Looking for a great loudspeaker system

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guest1632

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Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #180 on: 31 Dec 2005, 11:06 pm »
Quote from: avahifi
Oh goody!!  Tact 2.2!!!  Pay $4000 extra to get some wonderful digital processors and amplifiers in you system.

Duhhh, how about spending that money on some Sonex. acoustic wallpaper, and heavy carpeting instead?  No way that Tact machine is going to get rid of high and mid range nasty reflections and echos from your room.  What a waste.

I have contacted Mr Salk and a set of his demos are promised to me eventually.  Looking forward to that.

Frank Van Alstine


Hi Frank, Well, I do agree with you on this one. I don't think you need more junk, (before anyone gets offended, I am using that term very loosely) in the chain to do your proper evaluations.

Ray

guest1632

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« Reply #181 on: 31 Dec 2005, 11:20 pm »
Quote from: lonewolfny42
Quote from: alpha_03
Quote
I have contacted Mr Salk
As in Jonus Salk? (Spl?) Loud speaker cook book design author? Same person- I wonder?
.... :lol: ...Jonas is here......Jim Salk is here......and an Owners Circle on AC.
    Ever checkout the other Circles.... :roll: [/list:u]


Is this guy a troll? hmmm, I have my suspicions.
Ray

guest1632

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« Reply #182 on: 31 Dec 2005, 11:40 pm »
Quote from: alpha_03
LOL, what a smug.....err.........person, geeze, get over yourself.

Im done with this thread, some of you people are just plain RUDE.

I find it odd that if you do not have some designer badge, or mega bucks invested in some "unknown name" audio system that for some odd reason everyone else' gears sucks arse, to that I again say...........get over yourself you RUDE wanna be, sheesh.

I would be willing to bet you have never even heard a Proton power amp in a good enviroment, or for that matter, on really good speakers, lol, what a fool.

Good day to you all.


Well, first, I've heard of Proton, but did not know they made amps. Secondly, and pardon me for asking, but why would he want to listen to another amplifier. Now, if it is digital/PWM, he's be interested if I understand him correctly. I think at the moment, he is looking for speakers, not amps.

Ray

guest1632

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« Reply #183 on: 31 Dec 2005, 11:52 pm »
Quote from: Marbles
Ray, there are 3 pages that used to be in this thread, that are now in the Wastebin.  Bob was responding to many of the posts that are there.


?Well, I think he did to me any how, cross the line. I'm almost sorry those other pages weren't here. I kinda wondered what got him started to begin with.

Ray

lonewolfny42

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« Reply #184 on: 1 Jan 2006, 06:07 pm »
Ray....The wastebin is here >>>> http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=22
    It's location is in the "Archives - click to view" section.[/list:u]
      I hope Frank has gotten a few more speakers to listen to....there's enough out there to hear.[/list:u]
        Happy New Year.... 2006 :hyper: [/list:u]

dcbingaman

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« Reply #185 on: 1 Jan 2006, 07:35 pm »
Frank, I've admired your work for a long time - happy to give you my 2 cents on loudspeakers.  I am a dedicated Vandersteen fan - I have a set of 3A Signatures that retail for ~ $ 3500.00, sound great, image very well, and are pretty "mainstream" - i.e. good choice for developing amp.s and preamps that will work well with a lot of loudspeakers.  They also have a "pulse response" that is as good or better than anything else on the market, due to their use of very linear drivers and incorporation of a "minimalist" first-order crossover from top to bottom.  The new Vandy Quatro's also look interesting, and fit your budget, although I haven't heard them yet.  At the risk of pissing a lot of entrepreneur's on this forum off, I'd be cautious about testing your stuff with a "boutique" loudspeaker which only three other people have heard of, much less heard.  
Speaking of hearing, I recently auditioned the new B&W 802D's with the diamond tweeter at Best Sound in St. Louis- what a sweet loudspeaker...unfortunately they cost $ 12,500 a pair.  The big difference between these and all the past B&W's I've heard is that these don't peel paint off the walls, and they actually image !  I'm told that the reason is that the new diamond tweeter has no audible resonance and has wide enough bandwidth to allow use of a first order crossover between the tweeter and the superb Kevlar anisotropic midrange driver.  Despite their price, I think this might be the line (or, of course, Vandersteen) to sell with your superb amps and preamps.

avahifi

Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #186 on: 1 Jan 2006, 08:06 pm »
I would have agreed with the "peel paint off the walls" observation of older B&W models until we had them up and running with our new Ultra and Transcendence Eight preamplifiers and the Fet Valve Ultra 350/550 amplifiers.

