Bully - Rounded corners

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robwm

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Bully - Rounded corners
« on: 28 Feb 2025, 11:42 pm »
Hi,

I have heard rounded edges on speaker cabinets suggested many times. How significant is the difference with or without rounded edges on the Bully? The pictures of the Bully at GR Reseach don't seem to be rounded but it's really hard to tell for sure.

The reason I ask is due to the fact that I have never tried to veneer anything on this level. I have low confidence I could veneer around corners in a professional looking way, so I'd like to just leave it square to make the finishing job a bit easier. I know I could veneer it that way.

If the difference in sound is not really noticeable to the average person, I would rather take an easier route.

Thank you!
Rob

Tyson

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Re: Bully - Rounded corners
« Reply #1 on: 28 Feb 2025, 11:57 pm »
You can check my build thread on the NX-Bravo.  As long as you only round over the side edges and not the top/bottom edges it's not that hard.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=190737.0

robwm

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Re: Bully - Rounded corners
« Reply #2 on: 1 Mar 2025, 12:08 am »
I will review your post since I am curious.

My biggest concern is the veneer cracking or splitting as it goes around the corner. I believe you are suggesting to only round the vertical edges. Another thing I encountered is the cost to simply round these edges for 10 minutes of effort. I don't own a router and would never use one after this project. I haven't found anyone so far that does own one, but I'm not done looking for a loaner. Two hours of renting one is about the same as buying your own. I just don't consider the cost of a router to be worth the purchase for the amount of work that needs to be done.

I would still like to know how critical this action is on the music produced. I don't have the hearing I used to have as a teenager. I'm not sure if I would be able to tell the difference. If the difference can only be measured by equipment, I'll give this extra detail work a pass.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Bully - Rounded corners
« Reply #3 on: 1 Mar 2025, 12:14 am »
Typically our speakers round-overs are 3/8" or 1/2" but the larger the round-over, the smoother the response will be, but eventually, you will either need extra material in the inside corners or thicker baffles to prevent opening a hole because the material becomes too thin, or you have to move the drivers further away from the sides to accommodate a larger round-over.

Where it matters most it when the tweeter is equidistant from the left/right sides, (or even worse: top & sides are all equidistant) as you have 2 diffractions happening and arriving at the same time, where they may arrive in-phase (a peak, or out of phase (a dip) the larger the round overs.
Having drivers off-set, like the Brute/Bully is much less of an issue as the distances between the tweeter and the edges are all different, so no one diffraction is cable to couple with another, and the effect is much less of an issue.
in the case of the Brute/Bully, having no round-over won't wreck the response or the sound overall as it might with some other models but, rounding over the left/right sides is recommended at a minimum.

An example of really bad diffraction is the Dayton Opal 1:
https://youtu.be/eYMihmM81lI?si=Hyc-M91ihUoutLUw

And the SVS Evolution bookshelf:
https://youtu.be/Gs3F66JIcgI?si=7UGVCKknyn78wHnC

The first part of the SVS video has a really good illustration of how the baffle shape affects the speaker's response as its shows a prototype tweeter & mid pod in several custom baffles and how it affects the response.

NIGHTFALL1970

Re: Bully - Rounded corners
« Reply #4 on: 1 Mar 2025, 02:10 am »
Rob,
The pictures of the bullies on the GR website may be a 1st prototype. The edges on mine are more rounded. I notice that the bullies tend to warp and distort in photos. I’ ll load some photos of mine that hopefully look more realistic.








I hope these help.


GentleBender

Re: Bully - Rounded corners
« Reply #5 on: 1 Mar 2025, 09:37 am »
I flipped these to protect your necks. :lol:








NIGHTFALL1970

Re: Bully - Rounded corners
« Reply #6 on: 1 Mar 2025, 12:47 pm »
Thanks!🙏 How do you do that?

goggle1824

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Re: Bully - Rounded corners
« Reply #7 on: 1 Mar 2025, 02:40 pm »
I flipped these to protect your necks. :lol:

Ouch, oh my gosh, THANK YOU!!!

Rusty Jefferson

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Re: Bully - Rounded corners
« Reply #8 on: 1 Mar 2025, 03:26 pm »
....I would still like to know how critical this action is on the music produced. I don't have the hearing I used to have as a teenager. I'm not sure if I would be able to tell the difference. If the difference can only be measured by equipment, I'll give this extra detail work a pass.
The main reason the Dayton Audio speaker linked has diffraction issues is the tweeter is equidistant from 3 sides of the cabinet edges, thus compounding the reflection.  It appears the Bully has the mids/tweeter moved to one side intentionally to reduce that issue. I think it's unlikely you would see a significant difference in measurements or hear one between a cabinet with a 3/8" roundover and a square edged one, as it takes something like a 2.5" radius (maybe more? I'd have to look) to eliminate the diffraction.



robwm

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Re: Bully - Rounded corners
« Reply #9 on: 4 Mar 2025, 02:34 pm »
Thank you for posting the Bully pictures!

My plan is to use DuraTex on the front and round-overs. The rest of the cabinet will be wood veneer.

Is it recommended to round-over the top front edge as well? Not just the vertical (side) edges? What about the bottom front edge? Should that be rounded?

I would like to keep as many of the sharp edges as I can but I'm willing to round off whatever is highly recommended. I found a good deal on a router to get this detail work completed.
« Last Edit: 4 Mar 2025, 04:35 pm by robwm »

NIGHTFALL1970

Re: Bully - Rounded corners
« Reply #10 on: 4 Mar 2025, 07:11 pm »
Rob, one thing that I have found out with the bullies is that they don’t really photograph very well. The Duratex finish looks a lot better in real life. Also camera phone lenses really distort them. Pictures really don’t do them justice.

robwm

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Re: Bully - Rounded corners
« Reply #11 on: 4 Mar 2025, 07:19 pm »
I understand about the picture distortion. I don't have a full understanding of what must be rounded for the best results.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Bully - Rounded corners
« Reply #12 on: 4 Mar 2025, 11:49 pm »
high frequencies are most affected by edge diffraction, the exact frequency depends on the distance between the tweeter and the edge, and the closest edge will have the biggest effect.
For the Bully there's a woofer between the tweeter and the top edge, so it's not necessary to round over the top/bottom, but it certainly wont hurt either.

If you plan to use veneer, stick to a hard edge on top/bottom to make veneering easier. For painting, consider rounding over all the edges.

robwm

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Re: Bully - Rounded corners
« Reply #13 on: 5 Mar 2025, 12:00 am »
I feel like it would look better if the top was flat and fully veneered. The midrange is nearest the top edge with the tweeter below that. I'm not sure if Danny measured this difference. Top rounded versus not rounded. I didn't think the bottom needed to rounded other than for aesthetics, if desired.

corndog71

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Re: Bully - Rounded corners
« Reply #14 on: 5 Mar 2025, 01:16 am »
Danny typically recommends rounded sides and tops.  I would defer to his expertise but nobody can stop you from doing what you want.

I want to build a pair of Brutes with wood veneer sides and duratex front baffle similar to classic 80’s speakers.  Someday.  Too many other things take priority.

Danny Richie

Re: Bully - Rounded corners
« Reply #15 on: 5 Mar 2025, 11:12 pm »
I feel like it would look better if the top was flat and fully veneered. The midrange is nearest the top edge with the tweeter below that. I'm not sure if Danny measured this difference. Top rounded versus not rounded. I didn't think the bottom needed to rounded other than for aesthetics, if desired.

You can do that.