[1HungLow]

Which is potentially more cost effective, detailed, dynamic, and transparent?
Upgrading all of the capacitors & resistors in your CD Transport, DAC, and Pre-Amp or upgrading all of the Digital & Interconnect Cables?

[FullRangeMan]

Which is potentially more cost effective, detailed, dynamic, and transparent?
Upgrading all of the capacitors & resistors in your CD Transport, DAC, and Pre-Amp or upgrading all of the Digital & Interconnect Cables?

Hi,
As you already presented yourself I will move this topic to the Lab Circle.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Upgrading the cables are not going to give you those changes.  Good cables can make minor differences, although usb cables can make bigger differences depending upon you DAC.  Capacitors can make a big difference, but it is trial and error.  The best way to get the changes you want is to buy a new DAC and or preamp.

[jbl]

What does your system consist of?  Knowing that can help to get a better idea of what changes could provide you with more of the qualities you seek in your sound system.

[nlitworld]

With all my upgrades over the last few years, I've come to the idea that everything matters. As for which is most cost effective vs return on sound quality, it kinda depends on your baseline components of what you have now. I recently picked up a Jolida integrated amp and did a bunch of upgrading as well as a new usb cable, so I'll give you the breakdown on cost vs quality for my recent stuff from best return to worst return.

KLE binding posts and RCA connectors
Hapa Aero Cu USB (most expensive but biggest sound improvement)
Telefunken ECC801 preamp tubes
Gold Lion KT77 power tubes
Hapa Ember RCA w/ KLE Absolute connectors
Mundorf Supreme caps in signal path
Hexfred rectifier

Please keep in mind I have some seriously budget friendly components in my system, and a few pretty nice items. Could a new DAC improve sound more than a cable? Maybe. Best way to know is buy both and say F-it. 

[Speedskater]

Neither is effective!
What might be effective?
Loudspeakers
Room treatment and speaker placement
Making sure that everything is operating correctly

[nlitworld]

Room treatment and speaker placement

This is the single most cost effective and biggest improvement to sound reproduction you can invest in.

[morganc]

Which is potentially more cost effective, detailed, dynamic, and transparent?
Upgrading all of the capacitors & resistors in your CD Transport, DAC, and Pre-Amp or upgrading all of the Digital & Interconnect Cables?

Answer is simple and complex. Whichever is the weak link in your chain and no two are alike as this includes all your gear, speakers, room, etc. 

[mick wolfe]

Which is potentially more cost effective, detailed, dynamic, and transparent?
Upgrading all of the capacitors & resistors in your CD Transport, DAC, and Pre-Amp or upgrading all of the Digital & Interconnect Cables?

None of the above. Well designed components don't need internal component changes. Plus such changes in no way guaranty a positive result. Same answer in regard to cables. You've a posed a question that's impossible to answer without knowing what your system consists of. Short of that, the best answer which has already been given is room treatments and speaker placement.

[rollo]

Which is potentially more cost effective, detailed, dynamic, and transparent?
Upgrading all of the capacitors & resistors in your CD Transport, DAC, and Pre-Amp or upgrading all of the Digital & Interconnect Cables?

 Just getting a better front end.

charles

[1HungLow]

I have the following components in my hi-fi system. And the sound has a dip in the vocal midrange followed by a peak in the treble then a roll off in the upper treble.
But that roll off would be the Acoustats, as they naturally roll of at about 16k.

TRANSPORTS & DACS-OPPO BDP - 105D DARBEE EDITION - THETA DATA II-TRANSPORT - THETA DSPro PRIME-DAC - PIONEER ELITE DV-45A

PRE-AMP - NUFORCE HAP-100 - HEADPHONE AMP/PRE-AMP

POWER AMP - PARASOUND - A21+

SPEAKERS - ACCOUSTAT SPECTRA 1100 ELECTROSTATIC - I also made some custom speakers using 15" professional bass guitar speakers-GRS PT5010-8 10" PLANAR MIDS -
and GRS PT6816-8  8" PLANAR SLIM TWEETERS- While these sound better, there is still that thinness or dip in the midrange followed by a treble peak
CABLES - KIMBER KABLE 8TC-3 METER SPEAKER CABLE - WIREWORLD-LUNA 7 INTERCONNECTS - HAVE CANARE 75 OHM DIGITAL COAXIAL CABLE - QED PERFORMANCE COAXIAL CABLE

So, I figured that if I replaced the capacitors with much better quality ones starting with the Theta Data II CD Transport, that would cut out the harshness from the transport, smooth out the response and yet still be transparent and detailed. Then, if I still needed more refinement, I could do the same thing to the DAC. And then to the Pre-Amp if I need to.
Because, I have tried over a dozen different interconnect cables. And while they do make a difference, none of them as of yet make a difference in the frequency range that I need to address. Not without knocking down the level of detail by quite a few notches.
So, I think that upgrading the capacitors would cost less and have a much bigger impact on the sound.
What do you think?

