Immersive Audio Is Just Better!

witchdoctor · « **Reply #280 on:** 20 Mar 2019, 12:57 pm »

Hmmmm, it seems the topic of immersive audio is controversial. Henry Ford once said if I asked the people what they wanted they would have said faster horses. I get it. Here is some evidence that immersive is here to stay:

1) It is available to the "mass market" at ever decreasing price points. I just bought a NINE channel immersive receiver for less than $500 for the man cave.
2) It is backward compatible with ALL formats, 2 channel, 5 channel, and 7 channel.
3) It is NOT an either or decision. When you upgrade to immersive you KEEP the two channel option using the remote.
4) The jump from 2 channel to 9 or 10 channel may be a leap. MANY people already have 5+ channel and for them it's just a baby step.
5) Immersive is where the puck is going. Amazon, Netflix, Vudu, Sony are already streaming immersive content. UHD discs with immersive soundtracks are more common.
6) Immersive audio can be upmixed from two channel. I have already posted links from critics and engineers who prefer immersive to two channel, every time, with all music genres.

Why is this so controversial? Don't believe a witchdoctor? All good. Check out this round table of experts (at 21 min in Wilfred Van Balen discusses the development of auro 3d):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6IfhQoJ5OI

witchdoctor · « **Reply #281 on:** 20 Mar 2019, 01:19 pm »

How to get started? I wouldn't buy a receiver/processor for the main listening area without Auro 3D. If you want to get in the game at a modest price point that means a Denon or Marantz receiver:

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marsr7012/marantz-sr7012-9.2-ch-x-125-watts-a/v-receiver-w/heos/1.html

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/denavrx4500h/denon-avr-x4500h-9.2-ch-x-125-watts-a/v-receiver-w/heos/1.html

witchdoctor · « **Reply #282 on:** 20 Mar 2019, 01:30 pm »

Speakers? If you are adding on to your current system use small direct radiators from the same brand using the auro 3d setup format (which works GREAT with atmos and dts-x.)

If you are starting from scratch Boston Acoustic are also a D&M brand and have excellent synergy. You might consider:

1) 9 or 10 of these:
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/bosa26gba/boston-acoustics-a26-6.5-2-way-bookshelf-speaker-gloss-black-each/1.html

and a pair of these:

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/bosasw250gba/boston-acoustics-asw250-10-250-watt-a-series-subwoofer-black/1.html

They also sell a package (7.2.4) but ceiling speakers are fine for atmos/dts-x but not that good for auro 3D. You also have the issue of big towers in your space but that is a matter of taste. If you are crossing over with a sub I don't see the need for a tower but maybe you like to listen to two channel with out the the sub engaged:

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/bosbundle4/boston-acoustics-a-series-7.2.4-ultimate-home-theater-speaker-package/1.html

Here is a review on this series in a 5.1 setup, the reviewer basically fell in love:

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/speaker/surround-sound-speaker-systems-reviews/boston-acoustics-a-series-51-home-theater-speakers/

witchdoctor · « **Reply #283 on:** 20 Mar 2019, 01:39 pm »

BTW, if you think that Boston Acoustics A26 book shelf speaker is too "inexpensive" to be any good don't hesitate to read this review:

https://www.whathifi.com/boston-acoustics/a26/review

If that is till too much money get 5 or 7 A26 for the bed channels and then 4 Soundware speakers (that come with mounting hardware, no worries) for the height channels:

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/bossoundwareblka/boston-acoustics-soundware-4.5-speaker-atmos-dts-x-on-wall-speaker-black-each/1.html

witchdoctor · « **Reply #284 on:** 20 Mar 2019, 02:05 pm »

If you have deeper pockets I would go with a Marantz immersive processor and 9 or 10 ACTIVE speakers. It is a bit of a PIA to have to plug them all in and run long interconnects but you can avoid buying amps and speaker wires. I use Mogami Gold XLR cables which are used in the studios and are very reasonable. Options:

