Your Thoughts: McCormack DNA 500 Vs. Spectron Musician III

audiophile39 · « **on:** 26 Dec 2005, 03:39 pm »

Hi, I'm building a 2-channel system for a relatively modest listening space of 15'x15'. I haven't decided on a speaker yet, although I like low bass response and will likely go with a modest-size floor-standing speaker. I listen mostly to jazz, rock, and vocals, but not at ear-piercing levels. In my research, I've become interested in the McCormack DNA 500 and "intrigued" with the Spectron Musician III. Both amps are 500 watts and both highly regarded. However, the DNA 500 weighs much more than the Musician, and is much larger, too, which are considerations for me. The DNA 500 is also more expensive. Perhaps the DNA 500 is more reliable, too. I have yet to audition either unit so I hope you can offer some advice on your preference between the two amps. Also, do I really need 500 watts if my speaker is likely to be one which does not require massive watts and if I listen at fairly modest levels? Thanks for your advice!

zybar · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 Dec 2005, 03:49 pm »

I wouldn't get hung up on the 500 watts aspect unless your speakers are inefficient AND you have a fairly big room AND you listen at loud levels.

I have never heard the Musician III, but I have heard a large number of digital amps and I haven't heard one yet that was close to the DNA-500 in its performance across the board.

From what you are describing, you might also be a candidate for CI D200 amps.

Best of luck and try to get whatever is on your short list in for an audition once you pick your speakers.

George

_scotty_ · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 Dec 2005, 04:42 pm »

The two amps you are considering should sound so different from one another that a comparision between the two would be an apples to oranges affair. Auditioning both and picking your poison would be the best course.
I agree with zybar on the power issue, you may not need 500watts to do the job and there are less powerful amplifiers that may work as well in your system.
Scotty

ekovalsky · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 Dec 2005, 06:32 pm »

In a 15' x 15' space, I'd focus more on room correction than watts. Otherwise you'll have some major frequency response problems at about 38 and 76hz. Unless the speakers are extremely low efficiency (i.e. MBL or Apogee) the more common 200-250w range should more than adequate. In my 14.5' x 17' room I doubt I frequency use more than 10% of my amps' potential power, except in the bass where I have implented a good amount of room correction/EQ. My main channels are medium efficiency, rated at 90dB/2.83v.

ScottMayo · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 Dec 2005, 08:46 pm »

I've heard the Spectron. Look into the DNA.

500w in a 15x15' room? What the other guys said: you shouldn't need this, and you need to consider how you are going to deal with the room modes in that space.

Biased* suggestion: maybe consider a Nuforce or a Bryston. My room is almost 4 times your volume, I have speakers of fairly average efficiency and my 300w/channel amp doesn't get turned up past about 65%, ever. There are 30W amps that could probably give you everything you need, unless your speakers are real bears to drive.

(*Standard caveat: I'm arranging to be a Nuforce dealer.)

JoshK · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 Dec 2005, 09:13 pm »

I owned the Musician II and I currently have hypex based amps. The hypex are clearly superior. I have heard that the III is much better than the II, but it would need to be. I haven't heard the DNA, but I expect it is probably quite good.

I think it comes down to what you like. Try to audition them together in your system if you can.

topround · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 Dec 2005, 09:36 pm »

I've owned the DNA 0.5 Deluxe which I loved. Unfortunately I sold it to a guy who asked me when I sold it to him," Are you sure you want to sell this?"
He was right I shouldn't have sold it. Very natural and musical. In short it seemed to project music with little effort, yielding a very clean and quiet signal. awesome bass control and sweet highs.
The Dna 500 must be a monster. My DNA 0.5 with 100 watts drove my Epos speakers easily. I want a Lamborghini but I probably wouldn't drive faster than 120 mph.

ekovalsky · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Dec 2005, 09:44 pm »

Although I haven't heard the DNA500 myself, based on what George and others have said it is an exception amp regardless of its power output. So if it is in your budget, it still may be worth considering even though you'll probably never use 90% of its available watts. Ditto for the Belles Reference series.

