[Asaadia]

Hello to every one in my quest for the perfect sound I bought what I tough was a very nice setup that will give me a beautiful and accurate sound,

speakers b&w 802 bi amped
amp for midrange and tweeter: pair of BAT VK-120 rated at 120 watts balanced Tubes
amp for woofer section: krell 400 watts
preamplifier Bat Vk-5i
source: Apple Mac ->wired 4 sound dacII

but to my dismay the sound is to present very noisy and not melodic it feels as I am listening to a very loud horn all tough very detailed it has no flow or musicality, Now after all that wasted money I only run the Bw802s mono amped with the krell and have taken the vk-120 out of the equation, sound is more melodic and full but still more on the noisy analytic side very tight bass but no musicality. I have a pair of bipolar definitive speakers attached to a simple Yamaha amp and they sound more satisfying obviously with a lack of detail...
please help me am I doing something wrong.

[JakeJ]

You need to isolate which components are the cause of the noise.  You say both amps present noise.  Does the Yamaha have preamp outputs?  Substitute the Yamaha pre for the BAT VK-5i and see if the noise is eliminated.  If so then it's likely just some bad tubes, or Victor can fix it.

Let us know.

[FullRangeMan]

Hello to every one in my quest for the perfect sound I bought what I tough was a very nice setup that will give me a beautiful and accurate sound,

speakers b&w 802 bi amped
amp for midrange and tweeter: pair of BAT VK-120 rated at 120 watts balanced Tubes
amp for woofer section: krell 400 watts
preamplifier Bat Vk-5i
source: Apple Mac ->wired 4 sound dacII

but to my dismay the sound is to present very noisy and not melodic it feels as I am listening to a very loud horn all tough very detailed it has no flow or musicality, Now after all that wasted money I only run the Bw802s mono amped with the krell and have taken the vk-120 out of the equation, sound is more melodic and full but still more on the noisy analytic side very tight bass but no musicality. I have a pair of bipolar definitive speakers attached to a simple Yamaha amp and they sound more satisfying obviously with a lack of detail...
please help me am I doing something wrong.

Hi Asaadia,
Welcome to the tube amp world.
Iam seeing myself in you right now...
At least you came to the right place now,
In the 1980/90s I had spend lots of cash in various Transistor powerful amps inclusive a Carver 600W monoblocks and they all had poor sound quality, this Carver amp had a small 250W power transformer and claimed delivery 600W/8Ω and even 900W/4Ω how I was stupid!

So after internet downed I found Dr.Gizmo that sadly already passed away.
RIP
https://www.meta-gizmo.org/index.html

https://www.meta-gizmo.org/tri/index-1.html

Basically what dear Harvey said was the same thing Steve Decker still says now and more, but after all these years I will tell you even more than Dr.Gizmo:
1) Use a tube amp,

2) Small amps have few parts, after 10W tube amps tend to have more parts count and complex circuit than the smaller ones.

3) Favor Triodes tubes and Single Ended amps with no NFB.

4) Single Ended amps(not PP) with zero NFB will have larger and deeper soundstage.

5) In case of tubes impossible use a Class D or SE Transistor amp with a nice tube preamp.

6) Dont walk, RUN from boxed speakers, tweeters and crossovers they will have a little detailed, small 2D soundstage what always lead me to ear fatigue and frustation.

7) Never use low sensitivity speakers, favor 98dB or more.

8] If need hi power handling and hi SPL use a pro-audio Full Range driver direct no xover in a proper big Bass Reflex box.

9) Big boxes will have more bass than small boxes.

10) Sole resistors, capacitors. inductors and noch filters also have the same deleteric effect on music than a completa xover, lossing the micro detail and harmonics from the recordings as heat and also will decrease the drivers sensitivity.

11) Power and output transformers have to be big.

12) Forget fashion expensive commercial tubes as 300B, favor cheap Military Russian tubes as 6C33, GM70, G807, G811 etc...

For my definitive system I could choose an Lii F15 or F18 in a simple barrel OB panel and a tube amp under 20W as 6C33 SET (12W conservative Japanese circuit) or a GM70 SET as Lampizator or an made to order at Radu Tarta with made to order transformers at Ogonowski.eu or Martin Mug-Holand.

Decware are selling the F15 OB right now for a lot of cash but drivers cost only $399/pair and F18 $520/pair at Lii Audio site, if you have a near carpenter you are done for this small amount.

Other related links:
https://www.decware.com/paper43.htm

https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZMS.html

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=174135.0

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=100689.0

http://www.glowinthedarkaudio.com/lii-audio-f15.html

http://www.glowinthedarkaudio.com/lii-audio-f18.html

http://www.ogonowski.eu/transformers/single-ended/

[Tyson]

Your tube amp almost certainly has a different gain level vs. your SS amp, that's going to cause problems.  If you're going to biamp you need a way to match the output levels of the 2 amps. 

Try running ONLY the tube amp to your speakers & see how that sounds.  Then try running ONLY your SS amp to your speakers and see how that sounds. 

Whichever one sounds better, use that amp.

[rollo]

Hello to every one in my quest for the perfect sound I bought what I tough was a very nice setup that will give me a beautiful and accurate sound,

speakers b&w 802 bi amped
amp for midrange and tweeter: pair of BAT VK-120 rated at 120 watts balanced Tubes
amp for woofer section: krell 400 watts
preamplifier Bat Vk-5i
source: Apple Mac ->wired 4 sound dacII

but to my dismay the sound is to present very noisy and not melodic it feels as I am listening to a very loud horn all tough very detailed it has no flow or musicality, Now after all that wasted money I only run the Bw802s mono amped with the krell and have taken the vk-120 out of the equation, sound is more melodic and full but still more on the noisy analytic side very tight bass but no musicality. I have a pair of bipolar definitive speakers attached to a simple Yamaha amp and they sound more satisfying obviously with a lack of detail...
please help me am I doing something wrong.

  Hey live and learn. If you want to keep the B&W speakers then that tweeter is analytical and detailed from the start. Finding the right Amp is the issue. Have you tried using warmer sounding tubes ? A good place to start. The B&W speakers are very revealing as you know. They WILL expose any nasties in the chain. Consider trying a different DAC and especially losing the Mac. Have fun trying.


charles

[Jon L]

  Hey live and learn. If you want to keep the B&W speakers then that tweeter is analytical and detailed from the start.

Doesn't say Which generation B&W 802 is being used.  Sure, they are all on the analytical side, but their more recent efforts have been quite improved...

[sebrof]

Your tube amp almost certainly has a different gain level vs. your SS amp, that's going to cause problems.  If you're going to biamp you need a way to match the output levels of the 2 amps. 

Try running ONLY the tube amp to your speakers & see how that sounds.  Then try running ONLY your SS amp to your speakers and see how that sounds. 

Whichever one sounds better, use that amp.

I agree.
If you are just hooking up the amps without any way to level match the chances of the two having the same output is pretty low. From what you describe I’d say the mids/tweeters are putting out more sound

[Escott1377]

I agree.
If you are just hooking up the amps without any way to level match the chances of the two having the same output is pretty low. From what you describe I’d say the mids/tweeters are putting out more sound

Agreed.  Your amps are probably not matched correctly for sensitivity.

You can use attenuators on the more sensitive of the 2.

If you search the Von Schweikert circle, Albert talks about the math to help you in the right direction.