Much to our surprise, that effect vanished from my highly modified B&W 801 Series Two loudspeakers.  The top end became as sweet and transparent and extended as you could wish for and completely integrated with the kevlar midrange unit.  We simply made a much better loudspeaker system from them than I woulld have ever suspected.

Soooo - - -  I am inclinded to suggest that if the older "high end" B&W speakers have a paint peeling effect for you, then I would be much more suspect of the driving electronics than the loudspeaker itself.

Frank Van Alstine

avahifi

Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #187 on: 1 Jan 2006, 08:07 pm »
I wish I kould spel write.

dcbingaman

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« Reply #188 on: 1 Jan 2006, 08:46 pm »
Frank, I can't argue with you on the potential for the electronics to influence the tweeter behavior on older B&W's....I've only heard them in the local audio saloons, so the amplification was likely pretty conventional  bi-polar transistor amps, (due to the relatively low sensitivity of these puppy's.)  In my experience with my titanium-domed Vandy tweeters, your FET-based power amps should work a LOT better.  (I am a big fan of your, Nelson Pass and Jim Strickland's FET-based power amp ideas - I am currently using a set of Hafler Transnovas with my Vandy 3A Signatures at the suggestion of Tom Jung of DMP Records.)  

What I was referring to was the potentially huge advance that B&W has made with their diamond dome tweeter.  I think this might be the best tweeter since Dick Sequerra' Pyramid T1 ribbon drivers from 20 years ago, and I wish I had the dough to bring a pair of these home !!

EProvenzano

Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #189 on: 1 Jan 2006, 09:02 pm »
Is B&W using the same Diamond tweeter (Accuton) used by Avalon?
Thanks

dcbingaman

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« Reply #190 on: 2 Jan 2006, 01:44 am »
According to B&W, these are built in-house using a diamond vapor deposition process developed in cooperation with DeBeers.  Having said that, however, the tooling costs must be tremendous for this sort of thing, so they may have designed it in house and out-sourced to Accuton or someone else, who could amortize it over a larger production run.  BTW, Vandersteen does uses a ceramic-coated titanium tweeter made by Vifa in their top models for the same reason, (i.e. delay / suppression of the dome's high frequency resonance to frequencies well out of the audible range.)  My understanding is the Vandy / Vifa dome tweeter resonates at 27 KHz, while the B&W diamond dome tweeter pushes this out to over 50 Khz.  (Just for reference, the Sequerra T-1 ribbons measured flat to over 100 KHz with no audible resonance.)

tonyptony

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« Reply #191 on: 2 Jan 2006, 02:22 am »
Frank, I didn't go through all 20 pages of this thread so forgive me if I missed it. But given what I know of your designs (and what my friend tells me) I think the Shahinian Diapasons would be a fine choice for your consideration.

guest1632

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« Reply #192 on: 2 Jan 2006, 03:14 am »
Quote from: avahifi
I wish I kould spel write.


Hi Frank,

Well, The vandersteens are probably a good choice. A friend of mine once was able to chat with Mr. Richard Vandersteen and he is a big tube fan. So I would think your stuff would be rather centerjistic with them. I do agree that they are more main stream than some of the stuff from this form. I will be most curious your report on Kevin's speakers. Another pair you might want to check out is the Laurellays. Now I know I spelled that wrong. They go for about $2700. Contact Clous at Odyssey and maybe he cann ship you a pair to listen to. I have heard extremely good things about them. I understand they do go down deep. Just some thoughts.

Ray

skrivis

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« Reply #193 on: 2 Jan 2006, 11:17 am »
Quote from: Ray Bronk
Yeah, I was thinking of Ed Frias speakers. the major disadvantage is once you buy, you keep/stuck if you don't like.

