Looking for my first real turntable

mca · « **on:** 12 Dec 2016, 07:01 pm »

I've decided to buy myself a decent turntable. I would like to be in the 3-4k range including cartridge. I have been looking at VPI and Clearaudio when I got an email from Audio Advisor with this deal:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EACSHAOK&variation=BLKCARBO

This looks like a pretty decent turntable to me and if I buy the Ortofon Black cartridge with it, the cartridge is half price. Getting a record cleaning machine for free is also a nice bonus.

Does anyone know anything about this table or have another recommendation in this price range?

Folsom · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Dec 2016, 07:59 pm »

I'd spring for a PTP with Wand tonearm. You'll be a hair over $4k once you get a cartridge. I'd start with a cheaper cartridge, and learn how to set it up properly. Proper setup means more than upgrading turntables.

Personally I don't think belt based turntables are as good as DD or idler. But they're more accessible and easier to deal with in general. (Direct Drives need power conditioning, is my experience so far, so that's another ball game)

sunnydaze · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Dec 2016, 08:19 pm »

Quote from: mca on 12 Dec 2016, 07:01 pm

...........
Does anyone know anything about this table or have another recommendation in this price range?

I know nothing about EAT or their tables, but just today was browsing AG boards and came across this very complimentary post on the EAT model I assume is just below the C Sharp:

cine100
31 posts
11-17-2016 2:01pm
I recently purchased an EAT (European Audio Team) C Major that came with an Ortofon Quintet Blue MC cartridge, arm, record clamp and dust cover. This set up was only 2500 (but was originally 3500). The tone arm is phenomenal and seemingly worth what the entire package cost and the high output MC cartridge came already aligned from the factory. This deck is extremely compact and free of fuss. The plinth, like the tone arm is made of carbon fiber and it all just exudes quality. I have it matched with a Primaire R32 Phono Pre-amp (1000), Unison Research Preludio integrated amp (4200), Opera Loudspeaker Secondas (4200), Audioquest cabling & AC power center and the sound is unbelievably satisfying. The speed is rock solid steady, and the play back is ultra quiet. The sound is layered with air, detail, emotion, and warmth and will bring a smile to any listener's face. EAT previously only made very expensive analog rigs (10k to15k) but this new model is a very successful attempt at offering high quality for a reasonable amount. For a grand more, you can get the C Minor which adds a separate speed controller, 10" instead of a 9" arm, an even better cartridge & a more robust record clamp. Both of these choices offer extreme value in a compact turntable system and come highly recommended.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/downsizing-from-vpi-hw-19

Here is the deal on AA I assume he refers to (also w/ free record cleaner), and is $1000 less than the Sharp.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EAKCMJOK&variation=BLKCAR&gclid=Cj0KEQiAsrnCBRCTs7nqwrm6pcYBEiQAcQSznHJpHDnL3xDboyYCrDT3XDvMOSlhgO9KYvQgGW_XDx0aAgKO8P8HAQ

Just on cursory look these setups look very nice. Were I in the market I'd give them serious consideration.

mca · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Dec 2016, 10:34 pm »

It looks like the deal has already sold out

Folsom · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Dec 2016, 10:51 pm »

Oh darn you might have to suffer through a PTP.

mca · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Dec 2016, 11:13 pm »

Folsom, what exactly is a PTP

Folsom · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Dec 2016, 11:21 pm »

The only other thing I'd consider under this price point is making my own from an idler, or a direct drive JVC (requires power conditioning). I use a JVC right now. I would upgrade to the PTP with Wand in a heart beat. I'd probably suffer a few more months and go for 12" in however once I saved a little bit more.

http://www.ptpaudio.com/

IMO don't get fooled into thinking the cartridge is the answer to your prayers. Once one is setup it's going to be awesome even if it's not spendy. The second biggest issue on affordable turntables I've found is the mat. I use a Herbies and cork on top of it. I've tried both on their own, felt, and rubber, and honestly think the problem is that mats either deaden the reflection from the bottom of the vinyl (cork), or dampen noise coming up from the platter (Herbies). So I do both and I can't be happier about the results.

