CSS Full Range DIY initial report

Coolzone · « **Reply #40 on:** 27 Jan 2005, 12:25 pm »

Thanks for the info Bob

Coolzone · « **Reply #41 on:** 27 Jan 2005, 02:45 pm »

hello anybody knows ho makes the T140 ribbon in the CSS SuperSpires ?

any got some specs on it ?

mcgsxr · « **Reply #42 on:** 27 Jan 2005, 03:10 pm »

I hunted and hunted for that - I think I may have found one similar, but never the exact one.

For me, the WR alone makes such great music, that I will leave it alone.

Coolzone · « **Reply #43 on:** 27 Jan 2005, 07:26 pm »

hey Mark

how many WR's do you use pr channel in sealed or vented box ??

mcgsxr · « **Reply #44 on:** 27 Jan 2005, 08:12 pm »

I am using just one WR125S per side, in a simple 0.3 foot box, tuned to 55Hz, with a 1.5x4 inch port - just go back to the first page of this thread, and read my comments, and see the pics of the boxes.

I know that many people will want to augment the full ranger with a tweeter, but to me, it sounds great as is - simple, straight from amp to driver, no Xover anywhere in the signal path, for any frequencies - this is the compromise that I want to make - others will be willing to make different compromises to cover a larger portion of the audible frequencies.

I do not perceive the treble as lacking, on 90% of what I listen to.

As for sealed or ported, that is up to you - if you want to play LOUD, then sealed might be safer, since the natural roll off of the driver will help protect it from overextending the travel of the driver. I do not play that loud, and wanted exactly what I saw, in the pdf files on CSS's website.

I have had several people over to hear these, and have yet to have anyone say ' blech, where is the treble? Perhaps they are just being polite, but I doubt it, they are my friends...

dnewma04 · « **Reply #45 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 09:18 pm »

A co-worker of mine has been looking into a B&W HTM1 center channel to pair up with his Nautilus 804s. I have been talking with him and he is interested in a center channel using the WR125S, a tweeter and appropriate midbass driver.

I originally was thinking of trying to duplicate the shape of the HTM1 and using the Hi-Vi TN28 to give it that B&W tweeter pod look.

Here is the caveat, he is not 100% confident that he wants in, in which case, it will become my center channel. If it were just him, I would recommend waiting for the LCR with extremis, wr125s and Usher. But, if there is a chance that it will become mine, more budget minded mids and tweets will be required.

This leads me to the thought of using the Tangband W6-1139S up to around 250 hz where the WR125S.

Any thoughts on this:

1 cu ft enclosure tuned to 40 hz with 2 W6-1139S. Sealed midrange enclosure for the WR215S with the TN28. I have been warned to take hi-vi specs with a grain of salt, (so any feedback on this tweeter would be appreciated). I am going with second order crossovers at this point with crossover points at approx 250 and 7500 hz.

Just using the response graphs I have found online, the overall crossover looks fairly simple. I have not played around with any baffle step, but by the looks of it, I may not need it.

mocked up crossover and predicted response:

I understand some measurements and tweaking will be in order after the prototype enclosure

Any feedback would be appreciated, I want to do this right the first time because of the competition it is going up against.

Thanks!

Kevin P · « **Reply #46 on:** 1 Feb 2005, 04:10 pm »

The only meaningful measurements you can use for design are those taken with the drivers mounted on the enclosure they are to be used in. You need the phase, FR & impedance measurements done in the enclosure to be used.

My design process for a given speaker is as follows:

1. Know budget & goals first.

2. Look at exhisting designs that fit my budget & goals to see what others have used.

3. Choose drivers and build prototype enclosure.

4. Measure drivers in prototype enclosure. I do a far field measurement from the approximate listening distance for FR & impedance. Save plots for LSPCAD.

5. Make adjustments if necessary.

6. Do design work for crossover in LSPCAD. With LSPCAD Pro you can listen to the crossovers in real time via their digital crossover tool. In this way we can voice the design without building multiple crossovers.

7. Build the design & listen to compare with model. Make changes based upon comparison with the model. We also remeasure the finished version and check off-axis FR & check box tuning & other design goals to see how close our model is to measured performance. Make adjustments as necessary.

