the connection is one of the most important parts of the signal. That matters much more than any fancy wire or other such stuff.

Sorry I don't know offhand what gauge wires they accept.

avahifi

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Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #14 on: 20 Jan 2006, 11:28 pm »
Whoops, sorry, after glancing over the written material at the Eichmann web site, I cannot recommend these banana plugs.  Not when Pamona double banana plugs are inexpensive and ard good enough for real science labs all over the world.

Frank Van Alstine

konut

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Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #15 on: 20 Jan 2006, 11:55 pm »
Quote from: avahifi
Whoops, sorry, after glancing over the written material at the Eichmann web site, I cannot recommend these banana plugs.  Not when Pamona double banana plugs are inexpensive and ard good enough for real science labs all over the world.

Frank Van Alstine


Since when are audiophiles interested in real science?  :roll:

samplesj

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Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #16 on: 21 Jan 2006, 03:53 pm »
Quote from: avahifi
Whoops, sorry, after glancing over the written material at the Eichmann web site, I cannot recommend these banana plugs.  Not when Pamona double banana plugs are inexpensive and ard good enough for real science labs all over the world.

Frank Van Alstine


Do you disagree with their minimal metal theories for the bayonet/bullet plugs or was it the weird stuff like their topper that got to you?

WBT jumped on the bandwagon too by cloning some of their minimal metal ideas with their NextGen connectors (even more $ than bullet plugs).

avahifi

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Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #17 on: 21 Jan 2006, 08:19 pm »
When we get into theories that are in my book beyond good science, I start to back away fast fast fast.

A Pomona banana plug will handle a lot more current than your speakers can take or your amplifier can produce, and do it reliabily and long term and for a low cost.

Why oh why do all these guys have to take something simple and economical and turn it into some gee whiz Buck Rogers thing, Science Fiction and all?

I can just imagine what a kitchen toaster would look like (and cost) if it got the same treatment.

Nobody has achieved the electrical engineering of getting an audio circuit to  perform really perfectly inside the fancy box of yours in the first place.  This expensive obsession with frivolous accessories is much like worrying about whether your hub caps should be gold or platinum when you have 5 fouled spark plugs, the other 3 missing, and a hole in a piston.

Oh yes, in the last statement above I am refering to an automobile engine, not something new designed to power a 33 rpm turntable.

Frank Van Alstine

tonyptony

Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?
« Reply #18 on: 22 Jan 2006, 07:46 pm »
Frank, back to a more conventional issue: is there a reason why the FetValve amps do not support balanced inputs?

Tom

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Binding Posts & RCA Jacks on AVA Amps
« Reply #19 on: 22 Jan 2006, 09:23 pm »
In the '90s, when I had my FET-Valve amps powering the B&W 801II with Van Alstine crossover mods (either bridged with the FET-Valve bridge or passively vertically bi-amped), the best sounding speaker cable connection, bar none, was the Pomona dual banana plugs Frank is recommending, used with ordinary Radio Shack 16-gauge lamp cord.

I tried a number of other methods (spades, bare wire, tinned wire, pins) and wires (MIT, StraightWire, AudioQuest).  For awhile I even tried what I thought had to be the ultimate:  I bypassed the stock binding posts of the speakers and soldered the very pricey WBT expanding/locking banana plugs directly to the internal van den Hul silver wire which went from the crossover to the inside of the speaker's binding posts.  I then pulled those outside the cabinet to the FET-Valves which were butted up against the back of the speakers--the internal wiring was plenty long enough--and plugged the WBTs into the amps.

But you know what?  In the end, the Pomona/Radio Shack wire just sounded better, hands down.  Perhaps that's because it was the way Frank used the speakers when he voiced the FET-Valves of that era.

What cables and connections are you using these days, Frank?  From what you've said, I take it that you may still be using the Pomonas.