[corloc]

Hi, I have used for around 30hrs, so yes, more break in is need.
I don't mean the b200 doesn't sound good, but I believe that is room for improvement.
I see that there is a relevant thread in the OB circle, so I am going to move over there.

I concure, There is room for improvment, but IMO It's alway good to know your base line before dinkering.   I'm trying a 1.5mH and 5 ohm combination mentioned earlier in this thread.  It is a impovment at low levels, but the B200 dosen't have the same impact, and it dosn't mate at all with my woofers.  It's probubly because I'm useing a 10W amp.  Maybe not enough headroom.

Chris

[-Richard-]

Hi Chris ~

Thanks for the update... your feedback is much appreciated!!

There is definitely more oxygen in this thread now... ahhhhh... we can breath again!!!

Warm Regards ~ Richard ~

[corloc]

I'm glad things have died down.  On to enjoying music and learning. 

Chris

[Wind Chaser]

I don't imagine most of us have measured the actual response of what they are getting from their implementation in their room.  I'm not technically equipped as such and so I depend on my ears, which is fine because at the end of the day that's the final test.  About 4 months ago Don Nodiak posted the results of what he achieved in his room without BSC, EQ etc.  With only one B200 per baffle and nothing else he recorded a very flat response of +/- 2.5db between 250Hz and 8K.  For the record, here is his post...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=19253.msg249958#msg249958

I think this is worth looking at again just to prove if nothing at all, that we shouldn't get too hung up on Visaton's FR graph.  As with any speaker the end result of whatever one achieves will depend on many factors.  The B200 is an amazing driver and I have yet to hear ANYTHING at ANY PRICE that sounds even half as good as the B200 in OB.

John

[scorpion]

Hi all,
 
I would like to respond to all who have mailed/messaged to me. I will try to put a long story short.
First about the LR-circuit, 1 mH + 8 ohms. If you don't use equalization this is quite essential.
It will shape response in a way that no other thing will do. It will be for the better, believe me. If you don't believe stay in the Dark.

I have been asked questions about how I deduced this. The answer is quite easy. I used a wellknown simulating
software (see DarkStar thread) and this came up with an answer which I believed in. Why do I believed ? Because I could see the resulting
simulations performance. And compare to other sources.

It is not more complicated than this. So in some way the circuit is a result of careful considerations. Be that the way it is, it is no accident !

Now, as I have admitted to use Zobel filter and other values inductors, what to believe ?

These have been used for testing purposes. In the end changes from the ground setting formula 1 mH + 8 ohms are only of not easily estimated value.
How can I say this. Well, in fact I can not, but changes away from this firm ground produce just infinitesmal changes to me. The point is when you have got this speakers balance right, it will produce its full capacity for you.

In fact I think that my simulatition lead more or less directly to a right value. Whats the difference by using other values ? It is just a personal preference situation if you prefer a Zobel or not or if you prefer a bypass capacitoror or if you prefer higher resisistor values. . It has not, as the initial LR-filter, to do with fundamentals of the speaker behaviour. It is just scracthing the surface.

The Zobel I have been using is 5.6 ohms + 8 microfarads. This should egualize impedance all the way.  What happens when I use my LR-filter with the Zobel ?
The great thing that is happening is that the LR-filter grabs a litte deeper in the 1k  to 8 k's response. How do I like that ? Well, that is up to you. There is no objective answer to this question. You have to listen and decide for yourself.

And so is the suggestion about the bypass condensator 1 to 1.5 microFarads and to use higher resistor values. You have to decide yourself.

Because the differences are not that great. Once you have decided that the B200's response partnerad with 1 mH inductor + 8 - 10 ohms resistors is your way to go, you certainly is way behind mere superstition. 

I have used high quality compoments for my circuits. Air wound or foil-type inductors and Metal Oxide Resistors, you owe this to the speaker.

As my research is fully independent, I would say that my results are valuable for Baffle-widths 30 cms or greater. Wings are included in baffle-width and height should be at least 2 meters or 1 meter less.

Have Fun,

/Erling

[scorpion]

I think I was trying to be too funny in my last paragraph.

I plan to put my B200s in flat baffles 45 x 100 cms. Actually one side will be 100 cm the other 110 cm. I will mount them 80 cm high for the middle of the element slightly off center to the small side. According to the Edge program (http://www.tolvan.com/edge/) this will give a little boost from 300 to 700 Hz were B200 has a slight dip. The LR-filter was also calculated with this in mind. 

I have been using big airwound inductors from 1.4 mm wire, I think that translates to AWG 16, AWG 18 would be as good.

/Erling

[srayle]

DMason,

Are you still using the Behringer DEQ in any of your set-ups? If you are, how are you dealing with the XLR-RCA interfaces, and why you like it; and if you're not still using it, can you tell us how come?