One of these: https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marav7705/marantz-av7705-11.2-ch-a/v-preamp/processor-w/heos/1.html

and for ACTIVE speakers 9 or 10 of these: https://www.amazon.com/JBL-305PMKII-Powered-Studio-Monitor/dp/B077N2GQXC/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=16Y25O4GS8CH5&keywords=jbl+305p+mkii&qid=1553090632&s=gateway&sprefix=jbl+305%2Caps%2C428&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

or if you want to follow in the footsteps of Abbey Road Studios (but on a budget) 9 or 10 of these. Neumann is known more for microphones so I am posting a review:

https://www.prosoundnetwork.com/gear-and-technology/review-neumann-kh80-dsp-monitors

witchdoctor · « **Reply #285 on:** 20 Mar 2019, 02:49 pm »

Immersive audio at AES 2019 next week:

http://www.aes.org/events/146/workshops/?ID=6595

witchdoctor · « **Reply #286 on:** 20 Mar 2019, 02:53 pm »

Anyone attending the NAB show in Vegas next month FYI. Get a PERSONAL demo with the CEO or CTO of Auro 3D, see press release below::

April 6-11th, Auro Technologies will be attending THE annual event for broadcast, streaming and OTT….NAB Show, Las Vegas, 2019. The show will play host to all the latest technologies and the key professionals, innovators and thought leaders across the media, entertainment and technology sectors.

Attending will be Auro Technologies Rudy Van Duppen, CEO and Bert Van Daele, CTO. They will be available for appointments April 6th-11th so to book please email sales@auro-technologies.com.

Also during the show from April 8th-11th, at The Renaissance Hotel, Vegas, Auro Technologies will demo Auro-3D 9.1 and showcase our groundbreaking streaming codec, Auro®-Cx™. This will be a great way to experience its full capabilities and what sets it apart.

About the show: https://www.nabshow.com/about-nab-show/show-overview

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #287 on:** 20 Mar 2019, 04:01 pm »

Well, I wanted to respond that despite the tough road for all new formats, the fact that I can go to a Cinemark theater not too awful far from my home and hear it is very enticing. And getting the technology into movie theaters that even casual audiophiles attend is a fabulous boon for this format. Would Dolby be such an ubiquitous format if its name wasn't in every movie theater in the world?

For home installation the market is much smaller, most people want a soundbar and maybe a sub. But as small as it is, the home theater market is still big enough to keep the few B&M stores left open, two channel only stores are virtually extinct. These stores are in affluent neighborhoods where people have an extra gameroom to install a home theater. Therefore the appeal for how cheap it can be falls on deaf ears. Most middle class audiophiles have talked their spouse into a couple of speakers, maybe some tiny surround models, preferably wireless, in the livingroom, or are using a spare bedroom for a dedicated two channel setup.

While very intriguing from a technology standpoint and a real option for a tiny market, widespread market development is quite doubtful. The OP is very excited about this and other products he promotes on this site. Unfortunately the effect is to give one pause as to the motives of both the content and volume of these posts.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #288 on:** 20 Mar 2019, 04:32 pm »

If you have the bucks and don't want your room look totally ridiculous with nine speakers, I would look into the new Gallo Droplet speakers. They hang from the ceiling and will give more of the modern look in your home. I think they look very Cool.

Oops, I mean awesome.

Of course , add subwoofers.

Phil A · « **Reply #289 on:** 20 Mar 2019, 05:58 pm »

Quote from: Letitroll98 on 20 Mar 2019, 04:01 pm

Unfortunately the effect is to give one pause as to the motives of both the content and volume of these posts.

The original title of the thread probably didn't help. I'm 2-channel for music (but have 11 channels for the main system for movies). As I noted earlier, once a year or so I may demo some multi-channel DSD files (have to convert to 24/88.2 with the current receiver in that system) or have fun with an old Carver C-9 Sonic Holography unit. I personally don't have a problem with anyone's preferences or enthusiasm for anything related to the hobby. I help people all the time, whether it is for 2-channel, multi-channel, computer audio, etc. I don't have to have the same preferences. Everyone should just enjoy. Ignore this thread or any other you don't like (whether it is about cables - and let's not start) or anything else. I never feel a need to convert anyone to my preferences. It's bad enough there is one of me.

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #290 on:** 21 Mar 2019, 12:57 pm »

Headed to the cleaners.....

ServerAdmin · « **Reply #291 on:** 21 Mar 2019, 03:14 pm »

This one will need to be scrubbed a couple of times... will have another go tomorrow.

witchdoctor · « **Reply #292 on:** 22 Mar 2019, 02:19 pm »

I have a new post about the presentation on immersive audio at the AES show in Dublin tomorrow. I'll hold off until the thread is scrubbed.

