[Marbles]

use ""

Without the "   "    use the whole url of wherever the picture is, but it has to be on the internet somewhere and not just on your own pc.

[John Casler]

I'll try to post and image here of the GUI (mods... if this is not allowed, please delete)...

This is good but I suspect that you may as well start another thread http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=54">here

You are of course correct...

My apologies... I need to hang here more...  

I also need to know how to post a jpg...  

I'm not always the sharpest tool in the shed at times...

All the best...

mls

Mark,

I threw one of the pages I had access to up for you on the AV123 Circle, along with the small screen shot.

Please feel free to edit or delete if it is not the right one.

PS. Get Well and feel better.

[mlschifter]

use ""

Without the "   "    use the whole url of wherever the picture is, but it has to be on the internet somewhere and not just on your own pc.

Thanks Marbles...

I understand this now...

All the best...

mls

[mlschifter]

Mark,

I threw one of the pages I had access to up for you on the AV123 Circle, along with the small screen shot.

Please feel free to edit or delete if it is not the right one.

PS. Get Well and feel better.

Thanks John...

Appreciate this...

mls

[Marbles]

After reading this thread

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=5708

more than a year ago, I almost bought the P1a.  Thank Christ I didn't......

How quickly the worm turns....(no not Dennis Rodman!!) I just bought a P1a and Prophecy I2s cable (to go with my P3a DAC)  in anticipation of Mark's kind offer to measure my speakers.

[DRL]

I'm looking at them and I don't even have the free offer!

[woodsyi]

Mark,

If there is overlapped frequency, i.e. 50Hz - 80Hz, will RDS factor in the contribution from the mains (uncontrolable through R-DES) in equalizing up to 4 frequencies?  Is there an analog input or does R-DES require a digital input?

[mlschifter]

Mark,

If there is overlapped frequency, i.e. 50Hz - 80Hz, will RDS factor in the contribution from the mains (uncontrolable through R-DES) in equalizing up to 4 frequencies?  Is there an analog input or does R-DES require a digital input?

VERY Good Question...

One could use multiple R-DES for this... possible...

Only two channel (analog) stereo in's and out's right now...

The DSP will allow us (at a later date / if we want to head that way) digital I/O's also...

Please visit our area here on The Audio Circle for these questions... I do not want to find myself in the gray area of "marketing" here...

Many thanks...

mls

[ctviggen]

I have my RM40s running full range and crossing over to stereo subs using a NHT X2 active crossover.  I was going to turn off the RM40s and run an analysis with ETF.  I would then apply the bass correction only to the subs and see what happens.  If this doesn't work, I might try taking a measurement with both the RM40s and the subs, then figure how much is added by the RM40s.  Using this, one could adjust the subs to reduce the hump where the RM40s and subs overlap.

[woodsyi]

Bob,

I figured on measuring with the main woofers on.  I would still think R-DES has to be able to account for an additive non-controlable bass baseline (from the main speakers or highschool drill team practicing out side my house) in its algorithm to come up with the correct end values for the selected frequency.

[DSK]

I've only just stumbled across this thread and just wanted to say that I believe there may be many 'Cabs' out there. Whether or not you believe that some of the comments arising from Cab's frustrations are fair, the underlying and long-festering frustration is understandable.

Like Cab, I purchased the PT gear (P-1A, P-3A, Monolithic PS) from PT about 4 or 5 years ago, and the decision to do so was based largely on the promised SOCS. Being in Australia, I figured it would take a little longer to reach me but never did I dream (nightmare?) that it still wouldn't be available in the US 4 or 5 years later, let alone in Australia.

Did I complain? No, I gave PT the benefit of the doubt and just waited, and waited and waited. PT (Walter from memory) assured me that it wasn't far away and that MMK kits would be distributed in Australia to cater for the Australian customers.

Did I understand that there would be a cost associated with the SOCS option? Yes. But the cost was incidental as it was something I wanted and formed an important part of my decision to purchase.

Mls suggests that Cab's earlier analogy was flawed so let me suggest another one. A customer considering the purchase of a new model BMW is told that the air conditioning option is not yet available for this model but will be available very shortly and can be paid for when ready and installed for a small fee. So the customer buys the car. However, he wouldn't have bought the car (especially in Australia) if he'd known that the air conditioning wouldn't be available for 5 years, if at all. The car may function in all other respects, but if a function that was fundamental to the customer's purchase decision ('option' or not) was not delivered in a reasonable timeframe then the product was misrepresented and the seller should make amends.  

