Amplifiers with IcePower 1200AS2, class D module

mresseguie · « **Reply #120 on:** 20 Apr 2018, 01:24 am »

Quote from: audio.bill on 20 Apr 2018, 01:13 am

Regarding Stereophile's rating of the PS Audio Stellar M700 amps, in the April 2018 issue Recommended Components on page 76 they are indeed currently rated in their Class A (Solid State) category.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I notice there is at least one other Class D amp in that "A" category. I'll email the editor to ask about it. [Edit: No need to email the editor. I found the explanation:
"Class A
Best attainable sound for a component of its kind, almost without practical considerations; "the least musical compromise." A Class A system is one for which you don't have to make a leap of faith to believe that you're hearing the real thing. With Super Audio CD, DVD-Audio, and Hi-Rez PCM and DSD files now available, we have created a new Class, A+, for the best performance in those digital categories. Class A now represents the best that can be obtained from the conventional 16/44.1 CD medium. We also created Class A+ categories for turntables and phono preamps.
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/recommended-components-2018-edition-how-use-listings#ZO63O2XfzC436uXU.99

What was not made clear was that this is a special rating system of Stereophile's. I was unaware of this system, so when Tom said the Class D amp was Class A, I, of course, took it to mean it was a Class A amp.

All this confusion could have been avoided with a link like the one above.

Michael

mresseguie · « **Reply #121 on:** 20 Apr 2018, 01:28 am »

Quote from: mr_bill on 20 Apr 2018, 01:14 am

He’s correct:

Class A

PS Audio Stellar M700 monoblock: $2998/pair $$$
The Stellar M700 incorporates the latest version of PS Audio's Gain Cell—described as "a proprietary, fully differential, zero feedback, discrete, class-A MOSFET circuit"—using it to drive a class-D power module from the Danish ICEpower company. The Stellar M700 has both balanced (XLR) and single-ended (RCA) inputs, weighs a mere 13 lbs, and is specified as providing 350W into 8 ohms. RD used a pair of M700s to drive his Monitor Audio Platinum PL300 II loudspeakers, and described the amp as having "very little sound of its own, and nothing that I could describe as a distinct class-D character." The PS amps impressed RD with their distinctly smooth sound—"tubelike wouldn't be entirely inappropriate as a description"—and noted that they were able to drive the Monitor speakers "to volume levels as high as I could tolerate without amplifier or speakers ever sounding distressed." In measuring the Stellar M700, JA noted that it slightly exceeded its rated power output, and concluded that it "offers respectable measured performance." (Vol.41 No.2 WWW)
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/recommended-components-2018-edition-power-amps#HpoG3wOepUJ6fyy3.99

I also understood he meant 5 companies making the amps and not actually making the module. We all know that is only B & O.

Certainly, many of us regulars know this yet many other folks who read these threads do not.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #122 on:** 20 Apr 2018, 01:47 am »

All five companies are using the exact same Icepower 1200as module, no difference. Mivera, Nord, Rouge, Apollon, and Bellissimo. Sorta like General motor cars. Buick, Pontiac, GMC, Olsmobile, Chevy. etc. It is nice to have a choice.

mresseguie · « **Reply #123 on:** 20 Apr 2018, 01:50 am »

^^^^^^

gregfisk · « **Reply #124 on:** 20 Apr 2018, 03:13 am »

I'm not familiar with the 700ASC amp, is it considered better than the 1200as? Or does it just have a different power rating?

fredgarvin · « **Reply #125 on:** 20 Apr 2018, 03:31 am »

Quote from: gregfisk on 20 Apr 2018, 03:13 am

I'm not familiar with the 700ASC amp, is it considered better than the 1200as? Or does it just have a different power rating?

