[rooze]

If you were running Dunlavy's before, then your system has been tuned to bring out the best of those speakers.  You should try out some different tubes, cables and speaker wire to really optimize the sound for the X3's. 

For a cable, I'd recommend the Hapa Audio QS which is silver and has a very large amount of detail but is not analytical sounding at all.  Just very, very clear.  Here's the link:

https://hapaaudio.com/shop/analog-cables/rca-cables/quiescence-s-silver/

And for speaker wire, I really like the Nimak Nova, again a silver wire, but it's dead-soft annealed and then beeswax treated before being encased in teflon tubing.  Very high resolution but not bright sounding at all.  A fabulous match for the X3's:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124260354681?hash=item1cee7e8a79:g:xEgAAOSwC-tfDg3B

What brand of tubes are you running in your Allnic amp?

Thanks for the suggestions and links, I'll check them out.

I just retubed with an octet of Gold Lion 300b. I have another octet of Emission Labs 300b XLS tubes which sound nicer, but at $1000 a pair I won't throw them back in the system until I have things working well together... 

[abomwell]

Not yet, I've always sat tight against the back wall in this room due to it only being 18' long. I've heavily treated the back wall with QRD panels and also an absorptive panel behind my noggin. You can see it here - excuse the mess



The tall panel to the right of the photo is a bass trap and I move it a foot to the right of where it is when I'm using the system.

Ethan Winer suggests the best place for the listening position is 38% of the room's length. If you can, try listening from that spot and see if the problem goes away. If you have a peak in the mid-bass it can also affect the time domain causing the veiling you hear. If the problem is mitigated by sitting at that spot try readjusting the speakers' location to accommodate an equilateral triangle and go from there.

[Tyson]

I agree, listening spot is likely too close to the rear wall. 

Here’s a trick to getting the best spot for bass response.  Download an app that has an FFT function.  It’s basically a fancy RTA.  If you have an iPhone, I recommend AudioTools by Studio Six Digital.  It’s like $6 if memory serves but it’s well worth it.  Download tha app, open it and go to the FFT tool.

Next, play some full range pink noise through your speakers.  Look at the FFT from your listening spot, you should see any/all lumps in your frequency response.  Now, leave the pink noise playing while you walk around the room. You will see how the response changes in real time.

Now you can see the best place to put your seat.  No guesswork.  You can use this same technique to place your speakers as well.

[Desertpilot]

It's a good point. I think I've been spoiled with the Dunlavys as they do so much right and avoid the typical boxy colorations that come from most box speakers.

I don't want to be mean (honestly).  But, you seem so incredibly homesick for the Donlavys.  I've watched your thread for a few days now.  At this point, I'm not sure you can overcome your objection to the X3s.  Give it some time.  Reposition your speakers.  Adjust room treatments. 

Edit:  Likely I said this wrong.  I came from a mass market bookshelf to the X3s so for me it was a huge improvement right out of the box.  They get even better over time.  But, I do not have any experience with comparing several outstanding speakers.

[rooze]

I don't want to be mean (honestly).  But, you seem so incredibly homesick for the Donlavys.  I've watched your thread for a few days now.  At this point, I'm not sure you can overcome your objection to the X3s.  Give it some time.  Reposition your speakers.  Adjust room treatments.  At some point you have to give up.  Sorry to say that.  Truly.

That's a peculiar statement to make. I've only had them a little over a week. They sound great. There are issues that may or may not be related to the room that I'm trying to work out. I'm committed to trying new things with room treatments, speaker placements etc. Yes, there are some things the Dunlavy speakers do better than X3s. But, as I said in my initial post, the Dunlavys are sold, I've moved on.
Is it a case where one can only make comments in this circle if they're 100% positive in regards to Spatial Audio performance, and if not, we're politely asked to "move along". I doubt it. "Incredibly homesick" ??? Really??

[Desertpilot]

Is it a case where one can only make comments in this circle if they're 100% positive in regards to Spatial Audio performance, and if not, we're politely asked to "move along". I doubt it. "Incredibly homesick" ??? Really??

Not at all.  Apologies if my comment seemed out of line.