Thanks

Srayle

[Acudoc]

I'm going to build my first OB's.

B200's are on the way and I have some questions:

1) Best way to break in these drivers, special cd's etc?

2) Best way to connnect  the speaker wires to the driver?

3) Good cheap speaker wire?  Home depot?

4)  Where to buy parts for BSC circuit?


Did I forget anything?

Thanks

John

[corloc]

I'm going to build my first OB's.

B200's are on the way and I have some questions:

1) Best way to break in these drivers, special cd's etc?

2) Best way to connnect  the speaker wires to the driver?

3) Good cheap speaker wire?  Home depot?

4)  Where to buy parts for BSC circuit?


Did I forget anything?

Thanks

John

1. Plug them in and play the hell out of them.  Any music you enjoy as long as you can stand.  The first 10 hrs were the worst for me.   After 100 hrs all  the changes I heard were subjective.

2. I'm still useing jumper cables.  It's been at least 6 months.  When I finish perminent baffles I'll solder the speaker wires right to the drivers.

3. I'm useing braided cat5e, but I've seen posted that useing 18ga. lamp cord works quite well.

4.  I'm in Indiana, I buy parts mostly from Parts Express.

Good luck and Enjoy the Tunes.

Chris

[Wind Chaser]

If you are looking for a good deal on B200's, check out...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=32484.msg288288;topicseen#new

John

[Acudoc]

Chris,

I want to make sure I do this right and not F(*&k it up!

How should I attach the speaker jumpers or wire to the terminals on the back of the B200?

Did you use spades?

It looks like I could use f-disconnects/ quick connects. 

Is there a specific part # from parts express that I could use to find what I need.

Thanks

John

[corloc]

Simple alligator jumper cables.  I have used Jenzen 20ga. air core inductors, and mills resistors for the notch filter.  I would solder tack the coil to the resister.  You don't want a octopus in back. 

I've been playing around with baffle and drivers.  I didn't want anything fixed.  When I finish my baffles the dirivers will either be soldered right to the speaker cables.  Or A length of wire soldered to speaker than to binding post.

[Rafal]

Hi Everybody,

My name is Rafal and I'm new here. I've been reading this thread over the last few weeks and I am building Visaton B200 OB's over christmass. The drivers are ordered and I'm just finishing the Charlize amp (I used to have a LM3875 gainclone but I fried it good). I have played with OBs before. You can see my experiments with FR125s in OB here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74972&highlight=

When I listened to OB I had quiet the epjifany (sp?). Similar to the time when I realized how much better an active system sounded over passive (in that case it was Linn).

I will likely stard building something simillar to Vinnie's (from Red Wine Audio) and I may experiment with curved or acrylic wings I also plan to install a "shelf" over the driver at the back of it. I just hope I get enough bass that I won't need a sub .

Cheers,

Rafal

[opnly bafld]

Welcome Rafal,
You might want to have a look at the Mox in parallel with..... thread on the OB circle.
Using a baffle step compensation circuit, as discussed, might help you get the sound you want without a sub.

Lin

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Everybody,

My name is Rafal and I'm new here. I've been reading this thread over the last few weeks and I am building Visaton B200 OB's over christmass. The drivers are ordered and I'm just finishing the Charlize amp (I used to have a LM3875 gainclone but I fried it good). I have played with OBs before. You can see my experiments with FR125s in OB here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74972&highlight=

When I listened to OB I had quiet the epjifany (sp?). Similar to the time when I realized how much better an active system sounded over passive (in that case it was Linn).

I will likely stard building something simillar to Vinnie's (from Red Wine Audio) and I may experiment with curved or acrylic wings I also plan to install a "shelf" over the driver at the back of it. I just hope I get enough bass that I won't need a sub .

Cheers,

Rafal

Hi Rafal,

Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA Forum!

For the cost of two B200 drivers and wood, you are entering a whole new world of performance that you cannot obtain with boxed speakers. 

I will likely stard building something simillar to Vinnie's

If you are going to start with an OB with wings, try to make the front baffle as narrow as you possibly can (mine is 10" wide) so the wings attach close to the driver and guide the back wave outwards (JohninCR gave me this advice a while back and it was very helpful!).  I never tried curved or acylic wings, but that sounds really interesting (especially the curved ones!) and we'd love to hear how this works for you.

As for the shelf above the driver, hopefully you can start out by making it something that is easy to adjust and remove so you can try using it or not using it at all. 

Using a baffle step compensation circuit, as discussed, might help you get the sound you want without a sub.

Absolutely!  Here is the thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=31582.0

I followed Scopion's advice and haven't looked back, as you'll read in my comments in this thread.

Good luck and have fun!

Vinnie

[dewar]

Hi Darkwellers.

I just finished reading the second half of this thread(backwards) after reading the first half a few months ago, the time between spend moving continents.

