[rooze]

Color me skeptical for what little it’s worth.

I owned VSM Mxe for a few years and thought they were fantastic speakers. I never found them to be forward or bright. I did find them to be very revealing and sensitive to equipment matching but that was one of their biggest attributes and not a weakness. I didn’t always run them with tubes, they were sweet with Moon gear, not so much with a big Krell FPB 700 that a friend brought over. Even a lowly Cambridge Audio 850 integrated amp sounded wonderful (that’s a real underrated amp by the way).

I didn’t use the Master BAM module exclusively with the VSM, I felt on most types of music it really wasn’t necessary, but it worked well with other music where low bass was more of a feature.

This was a well reviewed speaker and mostly loved by people who own it, hence the reason for it being quite rare on the used markets, I think. If you want to make it “better”… well, good luck.

I had to sell my floorstanders when I moved south a few years ago but I’m now using the stand-mounted Black Magic Edition speakers, which share a similar design principle and similar components to yours. These speakers are among the most detailed, transparent, and musically engaging I’ve owned over the years and I’ve owned a few.
I ran them for a little while with the Ars Sonum Filarmonia, which is a 30 watt E34L design and one of the amps recommended by the late owner of the company Bobby Palkovic. It sounds a little too sweet and relaxed for my tastes so I’ve just replaced it with a pair of Audio Mirror SET45 monoblocks which use the 6C33C tube and they sound bloody marvelous with the little TSM BME. I wish I had owned these amps when I had my VSMs back in the day.

Anyway, my point is that Merlin speakers can and do sound fantastic when set up properly and paired with the right equipment, which IME is a prerequisite for ANY high-end speakers, regardless. If modifying the crossover can make them sound even better then I say hats off to you for trying, but let’s keep it real when describing the originals.

For those stumbling on this thread as I did, it’s worth mentioning that Merlin speakers are still serviced and supported by Rick Brkich of Signature Sound in NY. I bought a new driver from Rick and a brand new Master series RC network, and he’s a good guy to deal with. He was a close friend of the owner and designer Bobby P, before he passed away I believe in 2015.

Good luck keeping the brand alive in some sense and I hope your project ends in success.

Rooze

[jmimac351]

@rooze I'm really glad you jumped in here and shared this.  To let you know a little more about how I got here...

~ I bought my Merlin VSM speakers from Bobby in 1999.  I've owned them a little more than a few years... I guess going on 25 now.

~ I sent them back to Bobby once for a "MM" upgrade. I spoke to Bobby many times on the phone.  My wife and I saw him and the late Jud Barber of Joule Electra at the CES show in 2001.  I currently own a Joule LAP150 Preamp, Joule VZN-80 amp, and Joule Electra VAMP.

~ The "stand mounted Black Magic edition" speakers you now own are the TSM.  Yes.  I've own 2 pairs of TSM speakers, one of them with the Black Magic crossovers.  They are not the same speaker as the VSM, but I suspect they have the same issue as the VSM.  After the dust settles from this, maybe you will decide to send one of them to Danny.  (Keep your mind open on this)

~ A few years ago, Rich Brkich did the "Black Magic" crossovers for my speakers.  I have known and done business with Rich for many years.   In fact, he did the Black Magic upgrade to my VSM speakers and also to a pair of TSM speakers, which I no longer own.

So... it's safe to say... I'm a "Merlin Guy".  I've own the current VSM for 25 years and TSMs on 2 other occasions. 

Here's the thing... I used to think and believe exactly what you shared regarding the VSM.  After all.. that's what we were told.  Bobby told us that.  Reviewers told us that.  Everyone on the interwebs told us that.  And then a funny thing happened... experience and "hearing the difference" and "The Why". 

You mentioned couple of things that are often mentioned in reviews, by others / everyone... "they are resolving".  "They have to be paired with the right equipment".  I.e., "if you don't like the way they sound then your equipment may just not be up to the task".

Well, here is what I have learned thru experience and spending my own money.  Now, keep in mind, several months ago I sent a Wilson Duette speaker to Danny.  Would it be safe to assume that a "Wilson Audio" speaker should be beyond reproach?  If someone said "well, the reason you think your Wilson Duette sound forward and are too resolving is because your equipment isn't up to the task".  Or better yet... "you must use them with tubes" aka "The Crutch".  Keep in mind, I own great tube gear.  A speaker shouldn't "need to be used with tubes to sound good".