[Mr. Big]

Going from any speaker that you have had for years and have gotten used to the sound of them within your system and then going to a totally different design will always be an adjustment and that was the same for me going from Quad ESL's to the Sapphire M3's. A week's time is zip, it took me a month to figure out setup, toe-in, etc, spikes no spikes, and such now after a year I don't miss the Quads at all. Change is always difficult because in audio we always compare what we are used to hearing to something we inserted in our system now, and speakers are always a major player in that regard. Burn-in time was long, and I am not one who plays them 24/7 to burn them in, I just play music when I wanted to hear it, so my time of the speakers settling in was months. Even yesterday I was listening and I said this recording sounds better than it did a few months ago. Glad I hung in because today I have one of the better sounding systems that I've owned in 35 years or more in this hobby. Spatial's are a big part of it.

[doggie]

Burn-in time was long, and I am not one who plays them 24/7 to burn them in, I just play music when I wanted to hear it, so my time of the speakers settling in was months. Even yesterday I was listening and I said this recording sounds better than it did a few months ago. Glad I hung in because today I have one of the better sounding systems that I've owned in 35 years or more in this hobby. Spatial's are a big part of it.

+1. The burn-in thread should be a sticky. Nearly every new post contains something about growing pains with the speaker and how, with only a few hours on them, to tweak the feet, position or room to improve them.

The best tweak for these great speakers is patience.

[rooze]

+1. The burn-in thread should be a sticky. Nearly every new post contains something about growing pains with the speaker and how, with only a few hours on them, to tweak the feet, position or room to improve them.

The best tweak for these great speakers is patience.

As I've said, these speakers were purchased 'used' they are fully broken-in.

[rooze]

If anyone else wants to 'jump to the defense' of these speakers, why not read my original post first, where I've said this:

Overall I'd say I'm pleased with the X3s and I've no deep regrets over parting ways with the Dunlavys [sigh]. I think with some patience and more attention to room acoustics and speaker placement, I'll get these to sound the way I expect they should. At that point, I'll be happy. 


How that can trigger comments like "But, you seem so incredibly homesick for the Donlavys." and "the speakers aren't broken-in", I just for the life of me can't understand. No, they are not perfect as I'm hearing them at this point after only a few listening sessions, and I'm trying to work out some of the weaknesses as they appear in my room. If people aren't interested in helping that's fine, but really, it's just a pair of speakers, I didn't insult anyone's children 

[ric]

I think it was the "sigh" comment that gave others the wrong impression. Perhaps this begs the question, can a speaker be too clear, or revealing and I suspect the answer would only be in relation to the amp, cables, and source as well as the synergy between them. From this perspective, I'm kind of glad I don't have a mega buck system to deal with.
    From working in construction/remodeling I learned a long time ago that when you do an improvement (remodel, speaker change) it affects the thing NEXT to it. For instance, you build a new entry way and then you notice that the sidewalk looks crappy. Just my two cents...

[Tangram]

If anyone else wants to 'jump to the defense' of these speakers, why not read my original post first, where I've said this:

Overall I'd say I'm pleased with the X3s and I've no deep regrets over parting ways with the Dunlavys [sigh]. I think with some patience and more attention to room acoustics and speaker placement, I'll get these to sound the way I expect they should. At that point, I'll be happy. 


How that can trigger comments like "But, you seem so incredibly homesick for the Donlavys." and "the speakers aren't broken-in", I just for the life of me can't understand. No, they are not perfect as I'm hearing them at this point after only a few listening sessions, and I'm trying to work out some of the weaknesses as they appear in my room. If people aren't interested in helping that's fine, but really, it's just a pair of speakers, I didn't insult anyone's children 

These sorts of responses come with the territory when posting on a niche forum like the Spatial Circle. For me, I had to adjust to the speakers and it took time. Yes, break-in is real but you cover that off by mentioning they were purchased used and fully broken in. The main thing with me, in my room, is that the M3s beg to be played loud, which is what I did. About 5 db louder than my old max. But because they are so dynamic, the big swings in volume was resulting at times in too much treble, resulting in that familiar, scratchy sound that has you reaching for the volume button. Now I realize that for me, in my room (can't stress this enough) I can handle peaks of about 85 db, after which the sound degrades. But that is plenty loud enough for me (and for anyone else in the house).

