[Chops]

If you are waiting a while for this  project, possibly  there will be a solution  to the   Neo10 situation.  If that is the case,  look no further than the Super 7's.  Having the  OB bass contained in the   cabinet is  a huge bonus in  smaller rooms. I ran the  NX-Otica's and either  dua or triple  OB subs  for  a number of years and my room was always crammed.     The Super 7's are a much better fit  in  my  18x12  space

With regards to the NX-Otica's  and NX-Treme's, you'd be surprised  at how much they   sound  alike assuming  equal crossover components/wiring etc. 
jay

That is certainly a viable option, though from what I remember, there is a rather considerable price increase with the Super 7's. Weren't they somewhere in the $7k to $8k region for the kits? If so, that's well more that double the cost of even the NX-Treme's.

In all honesty, if my upgraded X-Statik's are this great sounding, I would probably be more than happy moving up to the NX-Otica's.

And in regards to the NX-Otica vs Super 7, I found this post from Danny. It seems that the two of us have very similar tastes in sound, so that post makes me lean even more towards the NX series, price not being a factor...

"The Super-7's, NX-Otica and NX-Treme are all really good but different. Speed advantage in the mid-range goes to the Super-7 but not by a lot. It is a sharper and crisper mid-range than the NX-Otica or NX-Treme. The NX models have a little more body in the mid-range and more of an analog sound compared to the Super-7's.

And the NX models play lower and cross to the subs lower. Not a big deal on the surface as they both produce a flat response real easily. But drums and other instruments in the 100Hz to 200Hz range have a little more nature sound and a little more body, but also a lot of speed.

The waveguide in the NX models is bigger and it allows the tweeter to play a lot lower. So there is some advantage there. And while the off axis response (horizontally and vertically) are great with both, the NX models are a little smoother horizontally.

But for me a real advantage for the NX models is the smaller baffle size and improved imaging and sound stage layering. I am really into that transparent layered sound stage.

Like I said, all are really good, but just different. Personally though I am more in love with listening the NX models. Imaging and vocal ranges do it for me more in those."

[nickd]

 Having lived with both GR open baffle subs and now the sealed version. I think the sealed option should always be considered . The OB subs are amazing in the 80hz to 200hz ranges. Hard to beat really, but sealed servo subs are a force to be reckoned with 80hz and below.

Different applications and room limitations for both obviously. With the X static, I prefer a sealed sub, and I might lean that direction for any speaker with a strong response down to 80hz.

The Super 7 needs that OB sub output up in the 200hz range. As I’m guessing all speakers with Neo 10’s do. They just can’t play down to 80-100hz very well. Don’t think you would want them to either. Amazing mid range driver though.

[corndog71]

That is certainly a viable option, though from what I remember, there is a rather considerable price increase with the Super 7's. Weren't they somewhere in the $7k to $8k region for the kits? If so, that's well more that double the cost of even the NX-Treme's.

In all honesty, if my upgraded X-Statik's are this great sounding, I would probably be more than happy moving up to the NX-Otica's.

I spent around 5k for my Super7’s but then I painted them myself with Duratex. That saved some money.  And since they’re not really available right now your best bet is the Ottica’s.  Just the GR Neo3 tweeter alone is smoother and more detailed than the peerless tweeter on the Statiks.  Definitely a step up. 

[mlundy57]

That is certainly a viable option, though from what I remember, there is a rather considerable price increase with the Super 7's. Weren't they somewhere in the $7k to $8k region for the kits? If so, that's well more that double the cost of even the NX-Treme's.

In all honesty, if my upgraded X-Statik's are this great sounding, I would probably be more than happy moving up to the NX-Otica's.

And in regards to the NX-Otica vs Super 7, I found this post from Danny. It seems that the two of us have very similar tastes in sound, so that post makes me lean even more towards the NX series, price not being a factor...

"The Super-7's, NX-Otica and NX-Treme are all really good but different. Speed advantage in the mid-range goes to the Super-7 but not by a lot. It is a sharper and crisper mid-range than the NX-Otica or NX-Treme. The NX models have a little more body in the mid-range and more of an analog sound compared to the Super-7's.

And the NX models play lower and cross to the subs lower. Not a big deal on the surface as they both produce a flat response real easily. But drums and other instruments in the 100Hz to 200Hz range have a little more nature sound and a little more body, but also a lot of speed.

The waveguide in the NX models is bigger and it allows the tweeter to play a lot lower. So there is some advantage there. And while the off axis response (horizontally and vertically) are great with both, the NX models are a little smoother horizontally.