If you only need one stereo amp for your speakers, another interesting option would be the TacT 2150X, which has 150/300 watts (8/4 ohms) and built in room correction. Now the stock TacT amp will not perform at the same level of the McCormack or Belles, or other top solid state amps, though it is quite good when fed a clean digital signal. But its faults, mainly a touch of grain in the top octaves and some leanness lower down, maybe some less than optimal PRAT -- can be overcome with straightforward modifications. Fully modded the 2150 performs at an exceptional level. The mods are not terribly expensive and can be more than offset by the money that otherwise would be needed for preamp and DAC. The man behind the mods, Anthony Padilla, stands behind his work 110% -- you get a money back guarantee, full factory warranty coverage, and a detailed list of exactly what work is done. And if he improves the mods later on, he'll generally update at no charge. Can't ask for much more than that.

I'm not a dealer for TacT, nor any other equipment. Anthony may or may not be a TacT dealer (depends on Boz's mood!) but his interest is not so much in selling the gear, but getting the best from it.

audiophile39 · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Dec 2005, 09:55 pm »

Thanks for your kind replies. Funnily enough, I first started looking at the NuForce amps, however I'm concerned that they went to market to soon, given the quality control issues and the many changes they've implemented in a brief period of time. From what I've read, Mr. McCormack's amps are considered among the best, if not the best, at least in his price range. This may just be hype on the audio sites. I'm going to take some time before I make commitments to components. And, I know I need to audition everything first.

ctviggen · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Dec 2005, 10:03 pm »

Take the money you'd save by buying a more powerful amplifier and buy realtraps (www.realtraps.com) instead. These will help somewhat with your room modes. By the way, here's a simplistic room mode calculator:

http://www.mcsquared.com/modecalc.htm

As for digital room correction, that's possible but will not correct modal ringing, although it could lessen modal ringing (i.e., because the peak of the modes are smaller, the ringing will therefore be smaller). For a room with your size and shape, you're going to need acoustic products.

zybar · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 Dec 2005, 10:03 pm »

You haven't explicitly stated a budget, but if it is around the retail price of the DNA-500, I would probably go with a lesser priced amp + Tact 2.2x before I went strictly with the DNA-500 for the reasons that have been mentioned above.

Although I love the DNA-500, I am quite positive there are other amps out there that I could plug in and would equal or better the DNA-500 in peformance (not sure if any would be cheaper...) - I CAN'T say the same thing for the TacT 2.2x. It is the one piece of my system that is staying put. It also has the biggest positive impact on the sound.

I have had my 2.2x modified by Anthony and I am going to have him work on it some more now that he has come up with a complete package. Good communication, fast turnaround, and GREAT results! Highly recommended.

George

audiophile39 · « **Reply #11 on:** 26 Dec 2005, 10:17 pm »

Thanks for your suggestion of including a Tact unit in my system. You'll want to ring my neck when I tell you that I live near Tact's US headquarters in NJ and purchased their digital amp (several years ago), however I sold it eventually for another amp, and now I'm back to square one. I swear I'm not on the path to buying and selling indefinitely. I think their room correction technology is way over my head and don't think I'd be able to use it properly.

warnerwh · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Dec 2005, 01:07 am »

With a 15x15 room your room modes are going to be awful. A Behringer DEQ 2496 will do alot to correct these bad modes you're going to have no matter what your system is. It's more simple than the Tact to use too. For 300 bucks with a microphone it's a steal.

My personal opinion is that you don't need near that much power in an amp unless your speakers are amazingly insensitive and you're half deaf and I firmly believe in having plenty of power. Spend less money on the amp and get some bass traps and room treatments with the extra money, you'll be glad you did as a square room is very difficult to tame.

What speakers are you running? Let us know the rest of your system please.

Rocket · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Dec 2005, 02:09 am »

Hi,

What components do you have in your current system? There are so many good products to chose from in the states it is mindboggling

.

Regards

rocket

audiophile39 · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Dec 2005, 02:20 am »

Hi, my budget is flexible (within reason). Not in the FM Audiol/Acapella crowd, but have a decent budget for sensible components. I just cut back on things like food, water, and clothes

As for speakers, I'm in a quandry. I didn't want to bring speakers up, for fear you'd think I'm all over the place, but I am spending waaaay too much time on speakers. I have been reading a lot about Tetra speakers, but the rave reviews make me wonder if they're just the latest flavor of the month. I like Vandersteen, however his speakers have a rear-firing woofer that may not be practical for my room (Windows by the walls). I had been considering Green Mountain, but I'm not sure they're for me. Now, I'm giving some thought to Dynaudio, which kind of impresses me because of the fact they make well-regarded drivers and have a strong trackrecord. As you can see, I'm all over the place. Ultimately, I have to actually LISTEN to speakers instead of relying on Websites and reviews. That said, any suggestions would be appreciated. My budget for speakers is around $7,000 or less. Thanks

Rocket · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Dec 2005, 02:28 am »

Hi,

Have you considered some of the speaker manufacturers who have forums here on AC?