The 700ASC is an older version module. Before the new ICE EDGE 1200as. The ICE EDGE has been well received as superior to the older ASC modules.

fredgarvin · « **Reply #126 on:** 20 Apr 2018, 03:40 am »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 20 Apr 2018, 01:47 am

All five companies are using the exact same Icepower 1200as module, no difference. Mivera, Nord, Rouge, Apollon, and Bellissimo. Sorta like General motor cars. Buick, Pontiac, GMC, Olsmobile, Chevy. etc. It is nice to have a choice.

Oldsmobile?

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #127 on:** 20 Apr 2018, 05:27 am »

Quote from: fredgarvin on 20 Apr 2018, 03:31 am

The 700ASC is an older version module. Before the new ICE EDGE 1200as. The ICE EDGE has been well received as superior to the older ASC modules.

As I recall the 700ASC was initially well received but not by everyone... While some embraced it, others were very critical right from the get go and they were right. It didn't stand the test of time.

So with the new 1200as - will it stand the test of time - or will the novelty wear off? Time will tell.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #128 on:** 20 Apr 2018, 05:28 am »

Quote from: fredgarvin on 20 Apr 2018, 03:40 am

Oldsmobile?

You're missing the point.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #129 on:** 20 Apr 2018, 11:38 am »

Rouge Audio out of Roma, Italy also has a Five Star Website. In fact maybe more. This is their web store, they list over 20 different amps, all custom made to order, and they will do upgrades based off your needs. Icepower, Class T, Headphone amps, Pascal, And Ncore is availabe. Rouge also has instant messaging and answers fairly quickly if asked during their business hours.

https://www.rougeaudiodesign.com/buy-now

The company has the exact same 1200as module amp as everyone else, but wait. a new PRM-1200 coming soon? Is Rouge leading the pact?

ALAUDA
PRM-1200
DESCRIPTION

Class D stereo power amplifier based on the ICEpower 1200AS2 module using the new ICEedge technology. Integrated SMPS power supply with PFC (power factor correction) combined with two independent class D amplifier modules. The ICEpower board is implemented with our ASRX interface that optimizes the audio performances as well as allowing the user to control the Signal Sense function (through which the amplifier, put in standby mode, is activated only in the presence of the audio signal). Amplifier of high power and quality. Balanced and unbalanced inputs selectable by switch. Clipping indicators for each channel. 12V Trigger. New aluminum 19" black chassis, Furutech IEC-FI-03 socket and WBT, Copper colour or Argento Audio binding posts.

CHASSIS: black anodized aluminium 19" (rack mounting)
DIMENSIONS: 482.6x320x88mm
SIGNAL SENSE
INPUT: 2 balanced + 2 unbalanced
TRIGGER: 12V (jack 3.5)
OUTPUT: 4 hi-grade binding posts (WBT, Argento AUdio, Copper Colour RCS)
IEC INLET: Furutech FI-03 (G)
EMI FILTER: KT110D-10A

ACCESSORIES: standard power cable IEC/SHUKO

Output power one channel driven: 1200W (4Ω), 600W (8Ω)
Output power two channel driven: 2x700W (4Ω), 2x600W (8Ω)
Distorsion THD + N (1W/1kHz) = 0.005 %
Minimum load impedance = 2.7 Ω
Dynamic range = 129db
SNR = 135db
Frequency Response 3hz-50Khz
Voltage Gain 25,8db
Input Impedance 38Kohm
Output idle noise (A) = 25mV
Maximum output current 38A
Universal Line Input Voltage: 95-250Vac

Tentative price is $1200. Custom upgrades will be more.
Shipping to Missouri might be $68. This one looks very interesting

Their current 1200 amp is $1021 and $68 to ship to Missouri. Custom duties is unknown. On $1021, it should not be a lot. Lead time is 12 days, stated on their website.

You can look for a long time on their website.

Here is the latest info on US duty rates.

Quote

Up to $1,600 in goods will be duty-free under your personal exemption if the merchandise is from an IP. Up to $800 in goods will be duty-free if it is from a CBI or Andean country. Any additional amount, up to $1,000, in goods will be dutiable at a flat rate

mresseguie · « **Reply #130 on:** 20 Apr 2018, 03:19 pm »

Hi, Tom.