In all fairness to some of the other good speaker manufacturers out there, I kinda think Bob has crossed the line. Now Bob, if you just laid out your thinking without selling your speeks on this forum, I probably wouldn't have a problewm.


Much of what Bob wrote was in response to things I had brought up. If you want to blame someone, blame me for making the thread veer into a speaker design discussion. :)

skrivis

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« Reply #194 on: 2 Jan 2006, 11:19 am »
Quote from: Ray Bronk
Quote from: Marbles
Ray, there are 3 pages that used to be in this thread, that are now in the Wastebin.  Bob was responding to many of the posts that are there.


?Well, I think he did to me any how, cross the line. I'm almost sorry those other pages weren't here. I kinda wondered what got him started to begin with.

Ray


That was me.  :oops:

skrivis

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« Reply #195 on: 2 Jan 2006, 11:24 am »
Quote from: dcbingaman
What I was referring to was the potentially huge advance that B&W has made with their diamond dome tweeter. I think this might be the best tweeter since Dick Sequerra' Pyramid T1 ribbon drivers from 20 years ago, and I wish I had the dough to bring a pair of these home !!


That gets into murky waters. :)

I, personally, would say that the tweeters used in the Sapphire XLs or Dave Ellis' 1801s are the way to go. :)

skrivis

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« Reply #196 on: 2 Jan 2006, 11:36 am »
Quote from: dcbingaman
My understanding is the Vandy / Vifa dome tweeter resonates at 27 KHz, while the B&W diamond dome tweeter pushes this out to over 50 Khz. (Just for reference, the Sequerra T-1 ribbons measured flat to over 100 KHz with no audible resonance.)


This should probably be split into another thread, but...

Things like Bose speakers tend to measure nice and flat too, but I wouldn't call them accurate.

I had a pair of Sequerra Met 7s briefly, and I also heard them with the addon ribbons and subs. They weren't very dynamic. Solo piano sounded compressed.

As for very stiff tweeter diaphragms, there were some good discussions about this in the Ellis Audio circle. (In a nutshell, I lean towards a well-controlled "stiff enough" transducer. The Sapphire XLs should represent my viewpoint quite well.)

guest1632

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« Reply #197 on: 2 Jan 2006, 04:28 pm »
Quote from: skrivis
Quote from: Ray Bronk
Quote from: Marbles
Ray, there are 3 pages that used to be in this thread, that are now in the Wastebin.  Bob was responding to many of the posts that are there.


?Well, I think he did to me any how, cross the line. I'm almost sorry those other pages weren't here. I kinda wondered what got him started to begin with.

Ray


That was me.  :oops:


Well, Skribis, you're a good man to admit it. Hope you have a prosperous New aYear.

Ray

avahifi

Looking for a great loudspeaker system
« Reply #198 on: 2 Jan 2006, 05:09 pm »
Just for your info the Sapphire XL, although very nice, is not the equal of my highly modified B&W 801s.  In the bass range of course, but in mid and top end transparency and neutrality neither.  The Sapphire is a very good small speaker, but the mid/woofer cone does have to do a lot of work down deep that the 801 kevlar midrange does not.  My 801s win pretty easily, not to take anything away from the Sapphires for the price and size.

Again, what I need is something actually better overall than my 801s and I think that will be pretty hard to come up with.

By the way I heard the new B&W 800D speakers recently with our electronics.  My judgement was that the mids and top were better than our 801s, more defined, more transparent, and a rock solid stable image.  But the bass response was not as good as our 801s.  At $20,000 for the 800Ds, I will keep my 801s.  For $20,000, the 800Ds should have had a better bottom end. Not that I was not impressed by the top and mids, but it was not a "complete" speaker for the money.

Frank Van Alstine

Marbles

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« Reply #199 on: 2 Jan 2006, 06:16 pm »
The Salk HT3 is your speaker, and if TC Sounds ever gets Dave Ellis the driver he has asked them for, then I think his 3 way would be AWESOME as well, but that might take a year.

Speaking of taking a year, Jim Salk is pretty backed up, so it might take him a while to get you a set of demo speakers.  

If you ever come down to Fort Wayne, IN or over to Detroit, I'm sure you could get a demo.