ServerAdmin · « **Reply #293 on:** 24 Mar 2019, 02:22 am »

So the topic is back in place. I swear, anyone who posts anything that helps push it back to Quarantine will a. have your posts summarily deleted and b. your account will be put in the doghouse for an unspecified period of time.

You have been warned

witchdoctor · « **Reply #294 on:** 24 Mar 2019, 01:47 pm »

Soooo, yesterday at AES 2019 in Dublin was ALL about immersive audio. You had demo's hosted by Genelec and some nice presentations.
Kimio Hamasaki presented on Auro 3D:

https://twitter.com/Genelec/status/1109043988265402370

Strategies for 3D Immersive Audio:

http://www.aes.org/events/146/tutorials/?ID=6582

Music Production for Immersive Formats:

http://www.aes.org/events/146/tutorials/?ID=6584

3D Sound Recording with 9.1 Demo's

http://www.aes.org/events/146/tutorials/?ID=6604

Immersive Audio Demystified

http://www.aes.org/events/146/pse/?ID=6730

witchdoctor · « **Reply #295 on:** 24 Mar 2019, 01:51 pm »

Why all the interest in immersive audio? Genelec was hosting demo's of immersive audio throughout all 3 days of the conference. Why would the top audio engineers be interested in hearing a demo of immersive audio hosted by one of the top speaker companies for pro's?

The only way you can answer that question is to get a demo for yourself. The WD thinks you should get a demo BEFORE making any more $$$ 2 channel investments.

poseidonsvoice · « **Reply #296 on:** 24 Mar 2019, 03:46 pm »

WD,

Thanks for the links and comments.

Genelec is one of my favorite companies, particularly because they pay close attention to directivity control. The Genelec S360 SAM monitor was particularly developed for the immersion audio applications and from all other aspects, appears to be an excellent speaker overall. The horizontal and vertical polar plots tell all: https://www.genelec.com/sites/default/files/s360_brochure_0.pdf

https://youtu.be/_75rItjchVM

Best,

Anand.

grsimmon · « **Reply #297 on:** 24 Mar 2019, 05:45 pm »

I'm guessing that a potential downside for some people, is having many small speakers around the room and associated cabling, low WAF, etc.

A suggestion I have is, one way to go in the direction of immersive, but maybe maintain WAF, is try omnidirectional speakers, in either 2 channel or 3 channel configuration. 3 channel is possible with a variety of processors, including analog like the Trinaural Processor from SST, or an old McCormack MAP multi-channel preamp.

I currently run a McCormack MAP-1 preamp, with Mirage OMD-28 floorstanders, Mirage OMD-5 bookshelf speaker for center ambience fill, and small Sunfire sub for bottom fill-in. The soundstage and overall musical presentation is just phenomenal. Not the greatest WAF but tolerable. Someday I plan to upgrade (but physically downsize) to Duevel Venus or Bella, or German Physiks Unlimited, and anticipate that the sound will improve again. I've been running omni for about 7 years now and will never go back, it's not even close. If you're interested and up for a good read, see the Morrison Audio website all about point-source omni.

witchdoctor · « **Reply #298 on:** 24 Mar 2019, 05:57 pm »

In my 15.1 media room I found active speakers the way to go. I guess you could have three 5 channel amps but my active speakers are bi-amped so although you have 15 speakers it is really 30 channels of amplification. Those Genelecs would be a GREAT choice for a 9.1 + system in an auro 3d configuration.

In the man cave I went 5.4.1 due to room constraints. I have seen those mirage systems on Amazon and what appealed to me was they came with speaker mounts, were small, and would fit just about anywhere. The idea of using an omnidirectional speaker for immersive audio sounds like a GREAT match. As Atmos speakers the MX speakers would make an easy install on the ceiling vs. in ceiling speakers.

witchdoctor · « **Reply #299 on:** 26 Mar 2019, 04:10 pm »

Genelec states "Immersive Audio is a Reality"

Check out their solutions, nice overview and amazing SQ. One thing about Genelec is their speakers are relatively small and the sound is BIG. This brochure discusses the familar Atmos, DTS-X and Auro 3D formats but also the MPEG-H 3D format which is a new potential standard:

https://www.genelec.com/sites/default/files/immersive_audio_brochure_180806_web.pdf