Aiyima T20 Fully Balanced Tube Preamp, AKA Why do I do this to myself?

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic. Read 5018 times.

Jon L




Due to some favorable impressions on the 'net, I bought the just-released Aiyima T20 Fully Balanced Tube Preamp.  Attractions included the low price considering fully balanced input/output, tubes being used for actual gain not just buffer, remote control, and socketed opamps for rolling.

With the stock LME49720 opamps and Psvane 12AX7 tubes, the result was more than respectable but not quite worth inserting into the system when weighing the pros and cons.  Thus follows...   

[TUBE ROLLING (With stock opamps LME49720)]

Psvane 12AX7 (Stock tubes)

Balanced top to bottom without any one range sticking out.  Neutralish and clean sound with good bass, but something feels missing.
That something is good NOS harmonic richness and Nth degree of low-level detail transparency, but still, this tube doesn't commit any significant sins.  On the other hand, in this configuration, I would not feel the overwhelming need to keep it in the system, which is already well balanced.

Sylvania 7025/12AX7a

Provides that NOS American Tube magic.  Midrange fuller yet more detailed than Psvane.  More lively, sparkly sound but not edgier. Images are grander and suffused with more air but probably larger than neutral.  Still, now the T20 is sounding like a good preamp with tube virtues shining through.
 
Full Music 12AX7

Even rounder and more air-suffused images than Sylvania.  Full Music tube works great in my extremely-detailed horn/compression-driver setup where the extra airy forgiveness is more useful.  With softer speakers, it can seem not as detailed as something like TungSol 12AT7.

Tungsol NOS 12AT7

Lower gain than 12AX7 but works great in T20.  This tube has more focused, less rounded/air-suffused images, especially for female vocals.  Very detailed yet smooth upper midranges to treble, making female voices sound very nice.  However, male vocals don't have as much thickness and weight as Sylvania or Full Music.  If I listened much more to female vocals, I may prefer Tungsol.

Siemens Triple Mica ECC81/12AT7

This is a super tube with Teutonic balance.  Nothing is exaggerated or deficient, and balance is impeccable.  Female and male vocals are represented with equal amount of great detail and weight.  Overt air-suffused harmonics are not very noticeable, so those who want obvious tube harmonics may demand more.   
 
---------




[OPAMP ROLLING (With Sylvania 12AX7a tubes)]

Sparkos SS3602

Given how highly Sparkos are regarded, the results in T20 were shockingly unimpressive.  Sound did not really stand out as involving or inviting.  All the notes were present and music played on, but tone was a bit pale and lean.  Even the traditional Sparkos strengths of airy, extended top did not seem all that apparent.  Very strange result in this circuit and NOT recommended. Yes, Sparkos works great in some other circuits!

Burson V7 Vivid

At least the Bursons did sound like itself in T20 as it does in other circuits.  Vivid, detailed, and attention-grabbing as always, but some recordings did come across as bit more etched or naked sounding, not something we're after by inserting a tube preamp.  Some of the sound signature reminds me a bit of the Siemens tube signature mentioned above actually.  The resulting sound quality did not seem to me to justify the high price of Bursons relative to the price of Aiyima T20.
 
NewclassD DEXA DX2010 opamp

Whenever Sparkos or Bursons don't quite balance things out perfectly, the ancient DEXA DX2010 often works better, and this was also the case in T20.  DEXA gently shaved off some of the etchy detailing of Burson and filled in tonal density a bit compared to Sparkos.  This combination sounded quite neutral and uncolored, but then the question comes up.  Why bother inserting an extra component like a tube preamp just to have similar sound? 

At this point, I was ready to declare that Aiyima T20 was designed and tuned to work best with the stock LME49720 opamps and call it a day.  LME49720 combined with Sylvania 12AX7a tubes sounds fantastic with air-suffused, sparkly tube bloom and that extra "magic."  Only thing that needed some cleaning up was that images were perhaps too large and bloomy and that tube harmonics likely was slightly masking some resolution compared to no preamp in the chain.