Enjoy your new speakers!

[Mr. Big]

It is true that the more dynamic the speaker is and the more efficient the more upfront it will sound when compared to a much less efficient speaker with less dynamic swings. This is why Quads sound so pleasing and musical they are somewhat limited in those areas but make up for it by being so coherent. They never in your face music just flows in one voice top to bottom plus limited top end. But they are so good in all other areas, but the Spatial will sound more direct compared to them due to their advantages in dynamics, efficiency, and more impactful bottom end. The same thing you will hear with the cables that are more dynamic and less laid back, you learn to turn the volume down because of the dynamic swing and much more, etc. Spatial's can go from soft to loud on a dime, and the less compressed the recording the more you will hear that. Cannot play the Spatial like I played the Quads, and the Quads I could not play like I did the Dynaudio Confidence 5's.

[doggie]

As I've said, these speakers were purchased 'used' they are fully broken-in.

Actually unless we missed something all that you said was "on the way back picked up a set of X3s". No mention of "used", much less how long the previous owner had actually played them.

Just trying to set expectations for others who are considering them. These are not plug n' play speakers, but will greatly reward one after some time and effort.

[rooze]

Actually unless we missed something all that you said was "on the way back picked up a set of X3s". No mention of "used", much less how long the previous owner had actually played them.

Actually yes you missed something, I stated it quite clearly in my second post and in another later post and again here in this post....these speakers are used and fully broken in.

Can we just delete this whole thread, I'm done with this nonsense.

Happy Holidays.

Rooze

[Tyson]

Actually yes you missed something, I stated it quite clearly in my second post and in another later post and again here in this post....these speakers are used and fully broken in.

Can we just delete this whole thread, I'm done with this nonsense.

Happy Holidays.

Rooze

I was hoping that my post on how to measure your room response using your phone was helpful.

[rooze]

I was hoping that my post on how to measure your room response using your phone was helpful.

There've been a number of helpful posts, thanks. I use REW with a UMIK-1 with the miniDSP, when I get time I'll measure the room again.

[doggie]

Actually yes you missed something, I stated it quite clearly in my second post and in another later post and again here in this post....these speakers are used and fully broken in.

You are right. I am wrong. Yes, I missed that and you even corrected me earlier.

I was not defending the speakers. They do not need it, but they may not be for everyone. I was simply trying to help you save unnecessary effort and expense by working against "possible" remaining break-in.

If you have not done so, consider reading through the other threads here. Most of your concerns have already been presented and addressed by others.

Hopefully you will still hear advice that will work for you or else time will simply sort it out naturally.

[Tyson]

There've been a number of helpful posts, thanks. I use REW with a UMIK-1 with the miniDSP, when I get time I'll measure the room again.

Nice.  I also have a nice mic and mic stand to do detailed measurements from the listening spot (Earthworks M23 calibrated mic), but I would recommend that you still to the phone measuring on top of the calibrated mic measurements with REW.  Here's why - the calibrated mic will give you excellent results from a single listening spot.  But, the phone app will let you go mobile.  So you can measure as you walk around the room, which lets you get real time measures of different locations in a very fluid way. 

Granted, it's not 'perfect' measures like the calibrated mic with REW gives you, but you don't need perfect for this.  The phone will let you see where the most egregious areas are, as well as were the best areas are. 

[Ozspace]

Nice.  I also have a nice mic and mic stand to do detailed measurements from the listening spot (Earthworks M23 calibrated mic), but I would recommend that you still to the phone measuring on top of the calibrated mic measurements with REW.  Here's why - the calibrated mic will give you excellent results from a single listening spot.  But, the phone app will let you go mobile.  So you can measure as you walk around the room, which lets you get real time measures of different locations in a very fluid way. 

Granted, it's not 'perfect' measures like the calibrated mic with REW gives you, but you don't need perfect for this.  The phone will let you see where the most egregious areas are, as well as were the best areas are.

I am a dinosaur when it comes to the latest stuff in audio, so I have found your posting about using pink noise and the I Phone app very interesting and informative.
Planning to get what I need to do the job, and then get a mate who is not a luddite to help me try it out with the present system, and then again when the X4s arrive in the future.

Thanks Tyson.
Paul.