When I read you mention "revealing and sensitive to equipment matching" it makes me smile.  I understand what you are saying and I know why you are saying it.  Bobby Palkovic used to tell me that and I used to believe that.  I believed if for decades.  I understand, for some, it can be a very difficult thing to come to terms with the fact that what you thought was so and true for a long time is, in fact, not true. 

I have already experienced people reacting to what I'm sharing.  Some are quite annoyed by it.  It is not "Heresy"...

Not Heresy... more "Hear and See"....

Without stealing too much of Danny's thunder... when I read the words "revealing" and "equipment matching", based on my experience, and the money I've spent to experience the difference, I know there is a high likelihood of "Lack of Baffle Step Compensation".  "Resolving" very often corresponds to too much energy 700hz to 2,000 / 3,000khz.  If you're interested, go watch the video Danny did on my Wilson Audio Duette here:

https://youtu.be/o_PJzPBCaOY?si=B2NdM5ZzkTmiiggm

Here's the thing... I already know how this story ends, and I am very hopeful it's going to be awesome.  For any Merlin owner reading this thread, please know this... Danny has already measured the VSM. Another Merlin owner sent one to him many years ago.  It's my understanding, after Danny measured the speaker, the other Merlin owner decided to just buy something else rather than having it fixed.  Man, I really wish he'd just had the crossover redone then... it would have saved me $300 shipping it back and forth to Texas!  I have already seen the response from the other speaker.   Danny shared it when me when I mentioned to him earlier last year that I owned a VSM.  Let's just say... when Danny sent me the measurements, and told me the issues, I was very disappointed.  Since I have already confirmed with Rich Brkich that there were no fundamental design changes to the values in the Merlin crossover (Bobby played with better parts, which is fine, but the basic response stayed the same), imagine my disappointment when I was looking at Black Magic crossovers I'd already paid for, and no longer wanted to use?

Well, you aren't the only Merlin owner who is convinced the speaker is "right".  So, I sold those Black Magic crossovers to another owner and hope he is happy with them.

Now, I was the proud, 25 year owner of a pair of Merlin VSM speakers with no crossovers.  (No, I didn't have the original crossovers from Rich as those parts are difficult to remove without destroying)

So, what to do?... I know a guy!  And I will be there next week to see that guy... and I'm hopeful this all works out fine and dandy. After I hang out at GR and play with speakers and eat some BBQ, I'm heading to Eagles Canyon Raceway for a track event.  Can't wait... gonna Have Fun!

One thing I do... I Have Fun.

Remember... "Baffle Step Compensation"... 

[jmimac351]

I had a great time with Hobbs and Danny!  This was really something to watch happen... and I am very excited...

[jmimac351]

Making the sausage...

[jmimac351]

Link to video about Merlin Music VSM --> https://youtu.be/dQ78c-6tH7s?si=-ZDD8UTQsv0qyAxo

[Tyson]

Nice!  Are you wiring everything up now?

[drphoto]

I have the TSM, not the VSM, but there were some comments on issues w/ the drivers. As some one else noted, wasn't the Estotar considered one of the best soft domes produced? And I thought the mid bass unit was well regarded. Wasn't that the same driver used on some legends like the ProAc Response 2.5 and one of the Meadowlark speakers......the Shearwater I believe it was called.

[jmimac351]

I have the TSM, not the VSM, but there were some comments on issues w/ the drivers. As some one else noted, wasn't the Estotar considered one of the best soft domes produced? And I thought the mid bass unit was well regarded. Wasn't that the same driver used on some legends like the ProAc Response 2.5 and one of the Meadowlark speakers......the Shearwater I believe it was called.

I really like the drivers, in fact, and the timing was perfect.... I have a pair of Odyssey Lorelei speakers that use the same 8545 driver, in a bigger floor standing enclosure. I got them last month. The bass from the 8545 in that Odyssey Lorelei speaker is really something... and made me realize there is a lot more left in the VSM and that I wanted to get this done.  Some like the VSM just the way it is.  I have heard what Danny has done to another 2-way that I thought was a forward sounding... and it transformed the speaker. 