OP2604

Remembering how well the OP2604 worked in my 4x PCM1794 DAC, I popped in the OP2604 in Aiyima.  Voila! This reigned in the image size a little and cleaned up the bloom some.  The resulting sound still had super-pleasing tube harmonics and tone but with ear-grabbing detail and sparkle intact.  In THIS system, OP2604 hit the right balance I'm looking for that makes me pull out recording after recording for just musical enjoyment.  This result is definitely not universal since I have NOT liked OP2604 much in different circuits in the past.  At its low cost compared to discrete opamps, highly recommended in Aiyima.    :thumb:

Addendum

Another T20 user mentioned on another forum he noticed background noise through speakers with T20.  I had been using T20 in my "normal sensitivity speaker" setup, but I hooked up my high-sensitivity tweeter/supertweeter, and I can hear background noise with certain combination of older tubes. 

So if one plans to use older/NOS tubes or in high sensitivity setup, I would consider these factors.
« Last Edit: 4 Sep 2025, 04:47 pm by Jon L »

Tyson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 11571
  • Without music, life would be a mistake.
Always such fun to read your writeups :).

Also, if the circuit can take a 12at7 like yours can, there's a very good chance it will take a 12au7 too.  Less gain than a 12at7 but much better tone, IME. Give it a shot!

Jon L

Always such fun to read your writeups :).

Also, if the circuit can take a 12at7 like yours can, there's a very good chance it will take a 12au7 too.  Less gain than a 12at7 but much better tone, IME. Give it a shot!

Yeah, I have a bunch of 12AU7's too.
I guess I'm lucky I amassed all these tubes before the price wars  :duh:

Tyson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 11571
  • Without music, life would be a mistake.
Me too.  I’m just under 600 tubes in my collection.  Most of them like you, before the prices went crazy.

Bill Baker

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 4928
  • Musica Bella Audio- Custom Design and Manufacturi
    • Musica Bella Audio
That’s a hell of a deal. Cost less than most of the tubes that will go in it :thumb:

snaimpally

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 120
Thanks for the detailed results of your experimentation.

Jon L




Addendum

Telefunken 12AX7 Ribbed Plate

Yeah, Tele ribbed plate sounded like baby's bottom after baby powder, ultra-smooth and extremely finely grained.  If you are the type of person who absolutely can't stand poor recordings' that may have edgy or "digital" moments, this is your tube.  I have had fantastic results with Tele ribbed plate in my other systems, but with Aiyima T20, I tend to prefer Sylvania 12AX7 or NOS Tungsol 12AT7 which tend to have more "live" or "raw" feeling.  I realize some prefer Tele smooth plates, but I only have one and don't really want to pay the ludicrous price to buy another to try in Aiyima, mainly because in the past I have felt Tele smooth plates are even more smooth and tubey sounding than ribbed plates, a bit too much IMO in many applications.

BTW.  NOS Tungsol 12AT combined with OP2604 seems to have a nice synergy going in Aiyima.  If able, I recommend to give this combo a try  :thumb:

viggen

Where did you get yours?  I don't see any sellers other than buying direct. 

This thing checks so many of my boxes.
1) 2nd output to connect to sub
2) small black box
3) DC 12v powered so can use HDPLEX (does it sound better with better psu?)
4) already got a stash of 12A*7 tubes

Wonder how it compares to this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BLXSQN1W?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_3

I "rented" this for a week.  Good sounding but overly syrupy.  Form factor looks very similar to T20.

Jon L

Where did you get yours?  I don't see any sellers other than buying direct. 

This thing checks so many of my boxes.
1) 2nd output to connect to sub
2) small black box
3) DC 12v powered so can use HDPLEX (does it sound better with better psu?)
4) already got a stash of 12A*7 tubes

Wonder how it compares to this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BLXSQN1W?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_3

I "rented" this for a week.  Good sounding but overly syrupy.  Form factor looks very similar to T20.

I bought direct from Aiyima site.  The current price there is supposed to be the 15% sale price for new product launch. 
Try typing in coupon code "Aiyima" when checking out, which should give you another $8.99 discount.  Shipping is free.

