I AM SO FKN PISSED

rosconey · « **on:** 24 Mar 2005, 02:26 pm »

screw audio-when you have to deal with ups the whole world fuckin sucks.
bought a tempest,remote inside was damaged durring delivery,everything elese worked fine-send it back to get remote fixed, get it back and it has a transformer hum so i sent it back.got it back a hour or so ago bottom staples torn out of box from the gentle ups touch- new transformer hums.
nothing in the system changed between repairs.lifted grounds changed wires did it all.

this isnt a issue with klaus or odyssey-he put a new transformer in and it was serviced fast.

i think its time for a national shoot ups guy's day-let all the people they have screwed every year into the local ups facility and you can shoot a dumb ass employee for every package they destroyed of yours.

bikeman · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 02:42 pm »

i think its time for a national shoot ups guy's day-let all the people they have screwed every year into the local ups facility and you can shoot a dumb ass employee for every package they destroyed of yours.

I understand your frustration but blaming the guys who work for UPS for the problem is a bit like blaming soldiers for a war. UPS's handling of packages is by design. Screwing up X number of packages is perfectly acceptable in the name of speed. I try to avoid UPS whenever possible just on principle. Other shippers have similar policies.

David

jcoat007 · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 03:03 pm »

This is like the Coke and Pepsi debate. I prefer FedEx Ground to UPS. I have had no issues with FedEx but plenty of them with UPS. I know others have had the opposite experience.

craig223 · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 03:40 pm »

A Fedex employee stole a power amp I bought off of eBay. The shipper put the amp into a Sony TV box. It took me 2 months to get reimbursed, and they refused to pay me the entire shipping amount.

MaxCast · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 03:50 pm »

Well rosco, if it will make you feel any better I'll send you a free subscription to Better Homes and Garden and a Betty Crocker cook book.

Sorry to hear about the Tempest.

Jon L · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 04:30 pm »

I feel your pain. There's no way I'm sending/receiving anything without double-boxing with tightly packed peanuts and/or air bags. Even then, I've had plenty of gear arrive with gaping holes in the boxes to know INsurance is mandatory.

It also seems that if you stick that "Fragile" sticker on, the shipping workers seem to enjoy throwing it around a bit harder. Just venting their frustrations?

Eduardo AAVM · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 04:57 pm »

Now I have to say... normally UPS is fine, no damage never, not even with Lorelei speakers but now thay lost one "stratos size" box, "fortunately" it was the 2nd box with accesories and not the one with an amp, but still hundred of dollars are at risk, damn it... How can they loose a box that big ? Who si going to refund the time an attention deviated to this issue ?

I just hope nothing worse happens...

rosconey · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 05:40 pm »

they did some kind of damage-had a real loud ground loop type hum when switched to tt , it went away but now the volume must be cranked for sound-tt is new. if i play a cd and keep it selected at tt i can hear the cd

and a transformer hum is coming from the unit, doesnt get louder with volume at the speakers like a ground loop-stays steady.very annoying with quiet passages

8thnerve · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 05:52 pm »

Quote from: Eduardo AAVM

Now I have to say... normally UPS is fine, no damage never, not even with Lorelei speakers but now thay lost one "stratos size" box, "fortunately" it was the 2nd box with accesories and not the one with an amp, but still hundred of dollars are at risk, damn it... How can they loose a box that big ? Who si going to refund the time an attention deviated to this issue ?

I just hope nothing worse happens...

UPS international is a whole different ballgame. Usually much more easy on the packages. One trick I learned from Naim Audio, is that if it is insured for more than $5000, they are required to hand truck it through the warehouses instead of using the infamous conveyor belts with multiple 10 foot drops.

Lost boxes are a lost cause, the only benefit is that they will pay the claim faster. Remember though with claims, you have to call daily and bug them if you want it taken care of quickly. They will simply "forget" if you don't bug them. Seriously.

Honestly though, I am not sure why so many people are surprised about this. This is the basis for the American capitalist marketplace. In order to be big and successful you have to be just as bad as you possibly can without tipping the scales to be on top, because bad is cheaper. As was mentioned before in this thread, it is a numbers game. They know they can kill and lose a certain amount of packages, and screw over people on a certain amount of claims and still be business as usual. No one will do anything about it because the votes are essentially purchased by the corporations so the cycle continues. I can only assume that we are all okay with this as we continue to vote for these politicians, and probably because everyone thinks that they will be rich one day and be able to take advantage of all these loopholes and upper class benefits. The thing is, we won't be rich one day, and we are just paying the uber-wealthy as they laugh all the way to the bank. Sorry to digress, but I just don't understand how we let this happen every day. Every other country in the world stares and wonders why we keep shooting ourselves in the foot. I know many of you will say, "It's more complicated than that." You know what, it isn't. The government is for sale. And how many people do you know that can afford to buy it have ever given you a dime?

But, uh, anyway, UPS sucks, yeah! I use FedEx now after too many incidents with UPS and DHL. One trick to use with FedEx is if you use the internet shipping, when you print out your ground manifest, make sure you keep an extra copy. That is the only record you have of your insurance and they will refuse your claim unless you can prove you put insurance on it. Other than that they are fine. They still break stuff, but it seems less often.

Eduardo AAVM · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 06:02 pm »

Lost cause ?????????