Its been very stimulating reading, even touching upon other interests of mine like surfing and J. Krishnamurti. But to the task at hand..

I'm about to take the leap and get me two B200's. They will replace my Zu Tones while they get sent surface mail to the States to get fixed. I'm hoping I might like the OB's enough that I can put my Zu's up for sale. (not that I dont like them, I just need to cover some unexpected expenses)

I have one or two questions that I'm hoping I could ask, even though I suspect the answers are contained in these pages.

My 6.5mx4.5 room has some very absorbtive blanket material covering the entire front wall(the wall behind the speakers). I'm wondering if I should make this a bit diffusive instead so as not to loose to much of the back wave?

Secondly, regarding cork veneer, are you guys putting on the front baffle only or also on the wings? And what of using more absorbtive material such as velt?

Lastly, regarding subs and the mention of Q I saw recently, I've just built my first sub from plans I found on the net, called the "Critical Q sub" of Q=0.5 using a 12" Peerless 850300 driver in a seeled 42L enclosuse. It seems very "fast" and acurate, dry and well damped and blends seemlesly with my Zu's with the help of a Behringer 1124. My question is just is Q=0.5 desirable for integrating with OB B200's? I'm only wondering as I think I saw mention in these pages of Q=0.7 being described as ideal. I'm very new to the DIY side of this hobby.

I'll be pairing the OB's with a dual momo Clari-T and Monica2 dac(which arrives tomorrow)

Thanks for any advice on these matters, and for all the advice that has been shared up til this point.

cheers,

Bevan

[Dmason]

Sounds good to me; I am very familiar with exactly that combination of source, amp, speaker, which was what got the ball rolling, come to think of it. I think you will approve. Seamless, and a certain "holism," not found elsewhere. Another convert in the making, methinks.

Good luck, and keep us informed...

[Phil Townsend]

I'll admit it, I'm a lazy SOB.
 BUT!
I have the plywood,
I have the B200's,
I have a kick ass shop with all the tools.
And I have read every post, as of two months ago.

I wrote down the final size of the OB that most folks used on a nice sheet of graph paper and clipped it to a clipboard.

Yep, go it all....
Ready to make sawdust....

Where is that damn piece of paper?????

Christine, my wife cleaned my shop as a birthday gift...
Thanks Chris but where are the plans?

Please will someone  let me know what are a good set of sizes?
Please??
And were does the cork go and how much?
Thanks

Where is that sheet of paper???

[-Richard-]

Hi Phil ~

Ah yes... the "ideal" size of the baffles... I suspect the answer to that is as varied
as the constellations in the night sky ~

However I could share my own measurements with you that were originally given
to me (more or less) by none other than Dmason himself:

41 inches high by 27 inches wide... the upper edge of the B200's is 7 inches from
the top and 7 inches from the outside in mirror configuration ~

Those are the baffles I am currently using... however Dmason has suggested to me
that in his explorations he has found that a much narrower front baffle worked
just as well for him... I think he mentioned a baffle width of 12 or 13 inches ~

Also, Dmason, told me once that on aesthetic grounds he does not like the look
off-centered drivers... I agree entirely... if I build another pair of OB's the drivers
will be centered!!!

I do not use wings, Phil... what I am hearing is so satisfying (a vast understatement)
that I cannot imagine what "wings" could add to this admittedly already quite
dynamic, utterly alive, deeply dimensional, visceral, texturally rich and spatially
resonant presentation ~

However ever since Dmason in his wisdom and generosity decided to share with
us a new paradigm in speaker design there has been as many designs as one could
possibly imagine... and each design variation seems to be defended with fire
and the sword... so in asking what would ordinarily sound like a simple question
you are entering a mercurial world where it seems "everything goes" ~

Dmason once mentioned that cork in the back and the front only made things sound
better... but I did not have a chance to pursue his insights further at that time ~

Perhaps Dmason, might want to add his enlightened thoughts to this and help you
(and others who are about to jump into the Open Baffle phenomenon) to get going ~

Vinnie loves his version of a winged OB and perhaps he might be able to add a
few insights here ~

Good luck Phil!!!!!

Warm regards ~ Richard ~

[corloc]

I agree with Richard.  OB's seem very room and system dependent.  I used mostly fixed wings, center 10" with 7" and 10" wings at 60 deg. driver at 24" from floor, height 48", tilted 10 deg. back.  The second was 16" wide center to accommodate a 15" helper woofer.  This was in my living room 14' x 26'.  I now listen in a room I think 12' by 10', and both versions are completely overwhelming with bass.  The Xbaffle program I use suggests that a 12" to 18" baffle no wings, driver about 38" from floor centered.  I think height of the baffle will be 48", because I'm lazy.  The big thing is experiment.

Chris