Danny can choose to comment on the 8545 and Esotar and what he did, but my understanding is it's not really "problems with the drivers" but more so than there are just things that need to be done to get them to be happy together.  I think each may have common, known things that are addressed in the network.  The 8454 has great extension but I don't think it's as happy playing up higher, like a GR driver.  But I don't think one of Danny M165 drivers will play as low as the 8545... but if you're planning to use subs anyway, maybe you give up bottom end extension for a smoother midrange.  I think the final crossover design maybe only had 11 parts?    So, if there were any significant driver issues, it didn't take too much to resolve. That's fewer than what my Wilson Audio Duette needed.  The Duette has 16 parts, per speaker.

I'm anxious to get the speaker back and get them fired up... and hear a 25 year old "brand new" speaker.

[jmimac351]

Nice!  Are you wiring everything up now?

This just got done week before last.  I need to get the speaker back and Frederick needs to solder. 

[drphoto]

At some point, I thought I would get the Odyssey Lorelei. Heard 'em and really liked.(been a few years.) I have Stratos Monos.  But now I'm pretty sure going OB.  I dunno......why not both?

Hey man, ya gotta any post somewhere.....or website about your car racing?

[jmimac351]

At some point, I thought I would get the Odyssey Lorelei. Heard 'em and really liked.(been a few years.) I have Stratos Monos.  But now I'm pretty sure going OB.  I dunno......why not both?

Hey man, ya gotta any post somewhere.....or website about your car racing?

I will have OB and Box speakers.  I like speakers.  Speakers are fun. I like owning several of them.

I'm on the Chief Instructor staff with www.chintrackdays.com

So, I have done amateur racing but what I mostly do now is help people have fun at racetracks.  You can bring your car, and crazy people like me will get in the right seat and (try to) show you how to do it.  The good news is that you naturally don't want to die and are going a lot slower than you could (but you're scared to), so you're not really causing me much worry.    At the end of the day, you're mentally drained, have less brake / tire, and you have a lifetime memory.   

I was at the track 29 days last year.  That's a lot of lifetime memories.  It's been time well spent.  I now mostly do the classroom for novice students, and also do classroom for the Motorsports Safety Foundation Instructor Training events held at certain Chin events.  That's where we mint new driving instructors. 

We do get to drive, of course.  Appropriate for this week is Sebring International Raceway... with the 12hr coming up this weekend.  I've been going to Sebring for 19 years.  This is me in my 2008 Mazda MX-5 with 2.5L swap.  I'm chasing my buddy in the gray NC Miata.  What you can't see is him running on my tail down the back straight at Sebring, and I'm trying to break his draft by weaving. 

This... is FUN and very few people in their life will ever experience something like that.  However, you could... if you take the next step.

Video Link:  https://youtu.be/ucNuv8C7Tm0?si=3rWRk66pQbxiDi3K

[drphoto]

Very cool. Thanks. Hey if ya feel like it......hit me up on message (don't want to derail thread) Got a quick question for you on sports cars vs audio....assuming you can't afford both!

[jmimac351]

Well, I now have the crossover upgrade schematic. I'm working with Frederick (who will build the crossovers), and Hobbs on a few parts swaps to more "boutique" stuff.  Whether that's even "necessary"... well, I'd have to have 2 sets of speakers to find that out for sure - but it ain't gonna hurt. 

What I have found out is that I really like the "standard" setup that Danny does for certain (not all) speakers, which involves Sonicaps on the tweeter circuit as standard, JB caps on the woofer circuit, and the red USCoils for inductors.  That's the exact setup I've been listening to with my Wilson Audio Duette.  And it sounds great!  It's made me want to push down that road a little further with foil inductors, "more exotic" caps on the tweeter, etc.  Where there is a notch filter, JB caps and the USCoil inductors will likely be used, as it's mentioned the sonic benefit for exotic stuff on a notch filter isn't to be found. 

So, I'm gonna throw some of the best stuff out there at this speaker.  I really, really like the Dynaudio Esotar tweeter... and I do plan to keep these speakers.

And then... when I put a 100Hz bypass on them and blend them with my subs... and the other "Special Thing" I haven't gotten into in more detail about, yet.   Very much looking forward to playing with these!

[jmimac351]

Duelund has some fairly new polypropylene caps... Duelund Cast PP. 