Great Class D amps find.

They've got an impressive selection of amps for sale.

Michael

fredgarvin · « **Reply #131 on:** 20 Apr 2018, 03:38 pm »

Quote from: Wind Chaser on 20 Apr 2018, 05:28 am

You're missing the point.

You missed the joke. Neener neener.

fredgarvin · « **Reply #132 on:** 20 Apr 2018, 03:49 pm »

Quote from: Wind Chaser on 20 Apr 2018, 05:27 am

As I recall the 700ASC was initially well received but not by everyone... While some embraced it, others were very critical right from the get go and they were right. It didn't stand the test of time.

So with the new 1200as - will it stand the test of time - or will the novelty wear off? Time will tell.

I wonder if PSAudio will introduce a new model implementing the 1200as?

drumnman2 · « **Reply #133 on:** 20 Apr 2018, 06:18 pm »

Since they have a "class A" rating in Stereophile I doubt they are too worried. It's more than just the module as everyone knows. There will always be something different coming out touted as the latest greatest in everything we do. For $2100 with a trade-in and no risk seems like a pretty cool deal for a pr. of mono amps and a great company that will be around. Think it will be my next move up the ladder.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #134 on:** 21 Apr 2018, 09:35 pm »

Bad news for PSA fans, M700's now $3K, $1200 trade-in is now max. S300 is $200 higher.

People are requesting 1200as on their forum.

https://www.psaudio.com/products/stellar-m700-power-amplifier/#tab-description

JackD · « **Reply #135 on:** 21 Apr 2018, 10:28 pm »

Don't know what forum you are reading at PS Audio but I am a member and there has been no mention of a Stellar amp in days and nothing about the 1200AS other than a comment by me months ago. Seems to be just more of the same.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #136 on:** 22 Apr 2018, 02:20 am »

Quote from: JackD on 21 Apr 2018, 10:28 pm

Don't know what forum you are reading at PS Audio but I am a member and there has been no mention of a Stellar amp in days and nothing about the 1200AS other than a comment by me months ago. Seems to be just more of the same.

Are you on the Darren Myers thread of March 10? I think that was last month.

https://forum.psaudio.com/t/my-dream-paul-mcgowan-darren-myers/5345

JackD · « **Reply #137 on:** 22 Apr 2018, 02:51 am »

No, but I'm in there with Darren, Ronin, Michael and others. Started out as an exchange between Michael and I as he was looking for more power for big Infinity IRS's. Hard to tell sometimes as he is using Google Translator to post.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #138 on:** 22 Apr 2018, 03:13 am »

Quote from: JackD on 22 Apr 2018, 02:51 am

No, but I'm in there with Darren, Ronin, Michael and others. Started out as an exchange between Michael and I as he was looking for more power for big Infinity IRS's. Hard to tell sometimes as he is using Google Translator to post.

I was just reporting what I saw on the PS forum. t seemed to me talk about the 1200as modules. I imagine Paul reads all posts. If PS is not aware of these 1200as modules, they must be blind since they are an Icepower dealer. A 1200as amp with gain cell technology would probably be a runaway best seller for them.

JackD · « **Reply #139 on:** 22 Apr 2018, 03:53 am »

As the M700's are barely a year old and selling well I doubt he will do anything with the 1200AS until he sees a real demand. I doubt you could just swap the modules out as the hole pattern is probably not the same and the buffer may need modification as the two modules are from different production series. His main concerns now are the new Bridge and Server in addition to finishing the speaker project he and Arnie started. Also there is a new phono preamp in development. The only thing amongst those that interests me is the new Bridge and software.

As Michael's in Denmark and works with a speaker company I referred him to Colin by pm if he wanted to try one. Thing is he want's monoblocks to put beside the IRS's and none of the lower cost offerings are monos.