New class D modules. Listening impressions here.

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maty

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New class D modules. Listening impressions here.
« on: 3 May 2018, 05:46 pm »
I think that an independent thread is necessary to verify if the sound of the new class D modules corresponds with the excellence in their measurements.

Specifying the preamplifier and the speakers used, at least.


For me is very important to get excited when listening to certain excellent recordings, usually coming from old analog masters, probably made with tube technology.

Emotion vs spectacular (clean, with great soundstage) sound, that is the question.

Is emotion + spectacular sound possible? How?

OzarkTom

Re: New class D modules. Listening impressions here.
« Reply #1 on: 3 May 2018, 05:51 pm »
Yep, I have it here with my DAC Cherry monos and the 36v PSU driving a pair of 8" Alnico speakers.

Pre is the IFI  Pro Ican, Music server is the Sony Hap-Z1ES.

maty

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Re: New class D modules. Listening impressions here.
« Reply #2 on: 3 May 2018, 05:54 pm »
Quote
Specifying the preamplifier and the speakers used.

maty

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Re: New class D modules. Listening impressions here.
« Reply #3 on: 14 May 2018, 10:53 am »
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/281361-hypex-ncore-nc500-build-post5432995.html

By normanu

Quote
My Electrocompaniet AW3x120M sounded better then the 1200AS2 I have.

But.... I do like the sound of the AS and with the benefit of the auto sensing turn on and off and the much much much lower power requirement.

I do think I made a good choice in switching.

Actually now that I have this auto turn and off I think I never want to go without anymore

Never heard the NC500, very curious what the difference would be.

https://www.electrocompaniet.com/products/classic/poweramp/Discontinued/3x120-M.html

OzarkTom

Re: New class D modules. Listening impressions here.
« Reply #4 on: 14 May 2018, 12:09 pm »
I use to sell Electrocompaniet back in the 80's. They always sounded great, but seriously lacked the oomph that Class D can give, especially in the bass.

maty

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Re: New class D modules. Listening impressions here.
« Reply #5 on: 14 May 2018, 01:50 pm »
The problem with old class D was/is the HF aka tweeter. That is why expensive studio monitors (nearfield and midfield) -until now- use class D with the woofer and class AB with the tweeter.

The question is if the new class D have overcome this problem/limitation. If you listen to very good recordings without or little processing in the recording studio. Voices without autotune, by example.

maty

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Re: New class D modules. Listening impressions here.
« Reply #6 on: 14 May 2018, 02:48 pm »
mocenigo

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/281361-hypex-ncore-nc500-build-post5432950.html

Quote
In the meantime I am very satisfied with my Apollon NC500 based monoblocks. They took ages to burn in - like all Class D things - but after about 400 hours of active amplification (i.e. I also attached 8.4Ohm/50W resistors to the binding posts and let it run during the night at very high volume for several nights), the sound has become eerily natural and transparent. The stage is wide, tall, and deep, with good placement of sound sources with a clear size and some air between them. Great layering. Bass control is excellent. The piano is extremely good, and I guess it is not perfect only because my loudspeakers are not made by Wolf von Langa (absolutely the best piano and cello reproduction I have ever heard).

The amps themselves are absolutely silent with the Sonic Imagery 994 opamps and the only noise you can hear with the Sparkos SS3602 is if you nearly glue your ears to the tweeters and have a da*n good hearing in a very silent environment. The sound is absolutely realistic, rich of detail. Transients are precise, and they are in exactly the same place as the instrument generating them (listen to a clarinet and the sound of its keys...) ...

https://www.apollonaudio.com/hypex-nc500-monoblock-amplifier-apollon-audio-nc800-slm/

maty

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Re: New class D modules. Listening impressions here.
« Reply #7 on: 16 May 2018, 02:25 pm »
http://www.audioshark.org/amplifiers-8/new-b-o-ice-power-1200as2-module-nord-600w-into-8ohms-1200w-into-4ohms-13427-page10.html

by Greg F

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Something I found very interesting about a week ago. Another audiophile came over with his DIY 1200as2 in a Takachi case. He brought it over so we could compare it to Michael's SE. We didn't realize until we got together that the Takachi amp was balanced and Michael's SE was single ended. So an apples to apples comparison wasn't possible. My Lampi has both outputs but we elected to use the balanced output for our listening session with both amps. What came as a surprise is the Takachi amp sounded better than the SE amp even though the SE amp has upgraded connectors and wire and the case is a lot thicker. The conclusion we came up with is that the 1200as2 amp works a lot better using its balanced connection rather than its single ended connection.