Crossover parts on the way... all Duelund Cast PP caps and Duelund resistors, including Duelund CAST PIO bypass caps.  Also using copper foil inductors.   

[jmimac351]

Figuring out layout with Frederick...

[jmimac351]

The boards are bigger than initial sizing...

[BrandonB]

Duelund has some fairly new polypropylene caps... Duelund Cast PP. 

Crossover parts on the way... all Duelund Cast PP caps and Duelund resistors, including Duelund CAST PIO bypass caps.  Also using copper foil inductors.   

For some reason those speakers look like they should have Deuland parts.

[jmimac351]

For some reason those speakers look like they should have Deuland parts.

I have another speaker that I couldn't pass up buying recently... Odyssey Lorelei.  It uses the same 8545 woofer as in the VSM but a different tweeter - Scan-Speak D2905-970000. The cabinet is bigger than the VSM, crossover is different (but has HIGH quality parts)... and it outputs MUCH more bass than the VSM.  The 8545 can output huge bass, not just for its size - but actual big bass.  I'm looking forward to hearing that better low end balance with this new VSM crossover. 

It seems it can hard to have your cake and eat it too with a woofer for 2-way design... good low end response AND smooth thru the midrange.  Danny fixed the issue the 8545 has around 700Hz and made it behave - so I should have both extension AND midrange from the 8545.  Seeing that result from the design, and being so happy with the job Danny did my Wilson Audio Duette, I am spending 2X money on the crossover for the VSM, and it has fewer parts than the Duette.  Right now I am breaking in a second set of crossovers for the Duette (a friend has other set of burned in crossovers) so I am hearing a direct comparison to "fresh" vs "broken in" crossover parts for the same crossover design, same speaker, same parts. I was also using Duelund JDM bypass caps on the other Duette crossover (which I sold to my friend).  For the Duette right now I have some little JB Bypass caps...so that is one difference between them.  I definitely prefer the sound of the broken in crossovers with Duelund bypass caps.  Hearing how transformative this can be, I went "more Duelund" / All for the VSM and spent the money.

Depending on how this works out I may end up building another set of crossovers for the Duette using better parts, like in the VSM.  There is definitely a lot going on with "parts" and I am a believer thru experience.

Here is the Odyssey Lorelei next to the Duette:

[BrandonB]

I have another speaker that I couldn't pass up buying recently... Odyssey Lorelei.  It uses the same 8545 woofer as in the VSM but a different tweeter - Scan-Speak D2905-970000. The cabinet is bigger than the VSM, crossover is different (but has HIGH quality parts)... and it outputs MUCH more bass than the VSM.  The 8545 can output huge bass, not just for its size - but actual big bass.  I'm looking forward to hearing that better low end balance with this new VSM crossover. 

It seems it can hard to have your cake and eat it too with a woofer for 2-way design... good low end response AND smooth thru the midrange.  Danny fixed the issue the 8545 has around 700Hz and made it behave - so I should have both extension AND midrange from the 8545.  Seeing that result from the design, and being so happy with the job Danny did my Wilson Audio Duette, I am spending 2X money on the crossover for the VSM, and it has fewer parts than the Duette.  Right now I am breaking in a second set of crossovers for the Duette (a friend has other set of burned in crossovers) so I am hearing a direct comparison to "fresh" vs "broken in" crossover parts for the same crossover design, same speaker, same parts. I was also using Duelund JDM bypass caps on the other Duette crossover (which I sold to my friend).  For the Duette right now I have some little JB Bypass caps...so that is one difference between them.  I definitely prefer the sound of the broken in crossovers with Duelund bypass caps.  Hearing how transformative this can be, I went "more Duelund" / All for the VSM and spent the money.

Depending on how this works out I may end up building another set of crossovers for the Duette using better parts, like in the VSM.  There is definitely a lot going on with "parts" and I am a believer thru experience.

Here is the Odyssey Lorelei next to the Duette:

How many sets of speakers do you have?  I have duelands bypassing on my NX-Otica's being built.  I wish I would have gotten Deuland resistors instead of path but they are much larger and harder to fit in the design. 

[jmimac351]

How many sets of speakers do you have?

Not enough.

I have duelands bypassing on my NX-Otica's being built.  I wish I would have gotten Deuland resistors instead of path but they are much larger and harder to fit in the design.

Merlin VSM crossover under construction by Frederick...