[rooze]

Hello,

I've been on a quest to find new speakers to replace my old friend the Dunlavy SC-IIIs. I've gone through a few different speakers in the 3 years I've owned the Dunlavys but none have replaced them in my system for long. I've tried Sonus Faber, Merlin Music Systems, Tyler Acoustics, Klipsch (Heresy and Khorns), Dali Mentors, Castle, Quad ESL57, and a couple more I can't even recall. They all came with their own unique approach to recreating the music and each had its own set of strengths and weaknesses, but ultimately the Dunlavy's natural, cohesive, and expansive sound would always win out.

A couple of weeks back I did something really stupid, I sold the Dunlavys.

Last weekend I delivered the Dunlavys to their new owner and on the way back picked up a set of X3s.

I'd heard Spatial Audio briefly at CAF2019 and was quite impressed with their sound, given the obvious constraints of a small hotel room. I've owned dipoles in various forms over the years including Quads, Apogee, Magnepans, and Carver Amazing Plats, so it's a style of presentation that I generally like. But the X3s were an unknown entity and some would say the wrong choice of speaker for a modest 16x18x8.5 dedicated music room.

Getting them into the system was pretty straightforward, I dropped them in the vacant spot previously occupied by the Dunlavy SC-IIIs, 76" off the front wall and around 29" from the side walls. I have my room treatments optimized for this position (catching first reflection points etc), however, they're currently set up primarily for a sealed box design, with minimal treatments on the front wall (behind the speaker) and a bank of QRD panels on the opposite wall behind the chair.

Most speakers have worked well in this position, requiring adjustments of only a few inches to get them dialled in. Not so with the X3s. They didn't sound right. The first thing to strike me was the unwanted localization of instruments seemingly attached to the speakers. They did not 'disappear' as I'm used to. Toe-in helped a little, but not much. Also, there was a thickness in the mid-bass. Geddy Lee's Rickenbacker didn't sound sharp and defined and lost some of its usual tone and timbre.

So I moved the speakers back closer to the front wall starting at 48" and over the course of the week moved them forward incrementally until I found a good spot, which happens to be at the 60" mark, 16" or so closer to the wall than my SC-IIIs had sat. In this position, the speakers disappear well and create a good soundstage, high, wide, fairly deep but not as deep as the SC-IIIs. Sitting an additional 16" or so away from the speakers also helps with the top end, which sounded a little too energetic when sitting closer.
The mid-bass issue persisted so I set about replacing the stock feet to see if things would tighten up.
I know people are having success with IsoAcoustic Gaia feet, and I'll probably order a set of those at some point, but I've had excellent results with other speakers using a modified spring system, which is both cheap and very effective. Picture below.



They don't look great but as I said I'll probably change them out at some point to the Gaia II. They do work extremely well. The sound has changed for the better across the board. Tighter images, more depth and definition, more air around instruments and performers. But still that slight thickness and veiling in the mid-bass.

At this point, I haven't introduced my swarm configured subs into the equation. I'd rather remove the mid-bass issue first, before activating the subs.

I think part of the issue might be the way I have my room treatments configured. I probably need to move the QRD panels from the back wall to the front, to diffuse the back-wave. Unfortunately, that's easier said than done. There are four panels and they weigh a couple hundred pounds apiece, plus....they block access to the front door!

You can see where I had them previously below. This is where they need to be, I think:




So, it's been a week since they arrived and I'm making progress. Moving the treatments and replacing the feet with Gaia footers will be tasks for another day. Overall I'd say I'm pleased with the X3s and I've no deep regrets over parting ways with the Dunlavys [sigh]. I think with some patience and more attention to room acoustics and speaker placement, I'll get these to sound the way I expect they should. At that point, I'll be happy. 

That's my story and I'm sticking with it for now. 

Oh...a couple questions:

• Has anyone else had mid-bass issues with X3s, and if so, can you share what you did to overcome them, please?
• Does anyone have a copy of the owner's manual for these speakers? I'd like to see if I can tweak anything on the Subwoofer, perhaps drop the crossover point a little to try and improve the mid-bass. [I can fill a null with my EQ'd Swarm subs, but I won't use EQ on the main speakers]
• Does anyone have suggestions on the setup of room treatments per the above? Is it worth the trouble of moving the QRD panels, in your experience?

And a couple pics...






Cheers

Rooze

[abomwell]

Great writeup rooze! I assume, when you speak of mid-bass, you are referring to frequencies between 200Hz and 500Hz. Is that correct? Have you measured the frequency response? If so do you see anything like a broad band peak in that region? I have a peak centered just below 500Hz on my X5's which I assume is room related since Clayton told me he doesn't get that measurement result where he is. I was able to improve that with parametric EQ.

[Daryl Zero]

Briefly, congrats on your new speakers. You can get the user guides online at Spatial Audio Lab here: https://www.spatialaudiolab.com/support#resources

[geerock]

You are hell and away from really enjoying what those things can do.  One week is nothing.  When I got my X5's I was very disappointed and was convinced I was going to ship them back.  But everyone, including Clayton said hang on.....and I'm glad I did.  You've had some nice speakers pass through your system so you know what good music sounds like.  Dont go too crazy with set up or treatments until you get some hours on those things.  They will sing.