But for me a real advantage for the NX models is the smaller baffle size and improved imaging and sound stage layering. I am really into that transparent layered sound stage.

Like I said, all are really good, but just different. Personally though I am more in love with listening the NX models. Imaging and vocal ranges do it for me more in those."

You can get the NX-Otica sound in the Super 7 footprint by getting an NX-Otica MTM monitor and setting it on top of dual H-frame subs. That's what I have and it works in my 12' x 14' x x8' room. Granted it sounds better in a larger room but it does work in mine.

Mike

[Chops]

I spent around 5k for my Super7’s but then I painted them myself with Duratex. That saved some money.  And since they’re not really available right now your best bet is the Ottica’s.  Just the GR Neo3 tweeter alone is smoother and more detailed than the peerless tweeter on the Statiks.  Definitely a step up.

Yeah, I knew those Super 7 kits were up there a ways. Not a bad price at all considering all you get and the massive performance to price ratio. And that's saying something about those Neo3 tweeters since these Peerless tweeters are some of the best I've heard. They too are very smooth and detailed.

Has there been any direct comparisons posted anywhere between the X-Statik's (preferably with full crossover upgrades) and NX-Otica's?

[Chops]

You can get the NX-Otica sound in the Super 7 footprint by getting an NX-Otica MTM monitor and setting it on top of dual H-frame subs. That's what I have and it works in my 12' x 14' x x8' room. Granted it sounds better in a larger room but it does work in mine.

Mike

That's another great option. Though is there any drawbacks of running the Otica monitors with the subs? I only ask because at least with the NX-Otica/Treme, they have a group of bass drivers to bridge that gap between the MTM and subs.

Also, I don't see the Otica monitors listed on Danny's site.

[Chops]

Having lived with both GR open baffle subs and now the sealed version. I think the sealed option should always be considered . The OB subs are amazing in the 80hz to 200hz ranges. Hard to beat really, but sealed servo subs are a force to be reckoned with 80hz and below.

Different applications and room limitations for both obviously. With the X static, I prefer a sealed sub, and I might lean that direction for any speaker with a strong response down to 80hz.

The Super 7 needs that OB sub output up in the 200hz range. As I’m guessing all speakers with Neo 10’s do. They just can’t play down to 80-100hz very well. Don’t think you would want them to either. Amazing mid range driver though.

Interesting view on the two subs in question. I don't think that it's a matter of the OB subs not being substantial down to or below 20 Hz. It's just how they load the room vs how conventional sealed/ported subs load the room.

It's been a very long time since I've heard proper OB subs (which were the ones I build years ago). But a couple months ago, me, all three of my brothers and my girlfriend went to the 2020 Florida Audio Expo in Tampa, and there were a pair of MC Audio Tech Forty-10 loudspeakers in the last room that we visited. Running a pair of 18" pro drivers in each "W" baffle, these quickly reminded me of my old OB subs and why I love OB bass so darn much.

We listened to a pipe organ album that we're all very familiar with, and the way those "W" baffle 18's projected the pedal notes into the room was just like how the actual pedal stops themselves do within a church, as in they shutter or pulsate the air within the room. They don't pressurize the room with bass. They move the air, not compress it.

We even listened to some Phil Collins per my request... And no, not In The Air Tonight either.

These speakers were simply superb and by far the best at the show as far as I'm concerned. All three of my brothers and my girlfriend agree. They easily blew everything else there away, with the exception of the Mur Audio SP1's. These too were excellent and had wonderful bass, though they didn't extend down low like the Forty-10's nor were they OB (the bass drivers that is).

[Sonicjoy]

You can get the NX-Otica sound in the Super 7 footprint by getting an NX-Otica MTM monitor and setting it on top of dual H-frame subs. That's what I have and it works in my 12' x 14' x x8' room. Granted it sounds better in a larger room but it does work in mine.

Mike

Mike I would assume that the NX-Otica would have better/more dynamic mid-bass than the MTM version? (both with OB subs) That would seem to be the trade off. Maybe MTM is fine in smaller rooms?

[mlundy57]

Mike I would assume that the NX-Otica would have better/more dynamic mid-bass than the MTM version? (both with OB subs) That would seem to be the trade off. Maybe MTM is fine in smaller rooms?

Exactly, if your room is big enough for four separate cabinets, go with the full size NX-Oticas and separate triple or quad OB sub’s. If you don’t have enough room for that, go with the MTMs on top of dual sub’s.

