I AM SO FKN PISSED

corwin99 · « **Reply #20 on:** 30 Mar 2005, 01:30 am »

Its been a rough couple months for us Odyssey owners

which reminds me.. i gotta call Klaus!

Bob_Brines · « **Reply #21 on:** 30 Mar 2005, 02:53 am »

I am continually amused at these tirades about UPS and FedEx. I used to fight these battles, but now I have made a pact with the devil.

I am a (very) small speaker manufacturer. I tried for quite some time to build a crate that UPS and FedEx couldn't destroy, but nothing seemed to work. Then I sat down with the manager of my local UPS store and laid out the problem. He knew what the problem was and was sympathetic. From that talk, I discovered:

1. You are the visiting team in THEIR ballpark. THEY make the rules.
2. If you use any material other than cardboard for the outer box, they WILL destroy it because wood, particularly plywood is hard on the hands and drivers don't wear gloves. They will push your crate off of the tailgate rather that lift it. Consider the crate necessary to survive a 50" drop on one corner with a 90lb speaker inside.
3. They treat THEIR packages much better than they treat YOUR packages.
4. If you pack it, they will NEVER pay insurance claims. Damage is alway due to your inadequate packing.

So.... I deliver my speakers to the UPS store wrapped in 1" bead board. I do this to protect the speakers while in my pickup. The UPS guy then double boxes the speakers with peanuts and/or bubble wrap in between. The package now belongs to UPS. Problem solved. I had an UPS wrapped speaker damaged on a conveyor belt. The insurance claim was approved BEFORE UPS notified me.

Moral of the story: If you value your shipment, have UPS pack it. The cost to me is less than what I was paying for material/labor on boxes that UPS was destroying.. You can't beat them. You might as well join them.

Bob

MaxCast · « **Reply #22 on:** 30 Mar 2005, 01:14 pm »

Hi Bob, interesting story and welcome to AC.

I have watched the UPS counter person take a package off the scale and drop it from waist high right in front of the person shipping it. You should see the look on the customers face.

I've also seen things packaged in very flimsy cardboard with one piece of tape on the top and bottom....what are these people thinking

byteme · « **Reply #23 on:** 30 Mar 2005, 02:17 pm »

I had no trouble getting claims for the full amount when shipping 92lb. subwoofers via UPS using OEM packaging. They killed two of them and I've been reimbursed for both with very little trouble.

I find it hard to believe that the fact that UPS drops some packages or they fall off conveyers somehow signals the end of the free market economy due to the corporate purchase of the government...

Does it suck to have your stuff killed? Yes, I've had a pair of Lorelei's, two pair of Energy tower speakers, a preamp and two Velodyne subs killed - some mine, some stuff shipped for customers. But, like most things, if you don't do it yourself there is no way to ensure that it will be handled the way you want it to be handled.

klaus@odyssey · « **Reply #24 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 09:16 am »

Well, as for the preamp in question here, yep, they sure dropped the hell out of the box, but as a testiment to the Tempest, all that was wrong is one of the tiny remote control cables came off the motorized poti. !!! That's all, hehehe.

Now, the packaging:

I went through 6 different packaging methods over the years with Odyssey and with Symphonic Line. There are only 2 items that are crated right now, the ultra expensive turntable and the Belcanto speakers. Overall, SL has the same kind of success ???? in Europe with about 1-2 % dmaages, and to be honest, I kind of copied the overall packaging from them. Got the concept, and went to n industrial packaging company that has vast experience in UPS etc. shipping and their guidelines, etc.
So, the worst of all was actually the full bubble-wrapping, which should provide a lot of protection to the outside, which it does, but because of the very tight roping, it doesn't give you enough "give" for internal damages, depending on the product, of course.
Probably the best I've done was in the beginning of Odyssey, the chemical gun with 2 bonding chemicals that wrap around the product and give it some hard foam. That method is awesomely safe, BUT ::::: you can't give me enough $ to with that ^&%$%$&^%)&* chemical stuff again, and ultimately, was too expensive. Truth to be told, I wasn't the most versatile chem - gunner either.

Anyway, now with the corners and the masonite, etc., and the box in box with masonite for the speakers, I feel pretty safe.

One thing to consider though:

We shipped hundreds of international packages into over 45 countries so far, UPS, FedEx, consolidated air, etc., and only had 2 problems. Go figure how they overload the poor guys here in the US.

Late,

Klaus

klaus@odyssey · « **Reply #25 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 09:16 am »

Well, as for the preamp in question here, yep, they sure dropped the hell out of the box, but as a testiment to the Tempest, all that was wrong is one of the tiny remote control cables came off the motorized poti. !!! That's all, hehehe.