[DBT AUDIO]

Oh...a couple questions:

• Has anyone else had mid-bass issues with X3s, and if so, can you share what you did to overcome them, please
  
  Rooze
  

Excellent review Rooze.  I have the X5s and experienced the opposite. My mid range seemed thin and highs somewhat forward.  What gear do you have paired with your X3s; source for music, DAC, preamp and amp?  I have a HoloAudio Spring 3 KTE DAC, PrimaLuna EVO 400 preamp and power amp combo.  I’m auditioning an LTA preamp and power amp next week as I have done everything I reasonably can to tone down the forwardness I’ve been experiencing.  I love everything about the X5s, but I’m working on the brightness.  So, for me, I’m thinking the preamp and amp may be the issue?  So, I’m curious what you’re system is comprised of?

Thanks for sharing your experience!

Pic of my current setup below.



[/list]

[Tyson]

If my experience with the X3's is anything to go by, you'll have major improvements in sound at 100 hours, 200 hours and finally at 500 hours.

[rooze]

Hey guys,
I should've been clear that these were purchased by me on the used market, so break-in is not an issue.
Rooze

[rooze]

Excellent review Rooze.  I have the X5s and experienced the opposite. My mid range seemed thin and highs somewhat forward.  What gear do you have paired with your X3s; source for music, DAC, preamp and amp?  I have a HoloAudio Spring 3 KTE DAC, PrimaLuna EVO 400 preamp and power amp combo.  I’m auditioning an LTA preamp and power amp next week as I have done everything I reasonably can to tone down the forwardness I’ve been experiencing.  I love everything about the X5s, but I’m working on the brightness.  So, for me, I’m thinking the preamp and amp may be the issue?  So, I’m curious what you’re system is comprised of?

Thanks for sharing your experience!


[/list]

Hi DBT Audio,
I've a Feickert Woodpecker with Kuzma Stogi 12VTA and a Benz Micro LP-S, Manley Steelhead RC which I'm currently using as a linestage since I sold my Epifania a couple weeks back. I've used mostly digital for the past week as it's easier to flip between test tracks, Denafrips Terminator II, Denafrips Gaia DDC, SGC i5 file server/UltraRendu. Amps are a 300b design - Allnic Audio A-6000, they use a quad of 300b's per side for 50w, so plenty of juice.
I'd describe the digital front end as leaning a little to the warm side but I've never noticed any emphasis around the 400hz range.

@abomwell - yes, I'd say 200-400hz is where it's at. I haven't measured the FR yet, I'll do that when I reconfigure the subwoofer setup to match the X3s (miniDSP 2x4HD/UMIK1).

[Mr. Big]

soooo many posts on the break-in period. Really to say after a week they still do not sound right, well that should be as it is.

[ric]

I had my Dunlavy SCIII's for almost 20 years and bought the (original) M3 (turbo S) also used, without hearing them first. There were certain recordings the Dunlavy's did very very well, but comparatively they were few and far between compared to the OB Spatials. The "liveness" of OB as well as the imaging make for a wonderful listening experience. But, for you, having a midbass hump can be problematic and as you know the answer could be in the room, the listening position, or the speaker position.
   Have you tried moving the speakers starting about 2' from the front wall and increasing the distance from the sidewalls? My understanding is that OB works contrary to box speakers, in that the closer you move them to the corners, the LESS bass there is.  Things like speaker feet are usually icing on the cake and would probably not have much to do with solving a bass problem.
   Have you watch any of Denis Foley's (Acoustic Fields) videos on YT? Some of his bass solutions use a very large box with flexible baffles and charcoal and weigh a ton, which he says is what you need to address those standing waves.
Good luck!

[morganc]

Hey guys,
I should've been clear that these were purchased by me on the used market, so break-in is not an issue.
Rooze

Just FYI.  I also bought a pair on the used market and in fact the break in was an issue as they continued to improve for a few months into the break in period. 

[abomwell]

Have you experimented with the listening position? A foot or two forwards or backwards makes a huge difference in mid-bass measurements in my room.

[DBT AUDIO]

Hi DBT Audio,
I've a Feickert Woodpecker with Kuzma Stogi 12VTA and a Benz Micro LP-S, Manley Steelhead RC which I'm currently using as a linestage since I sold my Epifania a couple weeks back. I've used mostly digital for the past week as it's easier to flip between test tracks, Denafrips Terminator II, Denafrips Gaia DDC, SGC i5 file server/UltraRendu. Amps are a 300b design - Allnic Audio A-6000, they use a quad of 300b's per side for 50w, so plenty of juice.
I'd describe the digital front end as leaning a little to the warm side but I've never noticed any emphasis around the 400hz range.

@abomwell - yes, I'd say 200-400hz is where it's at. I haven't measured the FR yet, I'll do that when I reconfigure the subwoofer setup to match the X3s (miniDSP 2x4HD/UMIK1).