[Sonicjoy]

Thanks Mike, makes perfect sense. I am still listening to the NX-Studio Monitors that I just built for my dad and that is the one area where I most miss my big Emerald Physics EP2.7's OB's. That big 12" mid/woofer has incredible dynamic punch and slam! I particularly love how drums sound on those. Very realistic impact and presence! The Studio's just can not match that kick you in the gut punch but I imagine that the larger Otica's bring that to the table. (I'm not talking about deep bass from subs) I am currently running them with a pair of Vandersteen 2wq subs.

[mlundy57]

That's another great option. Though is there any drawbacks of running the Otica monitors with the subs? I only ask because at least with the NX-Otica/Treme, they have a group of bass drivers to bridge that gap between the MTM and subs.

Also, I don't see the Otica monitors listed on Danny's site.

A lot of Danny's kits are not on the web site, though they are all discussed in this forum. Give Danny a call or drop him an email. This is particularly improtant now since a lot of suppliers are not able meet demand for parts.

I wouldn't call them drawbacks as much as tradeoffs. If both your room and budget will support the full size 'Oticas/'Termes and separate subwoofer towers, go with those. However, if either you room or budget aren't large enough for that, go with the MTMs on top of dual subs.

This is still a kick-ass option. Check out what Eric Shook from Part-Time Audiophile and Norman Tracy with Positive Feedback has to say about them: 

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2019/06/05/uilleam-audio-lone-star-audio-fest-2019/

https://positive-feedback.com/show-reports/lone-star-audio-fest-2019/   The NX-Otica MTM/dual subs are discussed on page 3

Mike

[Sonicjoy]

Very cool! Thanks for those links, I haven't seen those before.

[Chops]

A lot of Danny's kits are not on the web site, though they are all discussed in this forum. Give Danny a call or drop him an email. This is particularly improtant now since a lot of suppliers are not able meet demand for parts.

I wouldn't call them drawbacks as much as tradeoffs. If both your room and budget will support the full size 'Oticas/'Termes and separate subwoofer towers, go with those. However, if either you room or budget aren't large enough for that, go with the MTMs on top of dual subs.

This is still a kick-ass option. Check out what Eric Shook from Part-Time Audiophile and Norman Tracy with Positive Feedback has to say about them: 

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2019/06/05/uilleam-audio-lone-star-audio-fest-2019/

https://positive-feedback.com/show-reports/lone-star-audio-fest-2019/   The NX-Otica MTM/dual subs are discussed on page 3

Mike

Mike,

I think you have me sold on the NX-Otica MTM/dual sub combo. It would get me the awesome OB bass that I have been hankering for for years now, and get the excellent midrange and treble OB sound that I also am in love with, and all in a somewhat compact package.

I would like to know if others have heard side-by-side comparisons between this setup and the NX-Otica towers + subs, just for fun.

Also, as for the MTM section, does it have some sort of passive high pass filter integrated into the crossover to remove the bass from those mid-woofers, or do they play fullrange?

And lastly, I'm honestly not in the market at the moment for new loudspeakers, not to mention the crazy times we're all having right now with this virus funk running rampant the world over. I know it's taking a hit on suppliers and such and that parts and materials are running out for such projects, hence another reason I'm in no hurry.

With my recent career change at much better pay, and one less car payment, I'm focusing paying down other debts throughout this coming year before I go about doing more things to my hifi. Besides, this gives me time to actually enjoy my X-Statik's that I keep putting away for some strange reason, just to buy other speakers that don't compare.

Right now, I'm doing my research, getting my ducks all in a row (I really don't have any ducks, but I do have six cats ), and dreaming about my next GR Research loudspeakers... This time with TRUE OB subwoofers. I need that OB bass back in my life!

And speaking of cats... Here's one of my listening buddies hanging out with me, enjoying some good ole' J.S. Bach on the X-Statik's.

[Sonicjoy]

Chops,

Nice turntable! What cart and phono amp are you running? I have a mmf-7 that I have modded and upgraded with the full Mapleshade treatment. (Mapleshade makes a whole line of TT upgrades) Upgrades include the new CC9 carbon fiber tonearm. I'm running a Ortofon 2m black cart and a Tavish Design "Vintage" model tube phono amp. It's a great sounding combo. I like it so much that I picked up a stock mmf-7.3 with 2m bronze for my dads system.

I bet your system sounds great and that looks like a decent room. And yes OB bass is heavenly!  Those X-Statik's look like an incredible value.