This is a simplified process but it gives you some idea of how we walk through a given design process for a speaker. I cannot give you much advice on the specifics of your design without having data that is consistant with how we measure & design.

DanWiggins · « **Reply #47 on:** 21 Feb 2005, 11:32 pm »

OK, so I got bored (yes, that's a shock to many that I actually have occasion to get bored!) and looked around. Hmm, a couple half-sheets of 1/2" thick particleboard over there, a box with 16 WR125Ss over there, some of these fun little 4 ounce stuffing pillows, and a radial arm saw...

30 minutes later I was finishing up these:

Maximized the dipole cabinet I could get from a half-sheet of wood. Sixteen inch depth, 8 inch width, 48 inches tall. A pair of ~8 inch deep braces. All built with staples - no glue.

Wired the drivers as two series pairs, then paralleled the pairs. Four little pillows behind the drivers, a 4 element network, and whaddayaknow - working dipoles!

All told, construction for a pair was just over an hour, including hunting for the right drill bit for the circle guide. They measure out as +/- 3 dB from ~70 Hz to ~14 kHz, with an impedance of 8 Ohms (peak of ~12 Ohms, minimum of 7.5 Ohms, +/- 0.5 Ohms from 120 Hz to 20 kHz). Sound pretty good, too.

Yes, it is a lot of drivers (8 total), but it works, and they can actually play fairly loud in this configuration.

Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio

Kevin P · « **Reply #48 on:** 22 Feb 2005, 11:55 pm »

Come on Dan.... how do they sound?

You need to work on the finish a little too. Why don't you call up Mike & ask for some of that puke green paint.

Pete Schumacher · « **Reply #49 on:** 1 Mar 2005, 02:37 am »

Hi guys . . . I'm new here.

I've been using some excellent tools for modelling TL's from Martin King. At the suggestion of one fan of this driver, I plugged the WR125 into his worksheets and came up with a TL/aperiodic box that more than meets the requirements and provides a full 10dB gain over the sealed response at 40Hz. What this enclosure should do is provide real 40Hz output, not bone crushing, but real 40Hz for most listening requirements.

A 40" long "line" with the driver mounted 8" from the closed end, a straight taper of 71 sq in at the closed end to 4.4 sq in vent at the open end. This is roughly 1 cubic foot, more than enough enclosure volume to produce a playable 40Hz at better than 90dB.

The infinite baffle output of the WR is 83dB linear at 40Hz with 7W input. The TL adds over 10dB of output at 40Hz for a total of 93dB minimum. Another benefit of the damped line is that excursion is kept to the 70hz limit allowing 12W input before reaching xmax, and that limit extends to just below 40Hz, allowing at least 95dB at 40Hz to be produced.

The damping of the line to achieve the gentle sloping curve, no peaking, from 100Hz to 40Hz as well as upper band ripple to less than 2dB:

The first 8" from the closed end: 0.75 or more lb/cuft
The next 8" after the driver: 0.5 lb/cuft.
The next 16" after that: 0.1 lb/cuft.
The last 8": no stuffing.

With this T-line/aperiodic box, you'll have a smooth response from 40Hz on up with less than 2dB overall ripple, and it'll fit nicely in a 20" tall box, with a single fold.

This modeling software from Martin King is reportedly quite accurate. Since I don't yet have the testing facilities, I'd love to see what Kevin Haskins could measure with the box parameters above.

Kevin . . . any chance you could build this simple TL and check out the response????

Kevin P · « **Reply #50 on:** 2 Mar 2005, 06:10 am »

Pete,

I'm in the process of moving to a new warehouse still so I'm not going to have time to build anything but work benches and pallet racks.

I think your the second one to come up with a TL tuned to give that kind of deep response. I've not built one but we have had someone build something similiar. Subjectively it didn't have as much bass as the simple ported box.

I have yet to play with Martin's model but I seriously doubt your going to get true 40Hz response at any reasonable output (matching the upper frequency response). You will get true 65-70Hz in room response in the ported box but it takes a quite a bit more driver (in terms of Vd) than the WR-125 to get that low.

Don't get me wrong.... these little guys have a great low end response. There isn't another 4" driver on the planet that can even come close but it just isn't the right tool for getting down into the last octave.