Nice setup!  Did you hear a substantial improvement with the UltraRendu in the chain?  I’ve been debating on trying one of the Sonore network players.[/list]

[abomwell]

I used to own Linkwitz Orion's which were also open baffle dipoles. When I first heard them they sounded bloated because they were actually flat between 200Hz to 300Hz. I'd been used to hearing speakers that had that very common suck out in that range (most do) that when I actually heard flat response it sounded wrong. I'd be really interested, after you measure the FR at some point, what you find out.

[doggie]

Just FYI.  I also bought a pair on the used market and in fact the break in was an issue as they continued to improve for a few months into the break in period.

Good point. I suspect that some owners sold their X series because they were not willing to wait the 400+ hours to see what they could really do. I bought mine new and at 200 hours I was wondering if they were for me. Patience prevailed and now they really shine. I have not kept a record of the hours they have on them but I would estimate it to be approaching 400. They are still improving.

[rooze]

   Have you tried moving the speakers starting about 2' from the front wall and increasing the distance from the sidewalls? My understanding is that OB works contrary to box speakers, in that the closer you move them to the corners, the LESS bass there is.  Things like speaker feet are usually icing on the cake and would probably not have much to do with solving a bass problem.
   Have you watch any of Denis Foley's (Acoustic Fields) videos on YT? Some of his bass solutions use a very large box with flexible baffles and charcoal and weigh a ton, which he says is what you need to address those standing waves.
Good luck!

I didn't start as close as 2' from the front wall, it's counter-intuitive to have a dipole that close, I've never had good results with anything less than around 40" or so with dipoles (timing of the rear wave). My starting point was at 48" (after having failed to get them to sound right where the Dunlavy were at - 76"). I've ended up at 60" in one-inch increments and can't say that any of the transition points really improved the mid-bass hump by much. I haven't played much with distance to side walls other than to avoid using a similar distance from the side walls as the front wall. 60"F and 29"S is where I'm settled. Cardas' calculator suggests 63"F and 53"S, but I just don't like having the speakers that close together, and with the figure of 8 radiation pattern from a dipole I don't see why they should be that far from a side wall to begin with.

I haven't seen anything on YT from Dennis Foley, I'll take a look tonight - thanks.

[rooze]

Have you experimented with the listening position? A foot or two forwards or backwards makes a huge difference in mid-bass measurements in my room.

Not yet, I've always sat tight against the back wall in this room due to it only being 18' long. I've heavily treated the back wall with QRD panels and also an absorptive panel behind my noggin. You can see it here - excuse the mess



The tall panel to the right of the photo is a bass trap and I move it a foot to the right of where it is when I'm using the system.

[rooze]

Nice setup!  Did you hear a substantial improvement with the UltraRendu in the chain?  I’ve been debating on trying one of the Sonore network players.[/list]

Thanks. I went from an Aurender N100H to the SGC i5 / UltraRendu and UltraDigital. I then replaced the UltraDigital with the Denafrips Gaia. The step-up from Aurender to i5 was a fairly big one, well worth the hassle of going from one box to multiple boxes. Replacing the UD with the Gaia was also a big improvement. The Terminator was a little too warm sounding without the Gaia and didn't resolve fine detail too well. With the Gaia, all of that changed, it's far more neutral and resolving than sans Gaia. An expensive upgrade but well worth it. (it allows use of the i2s format).

[rooze]

I used to own Linkwitz Orion's which were also open baffle dipoles. When I first heard them they sounded bloated because they were actually flat between 200Hz to 300Hz. I'd been used to hearing speakers that had that very common suck out in that range (most do) that when I actually heard flat response it sounded wrong. I'd be really interested, after you measure the FR at some point, what you find out.

It's a good point. I think I've been spoiled with the Dunlavys as they do so much right and avoid the typical boxy colorations that come from most box speakers. But the X3 (in my room) does have an issue. It isn't just the slight hump, there's a veiling in the mid-bass that's noticeable when you listen to certain instruments. That isn't something that would show up on an FR sweep. There isn't quite the clarity and focus that I've heard from other speaker designs in my room, in the mid-bass region. I don't know what type of XO he uses, but with the XO point set at 90hz, there shouldn't be any of the subwoofer output up in the 200-400hz region. Turning the sub off altogether is something I haven't gotten around to trying yet. I've just had so little time to mess with these since bringing them home a week ago on Sunday. I'll figure out what's going on when I have a day or two to tinker.

[Tyson]

If you were running Dunlavy's before, then your system has been tuned to bring out the best of those speakers.  You should try out some different tubes, cables and speaker wire to really optimize the sound for the X3's. 

For a cable, I'd recommend the Hapa Audio QS which is silver and has a very large amount of detail but is not analytical sounding at all.  Just very, very clear.  Here's the link:

https://hapaaudio.com/shop/analog-cables/rca-cables/quiescence-s-silver/

And for speaker wire, I really like the Nimak Nova, again a silver wire, but it's dead-soft annealed and then beeswax treated before being encased in teflon tubing.  Very high resolution but not bright sounding at all.  A fabulous match for the X3's:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124260354681?hash=item1cee7e8a79:g:xEgAAOSwC-tfDg3B

What brand of tubes are you running in your Allnic amp?