[JLM]

Hmmmm.... if you already had Tidal, and you already had favorites on Tidal, they would automatically show in your Roon once you linked your Tidal to your Roon account. I have no idea what “had to do it with Tidal on my Mac” means, and I am very confused regarding what you did.

Also, you can add Tidal albums and tracks directly from Roon, via your Roon controller, be it a tablet, smartphone, or computer. Browse or search on Tidal, then “add to library “. Easy. It’s a two way communication: Favorites on Tidal are part of your Roon library, then what you add to your Roon library via Roon, becomes favorite on Tidal.

As far as importing your own music library, such as CD rips, high resolution purchases, here is what “point Roon to hard drive or NAS” means:

https://kb.roonlabs.com/FAQ:_How_do_I_import_music%3F

Once you had “pointed” Roon to that folder, a one-time process that takes minutes, or several folders, everything you have, and will have (including new rips/ purchases) will be imported into Roon

Had to access Tidal from my MacBook to select new Tidal favorites after initial Roon install (those new favorites would automatically add to the Tidal albums on Roon).

Thanks for the tip on importing music.  I have a 'patience limit' for searching/browsing the net for answers.  Most postings don't relate or are over my head.

[JoshK]

Although DSJ has an ethernet port a friend tells me it, "doesn’t have UPnP (universal plug and play) and a built in controller. So it requires additional equipment to read, organize, and play external hard disk content".  Never tried feeding DSJ via my network as I already have cables connected to it and considered that a better SQ option than wireless from my MacBook or iMac.  Note that feeding ethernet to DSJ requires using HomePage technology (which I have thanks to my trial of the SGC) or paying an electrician to route ethernet to my room.

I think this is a misunderstanding.  I'll address what your friend said last.   If you get a server, won't you need to run ethernet to it?  Will it be in the vicinity of your DAC? 

Feeding ethernet to your DSJ will likely be a better option than your other cables because of how it is implemented and it does away with needing other boxes and cables and things.  The Bridge II is a very capable box within a box, sort of speak.  The Bridge is a renderer (endpoint) that will take whatever data is being streamed over the Ethernet to it and turns it into I2S digital within the DAC.   So you don't need another Endpoint, USB/I2S, blah blah blah in your mix, you have it builtin already. 

Right now you have the macbook storing your music and connected to DAC via some cables.  The macbook is basically your 'server' if you will.  It houses the HDDs with your music, it also have the controls you use for playback.   If you were to go with some other server and connect it to your network and you did plug your DAC into the network via Ethernet, you can still use the macbook to control playback of your music over the network, but it won't be coming from the macbook even though you are using it to control the playback.  In this case, the server would house your HDDs with your music (you transfer from mac to server) and the server uses programs behind the scenes that makes everything work together.   This is the UPnP your friend mentioned and your DAC does work with UPnP because that is exactly how I am doing it.  But the DAC doesn't control the server does.  The controller would actually be installed on your macbook (or get a tablet if you prefer, doesn't matter). 

If you wanted to do the above like I spelled out, it would be a few simple steps and you don't need to know a lot of lingo, just follow the steps.  Same as if you wanted to get Roon, you have to install and follow the steps.  Most audiophile servers probably already have a server and UPnP controller installed, if you were to get a NAS for example you need to install them, but it is only a couple clicks because they are normal recommended plugins anyway (like installing an app on your phone).   

[ricmon]

Guys I check out the ZEN and it is a very nice solution.  But it provides the same functionality as Daphile.  Soooo I recommend just buying a white box PC and install Daphile.  It's easy to do and lets you store,rip and organize you CD/downloads file collection, access Tidal, Spotify and all the internet radio you can configure and lots more.  I tried many of the Linux distros for steaming but settled on Daphile.......

https://www.daphile.com/

Ric

[JLM]

I think this is a misunderstanding.  I'll address what your friend said last.   If you get a server, won't you need to run ethernet to it?  Will it be in the vicinity of your DAC? 

Feeding ethernet to your DSJ will likely be a better option than your other cables because of how it is implemented and it does away with needing other boxes and cables and things.  The Bridge II is a very capable box within a box, sort of speak.  The Bridge is a renderer (endpoint) that will take whatever data is being streamed over the Ethernet to it and turns it into I2S digital within the DAC.   So you don't need another Endpoint, USB/I2S, blah blah blah in your mix, you have it builtin already. 