You might save a few dollars.

Regards

Rod

audiophile39 · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Dec 2005, 03:16 am »

Thanks for the idea. I'm new to AC, and so I need to become better acquainted with the speaker makers in this forum. I have to confess that, rightly or wrongly, I tend to be impressed if a speaker receives a lot of fanfare in the audio press or if they're used widely in professional settings, such as Dynaudio with recording studios. This is something, though, I need to disabuse myself of, but it is sort of a validation I need, as the amateur that I am. Thanks for the suggestion.

Phil · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Dec 2005, 03:43 am »

As you say, you will need to listen to the gear, preferably in your particular room. Since the speaker/amp interface is so important, you might want to shop for both at the same time. Lots of gear is available over the web, some with trial periods.

I haven't heard the Odyssey Audio stuff, but they seem like the kind of company that cares about their customers and they have a forum here. At the very least, the die hards will give you another brand to consider.

Time spent looking for and listening to speakers is well spent. I agree with those who say most of the investment should be in the speakers, but I'm sure others have done well with a more equal distribution too.

Have fun above all else.

TomS · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 Dec 2005, 12:02 pm »

I am in the same process of building a new 2-channel system from scratch and am just about done.

I have the McCormack DNA-500 (uh, also for sale on a'gon btw) with the smallish Merlin TSM-MX monitors in a relatively small space (13x18x8). The press on these is definitely NOT hype. This amp certainly doesn't exhibit it's power reserves in a negative way like most behemoths. It is actually the best sounding of his various offerings, including the heavily modified ones (by Steve Mc). It has a great deal of finesse and is very smooth sounding overall (sort of like a good tube amp, but not colored at all). If it wasn't for a certain set of tube amps, this would probably be my keeper. That said, there are many alternatives suggested available here like the CI D-200, NuForce 9, Odyssey Stratos which would fit the bill. I'd also pay close attention to the interconnect, speaker cable, power cord, and power conditioner budget as these may eat it up pretty fast and do make a difference in overall setup. Again, many good ones on this site (Reality Cables, Bolder, Ridge Street Audio, etc.).

For speakers I have the Odyssey Nightingales ($1295) and both small and larger Merlins (TSM-MX and VSM-MX). The Merlins are certainly in another league both price and sound wise, but either one should be on the audition list. A used set of TSM monitors supplemented by a REL sub would be both very satisfying and economical in a smaller room. They are usually available on a'gon, but watch which version as there are many upgrades available from them (call Bobby P at Merlin FIRST). This combo would be hard to touch without spending a lot more money. The Odyssey Lorelei's may be one of the best speaker values in audio, though they may be hard to place with a rear port in that 15x15 room. You don't find them on resale for good reason, but even at list they are very reasonable ($2795). You might give Klaus a call. Jim Salk's HT3's are also popular in this site. The ones I've heard sounded great, but you'll have to wait awhile for him to build them (though clearly worth it). Again, no resales out there on these.

The other comments on here about room treatment are spot on. This will likely be your biggest challenge so take a look at the many products out there and seek advice from some of the expertise here and save some of that budget for that battle. My inclination is to get the best components I can afford, then start dialing in what I need in terms of room countermeasures gradually. If you're really in trouble, pieces like the Tact can really tame a misbehaving room quickly.

Good luck in the hunt!

ScottMayo · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 Dec 2005, 02:43 pm »

Quote from: Phil

As you say, you will need to listen to the gear, preferably in your particular room.

Normally, I'm all for this. In this case, with the room being untreated and likely to be so modal, it will be hard to compare the bass of various speakers. They'll all sound wrong. There are tricks you can use to work around this (old matresses against the walls in the corners) in the short term, but it might just be easier to get to a showroom or a fellow audiophile's nest, and listen to things. Or to try the gear in your bedroom, even if it's much smaller. You don't have to worry about power output - just about any quality speaker you buy will get very loud on 100 watts and will fill a large room. (Exceptions will talk about "very low efficiency" and you'll get plenty of warnings when you ask about them.)