[Soonerbass]

I have been asking myself, why do all the new speakers sold today have to be basically a huge brick that you run enough current through to make Frankensteins monster due the Hustle and everyone thinks that’s a good sound. I have 16 ohm 25 watt speakers that are 60 years old that sound more powerful than my 400 watt 12” Klipsch subs. On a 16 watt EL34 tube amp. What gives folks? Help me to understand.

[Tyson]

I used to own speakers with low sensitivity.  Mostly because I wanted to be able to get a lot of bass from small drivers and a narrow speaker.  After owning a bunch of different speakers, I now refuse to own anything under 93 or 94 db efficiency.  Because speakers with higher sensitivity have a 'jump factor' that's hard to replicate.  It also opens up a whole world of cool amps you can use. 

[johnwoitalla]

I used to own speakers with low sensitivity.  Mostly because I wanted to be able to get a lot of bass from small drivers and a narrow speaker.  After owning a bunch of different speakers, I now refuse to own anything under 93 or 94 db efficiency.  Because speakers with higher sensitivity have a 'jump factor' that's hard to replicate.  It also opens up a whole world of cool amps you can use.

Examples please.

[Tyson]

Examples please.

Examples of what?

[toocool4]

There are trade-offs with everything, you can’t have it all. Either end of the scale has it’s own advantage / dis-advantages.
My speakers are 83db sensitivity, it does not need a massive powerhouse of an amp to get it singing. Besides I don’t play at ear-splitting level, I value my earing.

Just because a low power amp with a high sensitivity speaker sounds louder than a high-powered amp and low sensitivity speaker means nothing, louder does not equal better. Quantity does not equate to quality.
Choose what sound you like and what works for you and don’t worry about anyone else.

[g3rain1]

I have been asking myself, why do all the new speakers sold today have to be basically a huge brick that you run enough current through to make Frankensteins monster due the Hustle and everyone thinks that’s a good sound. I have 16 ohm 25 watt speakers that are 60 years old that sound more powerful than my 400 watt 12” Klipsch subs. On a 16 watt EL34 tube amp. What gives folks? Help me to understand.

Because Watts are not a measure of sensitivity, but of power handling.  Sensitivity is expressed as dB/Watt. Figure out what that is for each speaker and you'll have your answer.

[jmimac351]

I have been asking myself, why do all the new speakers sold today have to be basically a huge brick that you run enough current through to make Frankensteins monster due the Hustle and everyone thinks that’s a good sound. I have 16 ohm 25 watt speakers that are 60 years old that sound more powerful than my 400 watt 12” Klipsch subs. On a 16 watt EL34 tube amp. What gives folks? Help me to understand.

Can you share more info about the speakers you own and referring to... and what is an example of the low sensitivity speaker you're comparing it to?

Reading your message... are we just talking about subs?  I'm not sure.

If you share more specifics, I suspect the added context will help you get better feedback.

[johnwoitalla]

Examples of what?

Examples of high efficiency speakers.

[Tyson]

Examples of high efficiency speakers.

You mean ones that I've owned?  Sure.  Right now I own the Lineforce line arrays at 98db, the NX-Oticas at 94db.  Before that I had the Super 7's at 97db and the Spatial Audio X3's at 95db.  Before that it was the Klipsch Forte III's 102db and before that the Heresy III's at 99db.  There's been others but you get the picture.

[Soonerbass]

The YL speakers from 1965 are 16 ohms and the sensitivities are high over 100.
  Versus 1 or 2 ohms speakers with 70's sensitivities.


The Cerwin Vegas have a Coral 12L-1 in place of the stock 30 cm driver. 106 db 24 watts 8 ohms.
I can run 6 W per channel and they have a smooth creamy sound or I can use the 32 wpc amp with el34's and the soundstage broadens and deepens, the sound is rich but also no less detailed than the smaller amp.
Of course these are true hifi speakers not mass merch. So that does make a difference. But I just don't seem to enjoy the sound quality from my classical as much on the purely a/b and d class platforms.

[jmimac351]

After owning a bunch of different speakers, I now refuse to own anything under 93 or 94 db efficiency. 

My 2-way speakers have called an emergency Cabinet Meeting. 