Right now you have the macbook storing your music and connected to DAC via some cables.  The macbook is basically your 'server' if you will.  It houses the HDDs with your music, it also have the controls you use for playback.   If you were to go with some other server and connect it to your network and you did plug your DAC into the network via Ethernet, you can still use the macbook to control playback of your music over the network, but it won't be coming from the macbook even though you are using it to control the playback.  In this case, the server would house your HDDs with your music (you transfer from mac to server) and the server uses programs behind the scenes that makes everything work together.   This is the UPnP your friend mentioned and your DAC does work with UPnP because that is exactly how I am doing it.  But the DAC doesn't control the server does.  The controller would actually be installed on your macbook (or get a tablet if you prefer, doesn't matter). 

If you wanted to do the above like I spelled out, it would be a few simple steps and you don't need to know a lot of lingo, just follow the steps.  Same as if you wanted to get Roon, you have to install and follow the steps.  Most audiophile servers probably already have a server and UPnP controller installed, if you were to get a NAS for example you need to install them, but it is only a couple clicks because they are normal recommended plugins anyway (like installing an app on your phone).

OK, I'll give running my DSJ via ethernet a try (Wednesday as I'm busy today), but it'll be wireless from the MacBook, then use HomePage to get it from the router to the DSJ.  And will try to compare to my 10ft USB cable (last time I tried hooking up both SGC and MacBook DSJ 'didn't cooperate' very well').

[JLM]

Guys I check out the ZEN and it is a very nice solution.  But it provides the same functionality as Daphile.  Soooo I recommend just buying a white box PC and install Daphile.  It's easy to do and lets you store,rip and organize you CD/downloads file collection, access Tidal, Spotify and all the internet radio you can configure and lots more.  I tried many of the Linux distros for steaming but settled on Daphile.......

https://www.daphile.com/

Ric

Sorry Ric, I visited the site and a couple of related review sites, but can't figure out what it is or what advantages it provides (too much vague 'computer speak').  Appears to be software that would duplicate my iTunes (and maybe my Tidal).  Is so, what's the advantage?  Does it handle Roon?  Seems to be too hair shirt for this very simple computer user.

Did find yesterday a company called Euphony that sells an internal drive with preinstalled Operating System and software (your library would be moved to that drive) which supposedly provides better sound (they now also sell a server with SSD that reportedly is killer).  Can serve as a Roon core and player, is optimized to only output USB.

[brj]

OK, I'll give running my DSJ via ethernet a try (Wednesday as I'm busy today), but it'll be wireless from the MacBook, then use HomePage to get it from the router to the DSJ.  And will try to compare to my 10ft USB cable (last time I tried hooking up both SGC and MacBook DSJ 'didn't cooperate' very well').

Not sure that I understand your 'HomePage' and 'SGC' references, but as long as the DSJr is plugged into your router and your MacBook is connected via WiFi to the same network, the Roon install on your MacBook will see the DSJr.  Just select the DSJr from within Roon, and you can start streaming via Roon.  No other software or setup required (unless you want to mess with the Roon DSP or similar).

Note that Roon has its own communications protocols, which is why you don't need to worry about UPnP and the separate controller that your friend mentioned.  Roon handles it all for you.

[JohnR]

Actually if you run Roon UI and Roon Server on separate machines it's basically the same (architecturally) as the separate UPnP controller and server. Similarly, the simple install of Roon that you've just outlined where Roon UI and Server are on the same machine is the same as running a player that effectively combines UI and "server" functionality like, say Audirvana Plus...

[JLM]

Not sure that I understand your 'HomePage' and 'SGC' references, but as long as the DSJr is plugged into your router and your MacBook is connected via WiFi to the same network, the Roon install on your MacBook will see the DSJr.  Just select the DSJr from within Roon, and you can start streaming via Roon.  No other software or setup required (unless you want to mess with the Roon DSP or similar).

Note that Roon has its own communications protocols, which is why you don't need to worry about UPnP and the separate controller that your friend mentioned.  Roon handles it all for you.

Tried using HomePage: a pair of devices that connect to router on one end and DSJ is on the other end that piggybacks on house wiring, which worked for Small Greenn Computer (SGC).  But no, it doesn't work.  The only output devices that show up on my MacBook are "Internal Speakers" and "PS Audio USB Audio 2.0 Output".  Note that using just iTunes, Roon no longer available.

[brj]

I have no idea what iTunes might see, but a Roon 'core' running on your MacBook will see the DS Jr as a Roon 'endpoint' if both are on the same network because it is a certified Roon endpoint.  (You might have to select it as a 'zone' the first time you start Roon on the Mac.)  This is exactly what I do with my Mac and a uRendu.

