Binding Posts and RCA Jacks On AVA Amps?

avahifi · « **Reply #20 on:** 23 Jan 2006, 12:35 am »

Ahhhh --- we do not "voice" our equipment, assuming that "voicing" is tweaking the frequency response and or distortion products to produce some kind of a "sound" that we like, or that we think that you might like. This concept is saying add some kind of coloration please. Unfortunately, that coloration is simply some kind of distortion. We are not great chefs, trying to present you with flavors you will love, we are simply trying to serve up the main dish with no seasoning at all. You can add as much salt and pepper and whatever as you would like.

We are simply trying to build equipment that is faithful to the spirit of the music and can reach far into the source material and pull out the emotion and talent of the musicians in a way not usually possible.

That is of course our issue with class D switching amplifiers. They get all of the notes perfect, but none of the music.

Frank Van Alstine

WEEZ · « **Reply #21 on:** 23 Jan 2006, 02:26 am »

...well, voicing, or no voicing; radio shack wire or gonzo wire; I'd still like to hear an explanation as to why bananna connectors are superior to ring lugs or spade lugs.

As an example.. my speakers have the Cardas patented binding posts that accept spades or ring lugs. They are the most reliable connector posts I have ever experienced in my 30+ years in this hobby. Never have they allowed the lugs to come loose or need tightening.

I've seen these posts on only one amplifier so far- (but I've seen the separate Cardas posts), or similar.

Maybe my less than good experience with bannana plugs has nothing to do with the plugs- but with the binding posts? (the plastic nuts wont stay tight, in my experience)

Explain away, y'all....

WEEZ

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #22 on:** 23 Jan 2006, 08:45 am »

Quote from: avahifi

I can just imagine what a kitchen toaster would look like (and cost) if it got the same treatment.

[/list:u]

avahifi · « **Reply #23 on:** 23 Jan 2006, 03:56 pm »

We recommend Pomona double banana plugs because they are inexpensive, make good contact, are really easy to use, and are safe and reliable.

You have to see amplifiers returned for service because somebody had used a pipe wrench to tighten gonzo oversized spade lugs and broken the connector completely off. That is not something makes us love overpriced magic audiophlake connectors of any shape or size.

They are just out to get lots of your money. Don't you understand!

Frank Van Alstine

skrivis · « **Reply #24 on:** 23 Jan 2006, 05:02 pm »

Quote from: avahifi

Whoops, sorry, after glancing over the written material at the Eichmann web site, I cannot recommend these banana plugs. Not when Pamona double banana plugs are inexpensive and ard good enough for real science labs all over the world.

Frank Van Alstine

Yeah, you hear of all sorts of odd stuff with "better sounding" parts and wire, but I've never seen an engineer say they use the same tweaks on their test equipment.

skrivis · « **Reply #25 on:** 23 Jan 2006, 05:10 pm »

Quote from: avahifi

We recommend Pomona double banana plugs because they are inexpensive, make good contact, are really easy to use, and are safe and reliable.

You have to see amplifiers returned for service because somebody had used a pipe wrench to tighten gonzo oversized spade lugs and broken the connector completely off. That is not something makes us love overpriced magic audiophlake connectors of any shape or size.

They are just out to get lots of your money. Don't you understand!

Frank Van Alstine

There are places in audio where there are real problems. Then there are places where the problems are adequately solved.

The snake oil vendors hardly ever work on the real problems...

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #26 on:** 23 Jan 2006, 05:17 pm »

Yo Frank!!
I think I've finally got it all figured out.
You are a member of the K.I.S.S. society.
Or
"Keep it simple stupid"
Me too! Also I follow the golden rule.
"If it's not broken don't try to fix it"

Hey!!
"Buy high. Sell low. Or give it away"

Cheers
Charlie

P.S.
Sure do like my T7ECR preamp. Great product.

skrivis · « **Reply #27 on:** 23 Jan 2006, 05:25 pm »

Quote from: WEEZ

...well, I don't know about the brilliant pebbles...