[Tyson]

My 2-way speakers have called an emergency Cabinet Meeting. 

Funny .

But the truth is we all have our own preferences.  So there's no right answer. 

[Early B.]

After owning a bunch of different speakers, I now refuse to own anything under 93 or 94 db efficiency.  Because speakers with higher sensitivity have a 'jump factor' that's hard to replicate.

Agreed. It took me 25 years to figure this out.

[Huskerbryce]

I have owned and built many speakers with different sensitivities over the last 35 years.  Recently I have come to enjoy higher sensitivity speakers.  My current NX otica pair at 94db offer me things that suit my personal preferences.  As Tyson said “jump” factor.  Dynamic music just pops seemingly faster and crisper and has energy that I enjoy.  Although I run high power mono block amps, they barely come out of idle when listening.  This keeps them biased in class A operation much of the time and they run cooler.  My room used to heat up quick with 84 db speakers. Not any more.  I also feel like finer details are resolved and heard at lower volumes with my higher sensitivity speakers.  It could be because of newer drivers with newer design and newer materials and better crossover components.  Given the option between low and high efficiency, I prefer higher.  To each their own.  If you enjoy the music, thats what matters.

[S Clark]

My experience is that you can get excellent sound from a variety of combinations.  Many of Tyson's speakers were designed to have the bass driven by servo subs... which require a special amp.  So although it's true that most of the GR- Research line is listed as highly efficient, that is true because they are only handling part of the signal.  They aren't driving the signal below 200 Hz with only a handful of watts. 
There are several ways to get that fast, jumpy sound.   Danny Richie likes to use multiple drivers so each one has less excursion.  His current models can operate with low watts + sub.  Or my older line source (again a GR design) works much the same... but even at 91 dB/1m efficiency, it takes a lot of power.   
Just because a speaker is efficient does not make it responsive.  The old Cerwin Vegas come to mind.  And not all responsive speakers are efficient.   

[FullRangeMan]

I have been asking myself, why do all the new speakers sold today have to be basically a huge brick that you run enough current through to make Frankensteins monster due the Hustle and everyone thinks that’s a good sound. I have 16 ohm 25 watt speakers that are 60 years old that sound more powerful than my 400 watt 12” Klipsch subs. On a 16 watt EL34 tube amp. What gives folks? Help me to understand.

Great post. 
I was shocked when I heard an German Full Range Alnico from the 1950s for the first time driven by a small SET at an acquaintance's house.

I was told by the owner that those vintage speakers usually can delivery a large amount of sound with just a few milliWatts, normally 400 to 500 milliWatts can fill a room, this was a remarkable experience.

Searching the subject discovered that the VCs of the past were very different from current drivers, the VC were made of treated paper, not Fiberglass, Kapton ou aluminum as driver of today.

What is certain is that these modern speakers have an artificial sound to my ears since then.

[FullRangeMan]

I used to own speakers with low sensitivity.  Mostly because I wanted to be able to get a lot of bass from small drivers and a narrow speaker.  After owning a bunch of different speakers, I now refuse to own anything under 93 or 94 db efficiency.  Because speakers with higher sensitivity have a 'jump factor' that's hard to replicate.  It also opens up a whole world of cool amps you can use.

+1000

[Soonerbass]

The YL's (16ohm)

sound so natural to my ears when listening. Even with my Industrial music. I can tell large differences from the 1960's to the 1990's and now my 2023 set. Even switching between the pure class A 6w amp at 8 ohms which may produce a watt. To the 17w Prima Luna at 16 ohm tap, both tube amps change the dynamic. Then wow, you put the Denon 40w/8ohm and it is completely different with that classic digital













 a/b sound modulation. I barely turn up the volume and yet any of these will clear my sinuses. I also follow Danny's advice. I used the leftover good nickel parts from the Polks for these RE30's. Plus I now carry a magnet when thrifting. Thanks for the tip!

[DannyBadorine]

Sensitivity is sacrificed when you want a smaller woofer to go lower in a smaller enclosure.  Also, many speaker manufacturers are grossly exaggerating their sensitivity.

[jmimac351]

You go on with that copper, Soonerbass!!!