I've never looked at other network based audio connections to the DS series, so while others may exist, someone else would have to comment.

[Maceo23]

Take a look at the Linn DSM's.  The price on the Majik has just been slashed.  You get a network player, dac, MM/MC phono stage, that can be used as a pre, a source, and  an integrated.  It has the latest space optimization which is a game changer.   You might be able to get into the akurate on the used market for a good price as well.  Upgradable to Katalyst architecture in the future.  I've been using a first gen majik for years and its been excellent.  I just upgraded to the new Selekt DS, its absolutely amazing and I haven't done the space optimization or the Katalyst yet.  Full room setup takes place on Saturday.

[skunark]

Linn’s Kazoo app is one of the best apps out there integrating Tidal, Qobuz and files from UPnP server.  Even allows for app based playlists so you can mix local files with a streaming service. 

Best of all the API is open source so there simular solutions with Linux running “upmpdcli”  ifnyou dont mind a little DIY.   I do see a Linn Majik in my near future if i can understand the costs of one with HDMI ports.

[Maceo23]

At Majik level, it is a full function integrated.  Selekt is modular, I opted for no amplification.  Akurate and Klimax are preamp only.  Also, you can finally use Roon with Linn.

[jtwrace]

I came back to this thread to attempt to help but I'm so confused at what the issue(s) are honestly. 

[JLM]

Update/refresh:

Have been at this past time for nearly 50 years, but a certified computer dummy.  Bought JBL 708P active reference studio monitors and PS Audio DirectStream Junior (DSJ) DAC, preamp, streamer earlier this year.  (So don't need an integrated source/DAC/preamp/power amp, just a server.)  Wanted a better source and everyone says to replace my MacBook Air (MBA) and 10ft USB cable.

Tried an i5 Small Green Computer (SGC) with Roon connected via ethernet to my DSJ but it sounded no better than my MBA and no one has come up with a way to provide room/speaker DSP measurement/user adjustment ('full' DSP) via a dedicated music server.  Roon forum indicated that Room EQ Wizard (a 'full' freeware DSP could be added to Roon as a filter, but sounded very confusing and didn't like being dependent on others to setup, use, and maintain the SGC/Roon.  So I sent the SGC back.

Just wanted better SQ with 'full' DSP without needing a learning curve bigger than what a microwave oven takes.  Some have suggested various brands of servers and a couple of guys have suggested just using Roon on the MBA via my network.  Evidently music servers are still too new to have matured into the user friendly device that I'm looking for. 

[brj]

JLM, you might be asking the wrong questions... Let's try this: what are you trying to accomplish with DSP?

DSP can be very powerful, but there is a definite learning curve to climb if you want to use it correctly.  What you seem to be referring to as DSP is really the combination of 1) making acoustic measurements of your room, 2) generating a correction filter based on those measurements, and 3) the applying the filter to your music in real time.  Tools like Room EQ Wizard, Fuzz Measure, and Dirac can handle the first 2 of those elements, while playback software like Roon and many others handle the 3rd.

There are systems out there like Audyssey, as is included with many AV receivers, which guide you through a series of acoustic measurements and then automatically generates a filter and applies it, but those systems have a hard time improving the sound throughout your listening room (though some will perform averaging across measurement positions as a compromise), and it may end up not doing what you want.

You already have speakers that are not only controlled directivity, which thus tend to produce fewer negative room interactions than many speakers, but in fact have built-in DSP processing.  If you've already measured your room and just want to knock down a couple of peaks in the frequency response, you can do that with the 708P directly, or in Roon via its parametric EQ function if you want a friendlier interface.  And if you liked Roon, then you need no server at all.  Just run it on your Mac and point it to toward your DS Jr.

In short, DSP is not a magic panacea.  It's best used to fix specific, targeted issues after you've selected appropriate speakers for your room and then installed acoustic room treatments appropriate to how your speaker's frequency dependent radiation pattern and power response interact with that room.  And as stated, the 708P speakers are great speakers that will react with a room less than most, so you've got a great head-start.

[roscoe65]

I know I am late to the party, but JLM has always been a great contributor and I think we are overcomplicating things.

JLM:  You have a PS Audio Directstream Jr.  This is a combination streamer, DAC and preamp.  You have most of your solution already there.  You only have to supply the core computer (server) for your audio application.

You need to think about your player software.  If you are only using Tidal (no CDs or files) you don't even need a server, since your DAC is on your network and it uPNP (Universal Plug 'n Play) you can select it as an audio output from your phone or from a computer or tablet.  But it sounds like you want more flexibility.  Roon offers the ability to integrate most of your media into one interface.  It is very popular for a reason:"  it works, it is easy to use, and it sounds great.