I had just never heard that bananna plugs were considered superior to spade lugs or ring lugs. I suppose they're convenient, though.

I've seen the WBT expanding banannas- but they would cost more than my speaker wires

WEEZ

That guy who sells boxes of rocks, microwave tweeters, and quantum CD cleaners sure has a lot of nerve.

Banana plugs are more convenient. They aren't significantly superior or inferior for use with audio amps or speakers.

The only real reasons you'd choose a typical spade or ring lug over a banana is: 1. it won't be pulled out or vibrated out as easily. Not really an issue with home audio.

2. It's less expensive, especially because you can use a plain screw terminal. Bare wire is even less expensive.

skrivis · « **Reply #28 on:** 23 Jan 2006, 05:27 pm »

Quote from: Charles Calkins

Yo Frank!!
I think I've finally got it all figured out.
You are a member of the K.I.S.S. society.
Or
"Keep it simple stupid"

That was the first thing I learned in my "Fortran for Engineers" course. He wrote in in 2' high block caps on the board.

TjMV3 · « **Reply #29 on:** 23 Jan 2006, 07:42 pm »

Quote from: avahifi

They are just out to get lots of your money. Don't you understand!

Frank Van Alstine

Absolutely.

There's a cable maker who list the different kinds of copper on their website....

" TPC (Tough Pitch Copper)

OFC (Oxygen Free Copper)

LC-OFC (Linear Crystal Oxygen Free Copper)

PCOCC (Pure Copper by Ohno Continuous Casting) "

.......and claim that their cables (made of PCOCC) are superior because there is less grain boundries, so the signal flows smoothly and without any disruptions. Sort of like a bicycle tire rolling along over paved sidewalk squares and thumping or jolting over the seams that seperate the sidewalk squares.

As far as I know, signals traveling along the cable conducter do not travel the same way or encounter the same physics that a bicycle tire would, traveling over a sidewalk. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but is this not a concern whatsoever for signals traveling along the conductor?

tonyptony · « **Reply #30 on:** 23 Jan 2006, 10:18 pm »

Unless I missed it I did not see an answer to my post from earlier:

Why is balanced input not offered for the FetValve amps?

avahifi · « **Reply #31 on:** 24 Jan 2006, 04:25 pm »

answer to the last question above.

BECAUSE !!

FVA

ohenry · « **Reply #32 on:** 24 Jan 2006, 05:30 pm »

Another inexpensive banana (<$2 each) not mentioned is the Mouser 174-5791 (black) and 174-5795 (red). They grip well and have a large solder bucket.
http://www.mouser.com//catalog/specsheets/KC-300067.pdf
I got turned on to them by this guy:
http://www.padrick.net/Hi-Fi/Hi-FiTips.htm

Russellcc · « **Reply #33 on:** 4 Feb 2006, 06:02 pm »

Quote from: Tom

In the '90s, when I had my FET-Valve amps powering the B&W 801II with Van Alstine crossover mods (either bridged with the FET-Valve bridge or passively vertically bi-amped), the best sounding speaker cable connection, bar none, was the Pomona dual banana plugs Frank is recommending, used with ordinary Radio Shack 16-gauge lamp cord.

I tried a number of other methods (spades, bare wire, tinned wire, pins) and wires (MIT, StraightWire, AudioQuest). For awhile I even tried what I thought had to be the ulti ...

I also went through the 15 buck a foot speaker cable ( and higher) in the late 90s, then when I needed almost 20 ft runs, tried radioshack 16 gauge (flat with clear insulation) and radioshack interconnects. I was surprised at how good it did sound...BUT, as time went buy, the copper in the 16 ga. cables darkened, turned green, then black, which was also accompanied by less good sound. My expensive cables, now 10-15 years later, are still nice and bright copper colored. I have also done a DIY cat 5 cable (terminated with the mentioned pamona plugs) for the last several years (plenum version with teflon insulation) that was as cheap as the radioshack, but I had to put it together. It hasnt darkened at all either. My opinion is that the high price spread CAN be much superior, but to a point. I will go beyond zip wire and RS, ( oxegen free copper and teflon insulation) but I do get tickled at 2500 dollar interconnects and 8000 dollar 6 ft speaker cables. It is just a question of where you "draw the line", here, or here?

