The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread

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jtwrace

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #40 on: 1 Sep 2017, 01:17 pm »
The race to see who gets it first! 

Chris Adams

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #41 on: 2 Sep 2017, 09:45 pm »
I probably should have taken pictures but the new DAC is up and running! :thumb: I have it connected to an old Toshiba DVD player to burn it in. I listened for two minutes and I swear the difference between the 2.0 and the 1.0 is not subtle. :o Can't wait for it to run for a while and then do some serious listening.

radarnyc

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #42 on: 3 Sep 2017, 03:40 pm »
I went to the LIO when it first came out and, in that purchase, reduced all my cables to a single USB cable. Currently, I'm not using any "special" USB cable. I'm wondering, given the design of DAC 2.0, would there be any benefit of a USB cable that separates the power from the data; like Curious, FYS and others?

mirekti

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #43 on: 4 Sep 2017, 09:20 am »

No, a regular USB cable is recommended, and nothing in between the source and DAC.

matthewpartrick

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #44 on: 4 Sep 2017, 12:47 pm »
I probably should have taken pictures but the new DAC is up and running! :thumb: I have it connected to an old Toshiba DVD player to burn it in. I listened for two minutes and I swear the difference between the 2.0 and the 1.0 is not subtle. :o Can't wait for it to run for a while and then do some serious listening.

We definitely need pix! :)

borelek

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #45 on: 4 Sep 2017, 01:14 pm »
We definitely need pix! :)

If it's not industrial secret !

my own DAC 2.0 is between Zurich and here ... 

Ric Schultz

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #46 on: 4 Sep 2017, 07:21 pm »
All cables, everywhere, make a difference.  Of course, you would want the best sounding usb cable you can afford (they all sound different).

Vinnie R.

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #47 on: 5 Sep 2017, 03:13 pm »
All,

LIO DAC 2.0's began shipping last week, and more will hopefully be shipping later this week!

Quote
I probably should have taken pictures but the new DAC is up and running! :thumb:

Hi Chris,

I'll try to take a few pics this week and will post here.

Quote
I have it connected to an old Toshiba DVD player to burn it in. I listened for two minutes and I swear the difference between the 2.0 and the 1.0 is not subtle. :o Can't wait for it to run for a while and then do some serious listening.

8)

Quote
Currently, I'm not using any "special" USB cable. I'm wondering, given the design of DAC 2.0, would there be any benefit of a USB cable that separates the power from the data; like Curious, FYS and others?

Hi radarnyc,

Good question!

While the LIO DAC 2.0 does not use the USB +5V bus to power the DAC 2.0 circuitry, it does use it as a "trigger" to confirm there is a connection to the USB source (and there is a red LED on the bottom-level PCB of the LIO DAC 2.0 next to the USB jack that glows when connected to the USB source).

The DAC 2.0 has its own on-board circuitry that galvanically isolates, buffers, and reclocks the data.  The best connection should be a direct connection using a"USB 2.0 compliant" cable from the USB source (computer, or microRendu/Sotm) to the LIO DAC 2.0.

USB cables that are not in compliance with the USB 2.0 standards should probably be avoided, as I cannot guarantee that the LIO DAC 2.0 will work correctly and not malfunction with such non-USB 2.0 compliant cables. 

Best regards,

Vinnie

CCJ

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #48 on: 5 Sep 2017, 06:46 pm »
I installed my DAc2.0 over the weekend as well as upgraded my microRendu to an Ultra. I spent sometime a number of configurations to see the increment impact of the two additions. The 2.0 DAC really makes a difference. WOW! could tell the moment it first played... heard things never heard before quite astonishing   :o

It does run hot... guess that is what a heat sink is for ;-) and has the new electronics smell.

I am breaking it in it in by playing non upsampled music from Tidal via Roon. However, I have upsampled up to DSD 512 for short bursts (couldn't resist) and it is jaw dropping. I had to turn down the SDM to -4db to keep it stable. It might be some of the configuration or processing bottle neck issue....oh so much to tweak and learn

I did notice that it seemed to require less volume than the DAC 1.0. I was wondering if that is due to the Class A-Jfet output

Vinnie R.

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #49 on: 5 Sep 2017, 08:21 pm »
Hi CCJ,

Welcome to the VR forum, and thank you for your post!