Soundbitten · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 07:12 pm »

8thnerve hit the nail on the head . Corporations have bought the U.S. government . They are , in effect , responsible for nothing.

rosconey · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 09:38 pm »

ups is picking up the unit tomorrow and shipping it back to klaus after inspection-lol

wonder what they will say is wrong with the package so they dont have to pay?

this totally sucks-more time with no dam tunes unless i run the cd direct.but i cant use my new tuna or new turn table or dvd.

i still want a shoot a ups employee day-i bet after the first one they start delivering stuff in good shape

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 10:46 pm »

Funny how after you ranted about capitalism, you then mentioned that you now switched to FedEx. Hm.

8thnerve · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 10:49 pm »

Quote from: ooheadsoo

Funny how after you ranted about capitalism, you then mentioned that you now switched to FedEx. Hm.

Well, I don't run nearly fast enough to deliver packages myself. Have a better idea?

Captain Humble · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 11:32 pm »

Gentlemen,
I'm no happier than the rest of you.
I've had gear damaged on 3 occasions.
Too many of us share similar experiences and posts of this kind are common.
I agree that we do have a problem.

Conclusion:
We keep taking the same knife to a gun fight and then mourning for our dead and bitching that our enemy doesn't play fair.

Reality:
Damaged audio gear at the hands of UPS and FedX is a way of life.
We have enough history to know this beast well.
Our current packaging isn't up to the task.

Options:
Continue with business as usual and bitch when they destroy our gear.
OR
We can accept UPS & FedX for who and what they are and recognize that they aren't going to change their proceedures for a handful of guys that like music. The only real solution that I see is to bite the bullet and spend additional money for packaging that's designed to take their abuse and keep our gear safe. I doubt it would cost more than $30 per amp to protect it from their standard and typical abuse.

If that makes sense, the next time you buy ask the seller for premium packaging as a condition of the sale and expect to pay for it.

How does it go?
"The first time the mule kicks us it's the mule's fault. The second time it's ours.

Jeff

jpsartre · « **Reply #15 on:** 25 Mar 2005, 12:46 am »

Given that the state of shipping was/is/will remain the same (bad), shouldn't manufacturers alter their packaging accordingly? It's funny how audio companies will spent hundreds of hours and thousands of $ inventing ways to perfect the sound reproduction, only to expose their fine-tuned instruments to the stress of shipping without proper packing (note: definition of "proper packing"=survive the worst anticipated abuse).

How much more can it possibly cost a manufacturer to double box with dual 6" solid foam around the speaker, amp etc? Besides, anything costing more than $2K should be shipped in a crate IMO.

bikeman · « **Reply #16 on:** 25 Mar 2005, 01:20 am »

"Given that the state of shipping was/is/will remain the same (bad), shouldn't manufacturers alter their packaging accordingly?"

I had a lenghty discussion both through email and on the phone with Dave Fabrikant of Ascend Acoustics on this very topic after a speaker was damaged in shipment by UPS. I started out believing that Ascend didn't do enough to protect the speaker. I wound up with an education about current shipping methods, packaging materials and working with UPS as a small business (something I've had extensive experience with earlier in my life). I was gratified to see how much time, effort and money went into the packaging for the sole purpose of keeping the UPS gorrilla at bay. Believe me, a lot goes into addressing this problem.

"How much more can it possibly cost a manufacturer to double box with dual 6" solid foam around the speaker, amp etc?"

A LOT. Designing packaging is not cheap. Hiring people who will properly pack boxes is not cheap. The additional cost of shipping is not inconsequential. Lots is being done but the gorrilla still has the upper hand.

David

Bob A (SD) · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 Mar 2005, 02:00 am »

I've been in the logistics world for almost 40 years and have seen packaging with overkill levels of internal bracing in wooden crates delivered in splinters. My last personal experence was with an astronomical mount in a triple layer fully compartimentalized wooden crate delivered with holes from a forklift blade. So from my knothole its not as simple as saying that extra packaging will solve things.

As for the UPS vs FedEx vs USPS vs DHL vs whomever debate, damages occur with all the companies. These companies compete on volume and speed. The nonsense about injecting politics is just that. All also employ vast numbers of employees which means you'll have that minor percentage of no loads and screwups. All you really can do is pack things as carefully as possible and properly insure.

My objection is not the fact that the speed, volume, and x factor employees translate to less than 100% damage free deliveries. What torques me off is the callousness too many of the folks manning the claims departments evidence. There is abolutely no excuse for their insolence nor burdensome claims procedures. That should be the focus of our ire.

-Bob

Eduardo AAVM · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 Mar 2005, 02:08 am »

... the problem is they (UPS) also lie (and laugh I guess) at customers...

I was told by UPS Mexico's customs agent that the box was missed in USA but maybe in one or two following days it would be delivered, in exchange he would split the invoiced amount in two, to avoid paying twice the invoice amount, so there were no extra expense for me. Today I realise the box arrived to Mexico, just before the import scan it was lost.

That was on 21st March one week later still I do not receive my package and UPS collected the full amount for taxes so if the package is found I will have to pay twice the amount for taxes.

Tomorrow I will reach customers service manager and I will send a letter expressing that the action taken by the customs agent is strange considering that one package is lost and that he called me, customs agents normally don't call you.

Anyway it has been a dark week to me, I hate when this happens...

jpsartre · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 Mar 2005, 06:48 am »

Quote from: Bob A (SD)

What torques me off is the callousness too many of the folks manning the claims departments evidence. There is abolutely no excuse for their insolence nor burdensome claims procedures. That should be the focus of our ire

Nothing a good class lawsuit won't cure (if they got Philip Morris to pay for anti-smoking ads on TV, anything is possible). I guess we have to wait until UPS trashes the wrong (or right) lawyer's favorite shipment to kickstart it.