Russellc

Russellcc

ricmon · « **Reply #34 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 12:56 pm »

Quote from: Russellcc

I also went through the 15 buck a foot speaker cable ( and higher) in the late 90s, then when I needed almost 20 ft runs, tried radioshack 16 gauge (flat with clear insulation) and radioshack interconnects. I was surprised at how good it did sound...BUT, as time went buy, the copper in the 16 ga. cables darkened, turned green, then black, which was also accompanied by less good sound. My expensive cables, now 10-15 years later, are still nice and bright copper colored. I have also done a DIY cat 5 cable ...

There always seem to be one thing missing when the wire debate raises it ugly head. And that is the discipline of material science. There is something to be said, measured, and heard from different materials (copper, silver or what ever).

TomW16 · « **Reply #35 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 05:59 pm »

The wire issue (interconnects and/or speaker cable) seems to put listeners into two different and opposing camps:

1. Wire makes no difference to the sound
2. Wire makes a difference to the sound

I read an article that clarified things for me quite a few years ago. It was written by Jim Hayward who is an electrical engineer in the telecommunication industry and he explained why some people hear differences between wires and others do not. To oversimplify his conclusion, it is actually the interaction between the components (impedences) and the wire's properties (identified by inductance, capacitance and resistance) that can affect the sound.

If the components are designed properly, as AVA equipment is, any resonable wire will get the job done without affecting frequencies within the human hearing range (and much above that range too). If, however, the components' impedences are mismatched as can happen with tube components and passive preamps, the wire can have an effect on the sound.

In short, ensure that your electronics' impedences are appropriate and then get low capacitance interconnects and low inductance speaker cables then just sit back and enjoy the music.

Cheers,
Tom

avahifi · « **Reply #36 on:** 10 Feb 2006, 08:59 pm »

Absolutely correct TomW16.

Frank Van Alstine

robinje · « **Reply #37 on:** 23 Feb 2006, 02:59 pm »

In anticipation of receiving my new AVA Ultra 350 amp, I am putting together a set of home brew speaker cables. I am terminating the speaker ends with ring lugs from an auto parts store (crimped and soldered to Belden wire). I have some BFA banana plugs and some spades available to use for the amp end. If I decide to use the bananas, will the "BFA" variety fit nicely into the AVA binding posts? Since I have both spades and the bananas available, is there a preference to use either one? I don't mean to spark controversy here, but please let me know if you have a preference and why. Thanks!

avahifi · « **Reply #38 on:** 23 Feb 2006, 03:05 pm »

The connections on all AVA amplifiers are standard gold plated 5-way binding posts.

We much prefer banana plug terminations on your speaker wires, Pomona double banana plugs are the best. Spade lugs can often be bad news. Some are gonzo oversized and don't fit well, can short together, and we have had clients actually break the binding posts off trying to tighten the gonzo spade lugs (one idiot even did it twice!)

Frank Van Alstine

Toka · « **Reply #39 on:** 27 Jul 2006, 03:49 pm »

Not trying to kick up a bees nest here, but I have a question concerning the gold-plated jacks...I've been doing a lot of reading on the subject (wish I kept my material science books from college...), and what some people say is that gold plating (with nickel sub-plate) is a bad idea when compared to silver/rhodium plating (concerning conductivity). Of course, this may fall into the realm of skin effect/slew rate/5,000 other 'really important' things that have no impact whatsoever when it comes to home audio...but I just wanted to throw that out there all the same. Any input would be greatly appreciated.