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The 2.0 DAC really makes a difference. WOW! could tell the moment it first played... heard things never heard before quite astonishing   :o

Oh, yeah!  It's in a whole other league for sure!  :singing:  As much as I love LIO DAC 1.0, it is hard going back once you've been
using DAC 2.0.


Quote
It does run hot….guess that this what the heat sink is for ;-)) and smells like new electronics when playing.

This is normal (the heat sinks on the d/a chips are bonded via an adhesive that has that smell, and it goes away).

 Just make sure you have the LIO DAC 2.0 rear plate attached to the LIO rear panel (via the 4 hex nuts).  Make sure they are secure, but do not over-tighten.  Doing this also helps transfer some heat into the metal of the rear panel.


Quote
I had to turn down the SDM to -4db to keep it stable believe that is more Rendu issue

Correct.  And it could also be related to how much computer processing power you have.

I also recommend try upsampling to DSD256 ("Quad-DSD") in Roon.  I found with LIO DAC 2.0, it still gives nearly all the benefits
of upsampling to DSD512, but takes up less computer processing power. 


Quote
It seems to require less volume than DAC 1.0., is that due to the class A- JFET output?

They are both 2Vrms output, so it could be something else (e.g. gain setting in Roon) that is different?

I'm glad you are up and running and enjoying it!  Expect it to get even better with more hours of use !

Best regards,

Vinnie

jriggy

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #50 on: 5 Sep 2017, 08:30 pm »
Vinnie,

Have you quantified a 'full' break-in time? 150, 300, 500 hours?

Also, might there be an RCA>BNC adapter included?

All,
 More early reports please!  :drool:

radarnyc

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #51 on: 5 Sep 2017, 11:41 pm »
I just got my DAC 2.0 today. No up-sampling done yet, just running through my favorite tracks. Like others, the difference is recognized immediately with separation of instruments being most pronounced. Even more substantial is the improvement with some of my higher quality DSDs.
My music is stored on a vortexbox running Fedora/Linux and LMS. DAC was recognized by Fedora/Linux without any issues.
Just wow...I really can't believe what I'm hearing.
Thank you so very much Vinnie for being a visionary and bringing products of this quality to the marketplace.
Very best to everyone.
(mike in ny)

Vinnie R.

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #52 on: 6 Sep 2017, 04:13 am »
Vinnie,

Have you quantified a 'full' break-in time? 150, 300, 500 hours?

Also, might there be an RCA>BNC adapter included?


Hi jriggy,

Hard to really come up with an exact time, but after the 1st 100 hours, you are > 95% there.  :wink:

A BNC-to-RCA adapter is included for non trade-in orders.  If you are trading in your LIO DAC 1.0, then keep
your BNC-to-RCA adapter... or let me know if you lost it and I'll give you a special price on a new one.  :green:

Quote
Like others, the difference is recognized immediately with separation of instruments being most pronounced. Even more substantial is the improvement with some of my higher quality DSDs.

Just wow...I really can't believe what I'm hearing.
Thank you so very much Vinnie for being a visionary and bringing products of this quality to the marketplace.

Thank you for posting your initial impressions, Mike (and everyone!!!)  :notworthy:


I snapped a few cell phone pics of a LIO DAC 2.0 on the workbench:



[There is a linear voltage regulator behind the heat sink that does the lion share of reducing the input voltage from the ultracap banks, so it does get fairly warm]







[Side view of the LIO DAC 2.0's neat and tidy 3-PCB stack.  The little heat sink on the top is for the LEFT D/A chip.  There is also one on the RIGHT D/A Chip, which is located on the middle-level PCB.  The two transistors coming off of the top and middle PCBs are used in the Class A analog output stage and get warm, so they are near the ventilation slots on the rear panel]




[Here is a better view of the top PCB for the left channel.  Pretty much the entire left half of this PCB is the discrete Class A analog output stage, and linear voltage regulators for the output stage and D/A chip.   You can also see the mute relay on the bottom left side of this pic.  This is a very silent reed relay, so you shouldn't hear audible "clicks" during song changes of files that are of different sample rates.

The mid-level and top-level PCBs are the same (except one is configured for LEFT channel, and one is configured for RIGHT channel).