The Douk at your link has functions I don't need, Bluetooth DAC chip inside, headphone amp.  It also uses 5725 miniature pentode tubes, which I don't use, but most of all, it doesn't look to have sockets for opamp rolling  :(

More Addendum

Another T20 user mentioned on another forum he noticed background noise through speakers with T20.  I had been using T20 in my "normal sensitivity speaker" setup, but I hooked up my high-sensitivity tweeter/supertweeter, and I can hear background noise with certain combination of older tubes. 

So if one plans to use older/NOS tubes or in high sensitivity setup, I would consider these factors.

viggen

Launch price was slightly over $200?  It was launched last month, no?

I saw in a Japanese video that it has 3 op amps:

https://youtu.be/T2uAqAPv98s?si=C6ybuybWshaNoii6&t=829

Did you swap all 3 or just two?  I am hoping I only need to swap 2 but which 2?

Just ordered it.  How long did it take for you to get yours?

I did try the LME49720 in the MBL Chinese clone preamp and through it sounded very subdued not in a bad way.  Was too smooth with 1543 dac as source.  I prefer Muses02 but I only have 2.

Jon L



Did you swap all 3 or just two?  I am hoping I only need to swap 2 but which 2?


3 opamps are located right next to respective XLR and RCA outputs.  If you use XLR outputs, you would swap 2 opamps next to XLR connections.  If you use RCA, only need to swap one opamp next to RCA connection.

viggen

Just received it.

First thing I did is unsleeve it so it's ready for op amp swap.

Didn't bother with the PSVANE and went straight to a pair of RCA 12AT7.  And, using HDPlex 300's 12v fixed output.  I think it's 10amp.

It's only been plugged in for 15 minutes.  It's pretty transparent.  Doesn't change the sound TOO much.  It does add a layer of thickness same way the Douk preamp did but doesn't come close to overdoing it like the Douk did.  I think I am losing a tinge of air and sparkle.  Still getting used to the sound.

Can't wait to start op amp swapping.  The LME is sounding OK at the moment. 



I bought this mainly to have a second output for the sub.  Less need for it now as lows are now a bit meatier too.

viggen

That "LME is sounding OK" opinion didn't last long.  After a few hours, I thought the preamp sounded a bit closed in and artificial. 

Swapped in MUSES02.  Instantly, sound is relaxed, opened up and a touch more mellow. 

A few hours after that, I thought the sound is a bit dark.  So, swapped out the RCA for GE 6829.

I had always preferred the RCA over GE in other aplications.

The GE is more balanced sounding in this application.  Before swapping over to GE, I didn't think the sound with preamp in loop is better than without it.  Now it seems on par.
« Last Edit: 2 Sep 2025, 04:46 pm by viggen »

Jon L

I should look in my tube boxes to see if I have any of those GE 6829's. 

I wish I could find my OPA627 x2 on Brown Dog adapters to try in the T20.  Where the heck did I put it  :scratch:

I do have OPA828's coming which should be interesting. 

It's kind of fun revisiting all the misunderstood non-discrete opamps in my boxes..

viggen

quickly swapped in Sylvania 12AT7WA and RCA 12AT7WA.  Still prefer to GE.  Sylvania was particularly bad.  No tone at all.

FullRangeMan

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 21133
  • To whom more was given more will be required.
    • Never go to a psychiatrist, adopt a straycat or dog. On the street they live only two years average.
quickly swapped in Sylvania 12AT7WA and RCA 12AT7WA.  Still prefer to GE.  Sylvania was particularly bad.  No tone at all.
Its normal for Sylvania from 1970s era tubes.

viggen

btw the preamp doesn't introduce any noise into the system.  speakers are 100db ish

no turn on or off thump.
« Last Edit: 4 Sep 2025, 02:40 pm by viggen »

ginetto61

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 67
Hi !  very interesting thread indeed   
For cheap and cheerful parts i would also look at the NE5532    I think that it could be quite ok for buffer duties   
Not very exotic i agree 

davidldl

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 54
If anyone is looking to try the 6829 tube, ebay has some 'new' GE 6829's at 9.99 each and discounted if buying multiples ( 4 for 7.99 each, free shipping.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195731835445

David

viggen

Thanks for the heads up.

Not sure it matters, mine is the 5 star version.