Now, the packaging:

I went through 6 different packaging methods over the years with Odyssey and with Symphonic Line. There are only 2 items that are crated right now, the ultra expensive turntable and the Belcanto speakers. Overall, SL has the same kind of success ???? in Europe with about 1-2 % dmaages, and to be honest, I kind of copied the overall packaging from them. Got the concept, and went to n industrial packaging company that has vast experience in UPS etc. shipping and their guidelines, etc.
So, the worst of all was actually the full bubble-wrapping, which should provide a lot of protection to the outside, which it does, but because of the very tight roping, it doesn't give you enough "give" for internal damages, depending on the product, of course.
Probably the best I've done was in the beginning of Odyssey, the chemical gun with 2 bonding chemicals that wrap around the product and give it some hard foam. That method is awesomely safe, BUT ::::: you can't give me enough $ to with that ^&%$%$&^%)&* chemical stuff again, and ultimately, was too expensive. Truth to be told, I wasn't the most versatile chem - gunner either.

Anyway, now with the corners and the masonite, etc., and the box in box with masonite for the speakers, I feel pretty safe.

One thing to consider though:

We shipped hundreds of international packages into over 45 countries so far, UPS, FedEx, consolidated air, etc., and only had 2 problems. Go figure how they overload the poor guys here in the US.

Late,

Klaus

klaus@odyssey · « **Reply #26 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 09:16 am »

Well, as for the preamp in question here, yep, they sure dropped the hell out of the box, but as a testiment to the Tempest, all that was wrong is one of the tiny remote control cables came off the motorized poti. !!! That's all, hehehe.

Now, the packaging:

I went through 6 different packaging methods over the years with Odyssey and with Symphonic Line. There are only 2 items that are crated right now, the ultra expensive turntable and the Belcanto speakers. Overall, SL has the same kind of success ???? in Europe with about 1-2 % dmaages, and to be honest, I kind of copied the overall packaging from them. Got the concept, and went to n industrial packaging company that has vast experience in UPS etc. shipping and their guidelines, etc.
So, the worst of all was actually the full bubble-wrapping, which should provide a lot of protection to the outside, which it does, but because of the very tight roping, it doesn't give you enough "give" for internal damages, depending on the product, of course.
Probably the best I've done was in the beginning of Odyssey, the chemical gun with 2 bonding chemicals that wrap around the product and give it some hard foam. That method is awesomely safe, BUT ::::: you can't give me enough $ to with that ^&%$%$&^%)&* chemical stuff again, and ultimately, was too expensive. Truth to be told, I wasn't the most versatile chem - gunner either.

Anyway, now with the corners and the masonite, etc., and the box in box with masonite for the speakers, I feel pretty safe.

One thing to consider though:

We shipped hundreds of international packages into over 45 countries so far, UPS, FedEx, consolidated air, etc., and only had 2 problems. Go figure how they overload the poor guys here in the US.

Late,

Klaus

klaus@odyssey · « **Reply #27 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 09:19 am »

Damn, 3 times ??? didn't know that I'm that fast with the keyboard.

rosconey · « **Reply #28 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 09:43 am »

remote worked when i gave it back to ups

they must have broke that

dont forget the hummmmmmmmmm and the phono section would drop out

skrivis · « **Reply #29 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 12:59 pm »

Quote from: Bob A (SD)

My objection is not the fact that the speed, volume, and x factor employees translate to less than 100% damage free deliveries. What torques me off is the callousness too many of the folks manning the claims departments evidence. There is abolutely no excuse for their insolence nor burdensome claims procedures. That should be the focus of our ire.

To some extent, this is built in. Making it tough on people to get claims processed means that a certain number of people will give up, so they don't have to pay out.

It's like rebates. Yes, it would be easier for everyone, and much more satisfactory for the customer if they simply reduced the purchase price. But companies have found that they can get most of the advertising/marketing benefit of a price reduction with a rebate, and far less than 100% of rebates are ever redeemed. And there's actually a negative incentive to make rebates easier to use.

It isn't even all somebody's evil plan. The company looks at results, and the manager and employees who make it tough to get a claim or rebate processed are more cost-effective since they pay out less. You don't even have to know that they're shafting the customer. They just produce better results.

Dunedain · « **Reply #30 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 07:15 pm »

8thnerve: Are you saying that if you insure a package for $5,100 or more that UPS is guaranteed to
only use hand trucks when moving the package through their warehouses, no banging around on their
conveyor belts? It would be very desirable to avoid those conveyor belts if at all possible...

By the way, how much does it cost to insure a package for $5,100 with UPS?