[1HungLow]

Oh, and I have tried along with new cables, 2 different pre-amps and 3 different dacs.
The dacs and the pre-amps were about $1000 each and I sent them back.
Because, while they helped a little bit, it was not enough to warrant the extra expense.
I even tried a new CD transport and was not very impressed.

It's funny in that I have always modified other peoples systems or built speakers for them and they were so satisfied.
But, I can't seem to get my system on track, lol.
My motto used to be, "I don't make a lot of the things that you listen to. I make a lot of the things that you listen to, better!"

Thanks again

[nlitworld]

It sounds as if you need more focus on room treatments, speaker placement adjustments, and possibly speaker crossover modification. Nothing in your list of concerns would be fixed with capacitor upgrades on your dac and preamp. They can improve sound quality in tone and clarity, but they will not fix dips and spikes in response. What is your current speaker layout? How big of room, how far from walls, do you have them toe in at all, is there grill covers on the speaker fronts, etc.v:d 8__

[Speedskater]

It sounds as if you need more focus on room treatments, speaker placement adjustments, and possibly speaker crossover modification.

Exactly !!!!

Nothing in your list of concerns would be fixed with capacitor upgrades on your dac and preamp. They can improve sound quality in tone and clarity, but they will not fix dips and spikes in response..............

Doubtful that there will be any audible let alone meaningful change.

[nlitworld]

https://www.stereophile.com/content/acoustat-spectra-1100-loudspeaker-measurements

The review from stereophile seems they subjectively do some nice things with a few caveats that are explained in some measurements. Particularly look on this page at Fig.7 and Fig.8 photos of the off axis response and the waterfall. The off axis drops off considerably before returning with a vengeance about 10k. To fix this, do as much toe-in as possible to position them right at the listening position.

On a side note, those things are impedance monsters in that with the treble contour control set to high it drops to 1.1ohm at 20k. Set that control to medium and call it a day. Your Parasound is a good match here.

Start with moving your speakers around and possibly some more room treatments and see where that gets you. Should be some good improvement to be had with $0 investment. Can't beat that. If that doesn't fix things for you, I'd shop other speakers before tearing into your Theta components. Those "should" be way high enough quality to be using good materials inside.

[mick wolfe]

That's quite a potpourri of componentry.  A possible weak link(s) would appear to be amplification. I would audition a tube pre-amp for openers. Then maybe think about moving on from the A21. Not sure where the Theta DAC stacks up by today's standards, so I'll steer clear of that one. And once gain, address your room. Treatments are truly the shortcut to better sound and may save you some cash in the end.

[Rusty Jefferson]

By 'detail' I assume you mean resolution?  I don't know if anyone wants more detail.

To get the trifecta of better resolution, dynamics, and transparency (and who doesn't want all those?) I agree with Charles.

Just getting a better front end.

charles

....A possible weak link(s) would appear to be amplification. I would audition a tube pre-amp for openers. Then maybe think about moving on from the A21....

Disagree with this. The A-21+ is the only thing I'd keep from that list of gear as it's more than capable of running the very difficult loads those speakers place on the amplifier. I'd sell everything else, not replace internal parts in equipment, and get the best source you can afford, possibly a dac/preamp that can run the A-21+.

Apologies to the OP, this is what happens when you ask for advice. 

[1HungLow]

     Well, I just recently purchased the Parasound A21+ Amp because my McCormack DNA 1 amp finally bit the dust after 30 years. I could have sent it off to have it upgraded, but that would have cost $2400 plus shipping. I'm told that it's like getting a new and improved version of the amp.