Eventually, I gave up on SOCS, chalked it up as a poor purchasing decision, chastised myself for trusting the promises of a hifi company and resolved not to purchase from PT again. Eventually, I put my PT gear up for sale and finally managed to sell the P-3A and Monolithic PS at a significant loss. However, I can't even sell the P-1A for the equivalent of US$350! So, like Cab's P-1A, it sits in its box gathering dust in a cupboard.

As those of you involved in customer relations will know, complaints are positive in that they at least give you feedback on what is in the heads of your customers (rightly or wrongly) and give you the opportunity to turn the customer around. However, the vast majority of unsatisfied customers simply remain silent and resolve never to trust you or buy from you again. This is usually because they don't believe the seller will do anything. In the P-1A case, we kept waiting because we kept being assured that SOCS was close. But eventually, so much time had passed since the purchase of the P-1A that complaining no longer seemed like an option. Apparently Cab and I were both part of the silent majority until now and I believe that there are many others in the same situation.

I certainly have sympathy for the personal issues that the SOCS programmer has had to deal with. However, there comes a point in time where, for the credibility of the company, you bring in another programmer or make amends to your customers (eg. recall or partial refunds etc). Five years is simply ridiculous.

I have no interest in attacking or defending anyone involved in this sad tale, just sharing my own experience with fellow enthusiasts and providing Mark with a little more customer feedback FWIW.

[Craig Chase]

Some Hyperbole in your text, DSK. Since you decided to air this in open forum, your Air Conditioning analogy is, to use your words, ridiculous. Air conditioning is NOT new technology, OK?

I purchased a BMW 740iL in 2000 with a Navigation system which was supposed to be upgraded FREE later. It was new technology, and BMW was passing on information as it was given to them by the company who developed the software.

The upgrades never materialized ... but I do not lay the BLAME on BMW.

What would make you happy ? A little clarity is in order. You purchased a product which received several reviews stating its digital capabilities were at the top of its class. You did NOT get (nor did you ever pay for)  SOCS. What do YOU think, as the self appointed "silent majority", Perpetual Technologies should do to make "amends"?

[Rich Carlson]

Well, Craig, DSK's analogy may be a little over-the-top, but I've got to say that I feel pretty much the same way.  I haven't sold my PT setup yet (but if anyone wants to make an offer, let me know), but it is out of my system in favor of a real, available digital EQ/dithering system that has actually let me do some very effective corrections.  PT's service and responsiveness to queries has been great, but ...

[Craig Chase]

Rich ... Then answer the question ... WHAT would make people happy ? What do you guys want ?

Personally, I think we should all go after some REALLY big bucks. Afterall, Sony and Phillips promised "perfect sound forever" when the CD was introduced in 1983...  

[Phil]

Some of us were waiting to upgrade to the P5 (at least I think that is what it was called).  The expectation was a 75% trade in value.  

I don't see a solution to this problem.  Some of us invested and it didn't work out.  PT set the expectation high and kept the flame going.  What happened?  That at least I'd like to know.

Sure, there are many companies that have had similar situations and no one gets pissed.  But the audio world is much smaller and, one hopes, the companies can make a profit and provide excellent information and service.  After all, you pay for these "benefits" in the form of higher-than-massed-produced prices.    

I am really sorry to hear the P1 isn't worth much used.  I'm about to sell mine and would have liked to recover more of the cost.  It still functions as something other than a vehicle for SOCS, but I'm not sure potential buyers will realize that.

The frustration, however it is expressed, is legitimate.  I don't see the purpose in trashing those who are venting a bit.  It doesn't mean that those who are looking to PT for other technology can't feel justified in their own hopes.   It doesn't mean PT didn't have the best intentions.

[Rocket]

Hi,

Some Hyperbole in your text, DSK. Since you decided to air this in open forum, your Air Conditioning analogy is, to use your words, ridiculous. Air conditioning is NOT new technology, OK?

I thought that DSK's analogy was fine, was written in a mature manner and did not personally attack anyone.

I am feeling less inclined to make comments on audiocircle anymore because when you do you have to read negative comments like these.