The bottom PCB is for the digital inputs, as well as the XILINX FPGA, oscillators, re-clock circuit, PIC micro (control firmware), linear regulators for various 5V, 3.3V, 2.5V, 1.8V, etc.]

Vinnie

jriggy

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #53 on: 6 Sep 2017, 06:55 pm »
Hi jriggy,

Hard to really come up with an exact time, but after the 1st 100 hours, you are > 95% there.  :wink:

A BNC-to-RCA adapter is included for non trade-in orders.  If you are trading in your LIO DAC 1.0, then keep
your BNC-to-RCA adapter... or let me know if you lost it and I'll give you a special price on a new one.  :green:


Thanks For the offer Vinnie.. I'm trading in amp module 1.0 I actually have one--found it. Besides, I decided to go ahead and send one of my digital cables off for retermination to BNC conector. So all will good when the DAC arrives!

tme110

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #54 on: 6 Sep 2017, 07:58 pm »
I installed my DAc2.0 over the weekend as well as upgraded my microRendu to an Ultra. I spent sometime a number of configurations to see the increment impact of the two additions.

You should test it with the uRendu and without and let us know if it makes a difference.  I'm using a mRendu but am looking into not using any streamer.



The DAC was as easy as you'd expect to install.  I wasn't able to verify the pins of the main board were lined up (well, I could on one side but not the other), but everything else was lined up and it aligned with the screw holes so everything came together correctly.

It's amazing how small the marvel of technology that the DAC2.0 is.  Yes, it is larger than the DAC1.0 but I had never seen that out before, and with all that technology, you're (or I was) just thinking it would be bigger.  So it's impressive everything fits on three tiny boards.

I went straight to DSD512 and it worked without issue.  I'm using an i7 Sonic Transporter and wasn't sure it was going to handle it but it does.  Though when I'm playing SACD rips, my processor rating goes down to 1.1 sometimes but that's because it's also downconverting from 5.1 to 2.0.  I do get a hickup here and there so I contacted the maker of the sonic transport and he said he knew about hickups with DSD512 and said an update was coming - it did yesterday but haven't had time to test it.  The sonic transporter has no fan or moving parts and makes no noise.  It does get slightly warm playing DSD512, but it has never heated up before at all - so it is working hard.  Using the new Audeze filters make no noticeable difference, but we'll see once I get a convolution filter going too.

Vinnie R.

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #55 on: 6 Sep 2017, 11:14 pm »
Quote
It's amazing how small the marvel of technology that the DAC2.0 is.  Yes, it is larger than the DAC1.0 but I had never seen that out before, and with all that technology, you're (or I was) just thinking it would be bigger.  So it's impressive everything fits on three tiny boards.

Hi tme110,

Thanks for your post!

Yes, each LIO DAC 2.0 board is 3" x 3", multiplied by 3 boards adds up to 27 square inches.  It makes use of many surface mount (SMD) components to keep the design as compact as possible.

Quote
I went straight to DSD512 and it worked without issue.  I'm using an i7 Sonic Transporter and wasn't sure it was going to handle it but it does.

Quote
It does get slightly warm playing DSD512, but it has never heated up before at all - so it is working hard. 

Glad you are up and running already with DSD512!   Try Roon DSD256 upsampling as well.  I was surprised by how close it sounds to DSD512 upsampling, and you probably won't get any hiccups.

Enjoy it!

Vinnie

yardbird4

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #56 on: 7 Sep 2017, 03:50 pm »

  Though when I'm playing SACD rips, my processor rating goes down to 1.1 sometimes but that's because it's also downconverting from 5.1 to 2.0. 


What app are you using for your SACD rips.  I have a number of SACD's that I need to rip.

tme110

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #57 on: 8 Sep 2017, 04:17 pm »
There's no software.  You need a gen1 PS2 or a previous gen OPPO and about a month of troubleshooting to make it work.  It's an easy/quick process once it works but  I don't think most people would want to go thru the hassle.

yardbird4

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #58 on: 9 Sep 2017, 04:06 am »
Thanks.  It does sound like more trouble than I am willing to deal with. :o

jpm

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #59 on: 9 Sep 2017, 04:33 am »
Thanks.  It does sound like more trouble than I am willing to deal with. :o

There may be ripping services which will do SACDs for you, but I know of none myself.