[Peter J]

Although I haven't tried either, I suspect the ducks would be easier to align than the cats.

[Wind Chaser]

Only because of the cat, right?

We don't have a cat but we had to do the samething to protect three sofas and two cars on account of a dog.

BTW, nice looking speakers. If I had any capentry skills I'd be tempted to build them among other kits by Danny. Flat packs certainly help with assembly, but finishing is another skill I am sorely lacking. So jealous. 

[mlundy57]

Mike,

I think you have me sold on the NX-Otica MTM/dual sub combo. It would get me the awesome OB bass that I have been hankering for for years now, and get the excellent midrange and treble OB sound that I also am in love with, and all in a somewhat compact package.

I would like to know if others have heard side-by-side comparisons between this setup and the NX-Otica towers + subs, just for fun.

Also, as for the MTM section, does it have some sort of passive high pass filter integrated into the crossover to remove the bass from those mid-woofers, or do they play fullrange?

No, the MTMs do not have the high pass filter on the midrange drivers that the full size 'Oticas have. You can accomplish the same thing by putting an inline filter consisting of a single capacitor between the preamp and power amp. The size of the cap depends on the frequency you want the signal to be -3dB at and the input impedance of your power amp.

[Rocket_Ronny]

If I still had the OB5s I built, I would be replacing the tweeter with the open back Neo 3s, and whatever crossover parts would be needed. That would significantly upgrade the speakers, to electrostatic levels.

Rocket Ronny

[Captainhemo]

Mike,

I think you have me sold on the NX-Otica MTM/dual sub combo. It would get me the awesome OB bass that I have been hankering for for years now, and get the excellent midrange and treble OB sound that I also am in love with, and all in a somewhat compact package.

I would like to know if others have heard side-by-side comparisons between this setup and the NX-Otica towers + subs, just for fun.

Also, as for the MTM section, does it have some sort of passive high pass filter integrated into the crossover to remove the bass from those mid-woofers, or do they play fullrange?

And lastly, I'm honestly not in the market at the moment for new loudspeakers, not to mention the crazy times we're all having right now with this virus funk running rampant the world over. I know it's taking a hit on suppliers and such and that parts and materials are running out for such projects, hence another reason I'm in no hurry.

With my recent career change at much better pay, and one less car payment, I'm focusing paying down other debts throughout this coming year before I go about doing more things to my hifi. Besides, this gives me time to actually enjoy my X-Statik's that I keep putting away for some strange reason, just to buy other speakers that don't compare.

Right now, I'm doing my research, getting my ducks all in a row (I really don't have any ducks, but I do have six cats ), and dreaming about my next GR Research loudspeakers... This time with TRUE OB subwoofers. I need that OB bass back in my life!

And speaking of cats... Here's one of my listening buddies hanging out with me, enjoying some good ole' J.S. Bach on the X-Statik's.

Going back to your reply to me  earlier, remember, the price of the Super 7's also included the  subs/amps so you need to add that to cost of the NX-Otic/NX-Treme s for an equal comparison.
I too have made numerous posts  with regards to the  difference between  the  NX series themselves, as well as  vs the S7's.

No,  the  MTM's do not have a high pass  to the  NQ's built in, if you want to  roll  them off, you need to  build an inline  filterwith a small value cap , value dependent upon your  main amps  inputimpedence.

We are about the only ones who have ever done multiple  ( and when I say multiople I mean  for a few weeks) comparisons between the  NX-MTM's and NX-Oticas (both combined with dual h-frames).  The last  time I  reported on  this topic was  near  the end of this thread:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158550.0

I'll say it again, if you have the  room, go for the  full Otica's with either  duals, triple, or quads...   if not,  the  NX-MTm's   are a  very, very good  alternative.

We cold never  detect any trade off going from the  sub?MTm comvo to the  full  Otica / sub combo,  only improvements.   Yes,  in the   full  Otica,  the NQ's are high passed with a  large bundle of caps but, it is very transparent, not  noticable.   However,  the full Otica's   have the additional   woofers covering  from 200hz  and down and  that  does make  a  very noticable difference.

Worth mentioning,  we ID NOT  use  an inline cap   on the inputs of the main amp withthe MTM's,  doing so wouild definately  take  some of the   workload off  the  2  NQ's
jay

[corndog71]

The first thing I would recommend is selling those subs and then buying/building either a pair of Sealed Servo Subs or stepping up to a pair of dual OB subs. 

Either way you will get much better bass than regular subs.