I drove about 75 miles to listen to the Parasound in his system. It sounded even better by a small margin than my system sounded when it was new. Of course his system is closer to $100,000 and mine is closer to $10,000! But, it had the same transparency as my system did when mine was new before I had to replace my laser on my Theta. My daughter & I looked at each other after each song with a smile from ear to ear. And after the 7th song, we both said, we'll take it!
     When I 1st purchased the DNA 1, and the Theta Data II with the Theta dac along with the Acoustat Spectra 1100 speakers, everything sounded great together! Yet, I couldn't understand why the reviews kept talking about the earth shattering bass coming from the Theta, because the bass coming out of mine was super tight. Even though I read about the Acoustats having a boomy horrible bass driver,(which I have recently replaced with ones that are 3db down in response & sound a little better) I didn't experience any of this until my laser on my Theta went on the blink in 2007 and I sent it off to Theta for replacement. I ended up sending it back to Theta 3 times, because now when listening to the Theta, it sounded like you were listening to the music from outside of the house with the windows open, but with thick curtains drawn shut. I asked Theta if they had listened to my old laser, because it could still play some CD's and had such a transparent, resolving and dynamic sound before, and they said no they had not. So it seems that the original laser that came in my Theta was some sort of anomaly. But, it was the best anomaly that I've ever experienced in my system, breathtaking realism! I asked for my laser back, but they had thrown it away already!
      So, I have tried since I purchased the Parasound A21+ Amp to get the same sound that we heard through his system and also through mine a long time ago.

      I purchased an OPPO BDP-105D DARBEE EDITION because I've read so many good things about it.
(I'm not impressed, bass is not tight, but that is what the reviews said )
I tried it going through it's own DAC to my pre-amp. Through it's own DAC and directly into the Parasound Amp. Through the Theta DAC and my pre-amp. Also, by using the Oppo DAC & these other pre-amps & also coming out of the Oppo's coaxial digital outputs to numerous DACS. The Topping A90 Discrete, Topping Pre90, Topping D90LE, iFi audio Micro iDSD, Schiit Freya, iFi ZEN CAN Signature, Cambridge Audio DacMagic 200M, iFi Audio NEO iDSD, along with using the THETA DATA II-TRANSPORT & the PIONEER ELITE DV-45A Transport, of which the CD Drive is used by Ayre in their C5-xe CD Player.
And trying these other cables after breaking them in, DH Labs D-750 Digital Link, Shunyata Research Venom X Digital Link, AudioQuest Carbon Coaxial digital audio cable, Audience OhNo XLR Interconnect Cables along with handmade Gothem Interconnet Cables.

Room is 12' wide 15' deep 8' ceilings
Heavy drapes to the left 8' wide. Wood paneling on every wall except for behind listening area is sheetrock. Sofa at the back of the room 8' from speakers that are towed in facing listeners seat at about 23 degree angle. 2 recliners are 3' forward of sofa and on either side. Thick carpeted floor.

So, then the question remains:
Start off with room treatments?
Upgrade Capacitors starting with the CD Transports?
Upgrade cables to ones that help to correct the frequency response of the system?
Purchase a parametric equalizer to correct frequency response?
Or sell just about all gear while trying to save up enough money for a really nice system?
I will probably be dead before I can save up that much money, lol.

Thank you!

[WGH]

And the sound has a dip in the vocal midrange followed by a peak in the treble then a roll off in the upper treble.
But that roll off would be the Acoustats, as they naturally roll of at about 16k.

Looking at John Atkinson's measurements, you are hearing exactly what the Acoustat Spectra 1100 speakers were designed to sound like.



Acoustat Spectra 1100 loudspeaker review and measurments
https://www.stereophile.com/content/acoustat-spectra-1100-loudspeaker

The review says that careful amplifier selection and room size makes a big difference.

By ignoring the sensitivity of these speakers to sloppy setup and indiscriminate selection of power amp and cable, the Class B recommendation will most surely be compromised. These speakers require care and nurturing if they are to sing.

In particular, the woofer region is elevated by 6dB or so compared with the general level of the panel, while this panel's overall smooth response is broken by a degree of presence-region boost and an early top-octave rolloff.

In a larger room, the outputs of the two disparate drivers would integrate better.


Just by chance your homemade speakers probably have the same problem.

As you have found out, no amount of equipment change-ups or cable swaps will compensate for the wrong speaker in the wrong room. 

[FullRangeMan]

Please note this thread on speaker placement>
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=163879.0