There are a couple of options I could recommend for your server:

1.  Mac Mini.  This will require you to optimize the machine.  Eric Heider of DB Audiolabs recommends this choice for a core/player for his DAC.  You'll need to turn off a lot of processes to optimize for sound.

2.  Roon Rock:  This is an Intel NUC (about the same price as a Mac Mini) running the Roon Rock OS/server software (free with a Roon subscription and automatically maintained and updated by Roon over the Internet).  You have to put it together and load the OS, but if you really are challenged you could get a guy from Geek Squad to do it for a $100 or so.

Roon has become so popular that just about everything is compatible (especially now that is outputs to Chromecast).  My choice would be a Roon Rock and then set it and forget it.  I would plug the both the Rock and your DAC into your ethernet network at home and simply enjoy your music.  You can use Roon Remote from a computer, phone or tablet.

R

[ricmon]

Sorry Ric, I visited the site and a couple of related review sites, but can't figure out what it is or what advantages it provides (too much vague 'computer speak').  Appears to be software that would duplicate my iTunes (and maybe my Tidal).  Is so, what's the advantage?  Does it handle Roon?  Seems to be too hair shirt for this very simple computer user.

Did find yesterday a company called Euphony that sells an internal drive with preinstalled Operating System and software (your library would be moved to that drive) which supposedly provides better sound (they now also sell a server with SSD that reportedly is killer).  Can serve as a Roon core and player, is optimized to only output USB.

I get that.  It's not very well spelled out on the website.  I guess it's because it's a one man effort.  But it leverages Squeezebox https://mysqueezebox.com/index/Home to add Tidal and Spotify......etc.  But once I got it all installed and started using it is when I really began to like it.  I wish it had a better web interface of maybe an mobile app but you can access you Tidal favorites, make playlist and what ever else Squeezebox will let you configure.  But what I like about it most is it's technical capabilities, DOP, access to HDMI output, CPU throttling, PCM to DSD conversion of all music files.....

RIc

[artur9]

Maybe a Bryston BDP that you can use via iTunes and AirPlay.

I really like my BDP-1 but I do not use it with iTunes despite it supporting it.  I could give it a try and let you know.

[jtwrace]

Update/refresh:

Have been at this past time for nearly 50 years, but a certified computer dummy.  Bought JBL 708P active reference studio monitors and PS Audio DirectStream Junior (DSJ) DAC, preamp, streamer earlier this year.  (So don't need an integrated source/DAC/preamp/power amp, just a server.)  Wanted a better source and everyone says to replace my MacBook Air (MBA) and 10ft USB cable.

Tried an i5 Small Green Computer (SGC) with Roon connected via ethernet to my DSJ but it sounded no better than my MBA and no one has come up with a way to provide room/speaker DSP measurement/user adjustment ('full' DSP) via a dedicated music server.  Roon forum indicated that Room EQ Wizard (a 'full' freeware DSP could be added to Roon as a filter, but sounded very confusing and didn't like being dependent on others to setup, use, and maintain the SGC/Roon.  So I sent the SGC back.

Just wanted better SQ with 'full' DSP without needing a learning curve bigger than what a microwave oven takes.  Some have suggested various brands of servers and a couple of guys have suggested just using Roon on the MBA via my network.  Evidently music servers are still too new to have matured into the user friendly device that I'm looking for.

I have to mention that IMO, most of the server stuff is fluff.  The SGC and Roon Nucleus will likely sound identical to any other computer running the core; unless you're running HQP that really does take computing power.  You can build a NUC (fanless) or just buy a Nucleus and be done with it. 


As for the DSP, I'd really recommend you take a look at Audiolense.  The advantage there is that it's SO powerful and easy to use if you can use REW.  Take the measurements and load the convolution filter that you create using Audiolense then load it into Roon and it's all processed within Roon. 


Read about Roon and Convolution Filters here.


 

[zuluwarrior0760]

I went from longtime Bryston BDP2 to Aurender N10.

I have fallen into the camp that just absolutely could care
LESS about Roon.

The Aurender is simply the most refined and complete
player I've found and I've tried many over the past few years.
Sonically it's above reproach, but it's greatest feature is an ipad
app that actually works, works all the time without bugs and reboots
and updates that simply apply seamlessly.

Sound quality on ethernet Tidal streaming is particularly musical
and the N10 also has FPGA on the fly conversion of DSD to PCM