At first we thought it was because the guy who came over with the Takachi balanced amp brought a $5000.00 silver XLR interconnect. So, we swapped that for a Mogami XLR interconnect which was the same wire that's in my single ended cables. The Takachi cased amp still sounded a lot better than the single ended amp. We have no idea if the case, wire and connectors make a difference or not. What we do know is if they do make a difference it isn't enough to make up for using the balanced input on the amp.

Well, for me it is no surprise, it is logical despite what the people write about balanced versus unbalanced. No doubt.

The $750 kit that I was about to buy was carrying Neutrik XLR.

And of course, I would never think of using the expensive Furutech or other audiophiles. The Neutrik XLR are the best connectors. And the Neutrik SpeakON too (speakers output).

And the power/interconnection/speaker cables, with star quad geometry.

Or the Schurter IEC connectors, Schaffner RF/EMI filters or Neutrik jack 6.3mm... but I am not an audiophile man. And case with 1 mm steel sheet or > 4 mm aluminum walls, no doubt.

bavmike

Re: New class D modules. Listening impressions here.
« Reply #8 on: 16 May 2018, 02:33 pm »
Sounds like conclusive evidence that the thinner case and cheaper wire sounds better! Wow!

maty

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Re: New class D modules. Listening impressions here.
« Reply #9 on: 16 May 2018, 02:42 pm »
If you have "tons" of RF/EMI in the atmosphere the case is very important. I have verified in my house -> no doubt. I do not need an expensive aluminum case. And the class D technology is much more sensitivity with RF/EMI than class A or class AB.

One of my bottleneckes is/was the RF/EMI. Once detected, I try to solve it by spending as little as possible. If later others appear that the previous one concealed I try to do the same. DC, RF/EMI, noise in the audio band.... Professional solutions. If there is no other alternative: trial and error.

maty

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Re: New class D modules. Listening impressions here.
« Reply #10 on: 18 May 2018, 09:45 am »
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« Last Edit: 20 May 2018, 04:32 pm by maty »

maty

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Re: New class D modules. Listening impressions here.
« Reply #11 on: 20 May 2018, 08:59 am »
Burning with 8.4 Ohms / 50 watts resistors:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/281361-hypex-ncore-nc500-build-post5438711.html


Burn-o-matic

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kAGqaHpPu3OiyvTL2



Btw, I can see a black RF? ferrite in the power cable. And Neutrik XLR connector if I am not wrong.

dekiller

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Re: New class D modules. Listening impressions here.
« Reply #12 on: 20 May 2018, 08:19 pm »
Any opinions on Pascal modules?

maty

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Re: New class D modules. Listening impressions here.
« Reply #13 on: 30 May 2018, 08:55 pm »

JCarney

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Re: New class D modules. Listening impressions here.
« Reply #14 on: 30 May 2018, 09:09 pm »
Any opinions on Pascal modules?

I have a pascal made up by Lee at MG Audio Design. We did comparisons against the Hypex modules, and everybody preferred the Pascal's over the Hypex. The Hypex has a mid range warmth the Pascal does not, but seemed to be a bit rolled off on top. The Pascal however was much better in the controlling the low frequencies and has much better upper frequency extension. Overall the Pascal's sounded better, with the best control of the drivers I have experienced. I sold my Odyssey Stratos glass ceiling mono blocks because the Pascal's were so much better. (Sorry Klaus) At least 3 of the Hypex modules had to be sent back for replacements due to issues with the modules. The Pascal's on the other hand had no replacements needed. Lee did mod the input board, and change out key opamps on the board. Even without the mods, the Pascal was still better, and the modded one made it no contest. The Hypex do sound good and I like them, just the Pascal's are superior IMHO.

JCarney
« Last Edit: 31 May 2018, 12:24 am by JCarney »

Randy

Re: New class D modules. Listening impressions here.
« Reply #15 on: 30 May 2018, 10:31 pm »
I have a pascal made up by Lee at MG Audio Design. We did comparisons against the Hypex modules, and everybody preferred the Pascal's over the Hypex. The Hypex has a mid range warmth the Pascal does not, but seemed to be a bit rolled off on top. The Pascal however was much better in the controlling the low frequencies and has much better upper frequency extension. Overall the Pascal's sounded better, with the best control of the drivers I have experienced. I sold my Odyssey Stratos glass ceiling mono blocks because the Pascal's were so much better. (Sorry Klaus) At least 3 of the Hypex modules had to be sent back for replacements due to issues with the modules. The Pascal's on the other hand had no replacements needed. Lee did mod the input board, and change out key opamps on the board. Even without the mods, the Hypex was still better, and the modded one made it no contest. The Hypex do sound good and I like them, just the Pascal's are superior IMHO.

JCarney

I have an amp with Pascal modules built by Aluminati who used to have a presence here. Beautiful solid aluminum case with topnotch terminals and switches.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=127863.0