I can't believe they drop those packages *10 feet* on those conveyor belts, that's insane. Who
designed their conveyor belt system at the warehouses, a monkey? Why not use more conveyor
belts with very small drops in between each (like 1 foot drop max). They'd save a fortune
in claims and their customers would love it (and thus be happy to ship even more things with them).

nathanm · « **Reply #31 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 08:05 pm »

Quote from: Bob_Brines

...The UPS guy then double boxes the speakers with peanuts and/or bubble wrap in between. The package now belongs to UPS. Problem solved.

So how does a UPS worker know a UPS-packed package from a customer-packed package if there is indeed some kind of favoritism shown to UPS-packed stuff? Is there a special sticker on there that says, "No seriously, you can't throw this one, it's one of OURS and we'll actually have to PAY for it!"

Are there any concrete terms that UPS has which show that they will treat items THEY pack better than ones the customer packs? Because it seems nice, but I'd like to see it in writing.

I'd have to side with byteme in that "if you want anything done right do it yourself". The worst speaker damage I had was incurred by UPS-packing which to describe it as half-ass would be too complimentary. Only peanuts were used inside an oversized, thin-walled box. I don't dismiss what Bob said, just that the idea of leaving it up to them is a little scary. I'd like to know if there really is some kind of legal difference between the two methods.

goskers · « **Reply #32 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 08:12 pm »

I had a different experience from that of Nathan's when I sold my Orion's. The gentleman at UPS made a wooden crate for the speakers. It did cost around 275$ to ship from the midwest to Cali but it was well worth it when all arrived well.

This of course does not mean that I have had all good experiences with shipping.

eric the red · « **Reply #33 on:** 12 Apr 2005, 08:21 pm »

I bought a pair of GR Research Paradox 1s a few years back from a seller who had them professionally packed at his UPS Store. When they arrived and I opened the box, both the magnets on the woofers were completely torn off the speakers and the laminate on the smashed cabinets was coming apart because of how badly UPS had handled the box. No problem with the claim though

Eduardo AAVM · « **Reply #34 on:** 13 Apr 2005, 06:24 am »

My FKN story:

Package Progress:

Date/
Time Location Activity

Mar 18, 2005
7:34 A.M.

ARRIVAL SCAN
5:04 A.M. LOUISVILLE, KY, US DEPARTURE SCAN
Mar 17, 2005
11:53 A.M.
LOUISVILLE, KY, US
EXPORT SCAN
10:48 A.M. LOUISVILLE, KY, US ARRIVAL SCAN
7:29 A.M. INDIANAPOLIS, IN, US DEPARTURE SCAN
4:47 A.M. INDIANAPOLIS, IN, US ORIGIN SCAN
Mar 16, 2005
5:43 P.M.
INDIANAPOLIS, IN, US
PICKUP SCAN
3:19 P.M. US BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED

Tracking results provided by UPS: Apr 13, 2005 2:23 A.M. Eastern Time (USA)

Eduardo AAVM · « **Reply #35 on:** 21 Apr 2005, 02:30 pm »

Well guys after many days and practically no hope, yesterday they called me... The package was in Mexico (yes I knew / guessed that) apparently it is in good condition... 1 month later...

So... Am I a lucky guy or what ?

Package Progress:

Date/
Time Location Activity

Apr 20, 2005
3:09 P.M.
MEXICO CITY, MX
IMPORT SCAN

Mar 18, 2005
7:34 A.M.
ARRIVAL SCAN
5:04 A.M. LOUISVILLE, KY, US DEPARTURE SCAN

corwin99 · « **Reply #36 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 08:23 pm »

I finally got my Extreme Monos! And i'm very happy with them.. Klaus re-made them to basically new status for me!

With my name on the back of them and everything.. as much as it was hell seeing them damaged and waiting for fedex to do everything, It really was worth it in the end and I am very appreciative of Klaus' attention to all the little things sending these amps back to me basically as new amps (everything was replaced just about except the cases, according to him)

art · « **Reply #37 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 09:07 pm »

UPS and Fed Ex have both lost the same number of packages in the last 12 months. Sometimes from me.........sometimes to me. 'Nuf said.

Pat

John151 · « **Reply #38 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 10:21 pm »

I got my Stereo Stratos back from Indy last week (after the Extreme updgrade). The box was not in very good shape (had taken a few good hits along the way), and the masonite board was cracked. They also left it out in the rain! Before opening, I expected to find the amp dented and soaking wet. However, the amp was un-harmed and dry! I was happy to see that Klause shrink wrapped the amp inside the box! However, the box was a total loss, which will be a problem if I ever need to ship this amp again.

rosconey · « **Reply #39 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 10:37 pm »

klaus is a contortionist-be bends over backwards to satisfy his customers-
i know he has gone way above what i consider reasonable to rectify my situation-

if you ever read about a bad service issue with klaus its a lie-plain and simple-