I was the lucky person who bought DSK's p3a and monolithic power supply.  I can tell you he lost a Significant amount of money on the deal.

Regards

Rod

[Craig Chase]

Phil ... Asking what will make you happy is now trashing ?

I will try again ... WHAT will make you happy ?

[Craig Chase]

Hi,

Some Hyperbole in your text, DSK. Since you decided to air this in open forum, your Air Conditioning analogy is, to use your words, ridiculous. Air conditioning is NOT new technology, OK?

I thought that DSK's analogy was fine, was written in a mature manner and did not personally attack anyone.

I am feeling less inclined to make comments on audiocircle anymore because when you do you have to read negative comments like these.

I was the lucky person who bought DSK's p3a and  ...

Got it Rod ... DSK is entitled to use the word ridiculous, but noone else is.

[Craig Chase]

Gents ... As the owner of several businesses, I personally have to deal with complaints on a daily basis.

I see nothing wrong with guys voicing a problem. DO I believe all the purchasers getting the P-1A were doing so SOLEY based on the future SOCS and ROCS software ? Nope. Do I think it was PART of the decision ? Yep.

Have people gotten year's worth of use of the product ? Yep.

Through experience, I have seen what is going on in this thread ALL too often. A complaint is made, with no solutions given.

There is ALWAYS a solution to a problem under this condition :

BOTH parties want a solution. So ... What would be a fair solution ?

[DSK]

Some Hyperbole in your text, DSK. Since you decided to air this in open forum, your Air Conditioning analogy is, to use your words, ridiculous. Air conditioning is NOT new technology, OK?

Craig, if you read my post a little more slowly you will see that I never mentioned anything about air con being "new technology", simply that the air con unit for that model was not yet available but would be shortly. My point was simply that there was a product being purchased and that purchase was made due to the customer relying on the promise of an optional extra. The facts that it is an "option" and not yet paid for are irrelevant. The customer would not have bought the product if the seller had not advised repeatedly that the option was imminent.

I purchased a BMW 740iL in 2000 with a Navigation system which was supposed to be upgraded FREE later. It was new technology, and BMW was passing on information as it was given to them by the company who developed the software.

The upgrades never materialized ... but I do not lay the BLAME on BMW.

The basics of this analogy are less accurate than mine. SOCS was not being provided by a third party. As such there was a greater onus on PT to do the right thing by their customers, in my view.

What would make you happy ? A little clarity is in order. You purchased a product which received several reviews stating its digital capabilities were at the top of its class. You did NOT get (nor did you ever pay for) SOCS. ..

Again, if you read my post a little more slowly, you will realise that I never disputed the other aspects of the PT's performance. And again, you have missed the point that the lack of upfront payment for SOCS was largely irrelevant too. The fundamental point is that some customers would not have purchased the P1A without the promise of SOCS... this was an important feature to them and they were more than ready to pay the cost for it. They were/are not after something for free here, they bought the P1A primarily as a platform for SOCS. The additional cost of SOCS is not an issue.

What do YOU think, as the self appointed "silent majority", Perpetual Technologies should do to make "amends"?..

Personally, I am not after anything at all. I have worn the losses and moved on. I am disappointed that PT let things go on for so many years without stepping in to do the right thing by their customers. Would I buy from PT again? Tough question. I harbour no malice toward PT and am not on an emotional trip here whereby I curse and swear and blacklist them. However, I guess it is fair to say that I certainly wouldn't rely on any information from them in future on products or important options that are not 100% complete and sitting on the shop shelf.

I am a little bemused as to why you, as the self appointed PT advocate, would be so hasty in hitting the Reply button to defend PT, that you didn't take a moment to consider and understand what I really said. I am not attacking PT or Mark here in any way. This is a forum where members with a common interest share experiences, that is all I was doing. I am not saying "Do not buy from PT" or "I demand a refund". At most, I am suggesting that members learn from this experience and think twice about purchasing something (from ANY company) based upon something that isn't yet available ...even if it is supposedly very close to release and has been demonstrated in pre-release form.

If Mark is monitoring this thread I am sure he is rational enough to understand the content and premise of my post and that there is no malice involved.

I have shared my experience and have no interest in entering into any sort of argument on the topic. Readers can ignore or consider my post as they see fit.