RPM123 · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Dec 2016, 12:26 am »

This is an interesting looking turntable and well within your budget, plus it's made in the USA.

https://www.shinola.com/audio.html?gclid=CPW0mtnz79ACFZFefgodxpAJog

TomS · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Dec 2016, 12:45 am »

I have a Trans-Fi Salvation with Terminator T3Pro linear air bearing arm, slate plinth, rim drive, repeatable vta on the fly, simple and inexpensive arm wand changes, magnetic feet, magnetic bearing, etc. ~$3k plus a few options, so still under $4k all in. It's a low volume, but very high performance combo. I've had it for several years and love mine.

http://www.trans-fi.com/salvation.htm

Folsom · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Dec 2016, 02:54 am »

RimDrive is something that I think has potential. But I don't agree with magnetic "bearings" in the least. And the nub mat thing is a halfway solution to me. It would work better if you had cork below the nubs.

I think the Terminator arm is an amazing piece, especially for the price. But you have to admit it isn't a bit intimidating for people that are just getting really good at tuning a regular turntable.

Syrah · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 Dec 2016, 03:26 am »

In that price range, you should seriously consider a VPI Prime. They sound incredible for the money. Plus (although it's now a decent sized company) they have bespoke customer service. If you live in the US, that's another good reason to buy one. If anything goes wrong (which it probably won't) fixing it is usually a snap.

Vic at TransFi is a really good guy too. I have his tonearm on another table. I'd love to hear a VPI/TransFi shootout.

TomS · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Dec 2016, 03:57 am »

Quote from: Folsom on 13 Dec 2016, 02:54 am

RimDrive is something that I think has potential. But I don't agree with magnetic "bearings" in the least. And the nub mat thing is a halfway solution to me. It would work better if you had cork below the nubs.
...

Well, good for you. You're obviously entitled to your expert opinion

I actually own it and have incrementally upgraded it for several years, including the bearing, multiple mats, feet, wands, etc., so can speak from actual experience.

Quote from: Syrah on 13 Dec 2016, 03:26 am

In that price range, you should seriously consider a VPI Prime. They sound incredible for the money. Plus (although it's now a decent sized company) they have bespoke customer service. If you live in the US, that's another good reason to buy one. If anything goes wrong (which it probably won't) fixing it is usually a snap.
...

The VPI Prime is definitely a great choice, low risk, and a solid option in the OP's price range. I previously had a loaded VPI Scoutmaster Signature with all the goodies - rim weight, center weight, speed control, arm wand/wiring upgrade, etc. Even with all that, the Salvation/ET3 is clearly on another level vs that much older table/arm, especially in the bass and noise floor. Still, I'd love to hear a Prime in my setup as I suspect they'd be much closer now. It's an impressive package for sure, at a great street price.

Folsom · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Dec 2016, 04:01 am »

Relax, no need to be snoody, Tom. I'm sure it's a better turntable than I'm using. But I'm not going to pretend like the magnetic bearing page is accurate.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 Dec 2016, 04:45 pm »

Well-tempered tables also have a lot of fans around AC. Not as impressive to look at, but great sound. I loved mine before moving on to my current Townshend Rock 7. Think the Rock is out of your price range new, but maybe a used one pops up or the depressed price of the UK pound makes it a screaming deal if bought from a UK dealer, even when you factor in shipping costs.

TomS · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 Dec 2016, 05:04 pm »

Vinnie Rossi has used the Acoustic Signature tables from Germany for his show setups with Harbeth and they always sound very good with vinyl. I'm not familiar with all the models, but they seem to have one to suit every budget. Worth a look.

sandbagger · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Dec 2016, 08:59 pm »

Quote from: RPM123 on 13 Dec 2016, 12:26 am

This is an interesting looking turntable and well within your budget, plus it's made in the USA.

https://www.shinola.com/audio.html?gclid=CPW0mtnz79ACFZFefgodxpAJog

Its actually a VPI table

roscoeiii · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Dec 2016, 09:05 pm »

Quote from: sandbagger on 13 Dec 2016, 08:59 pm

Its actually a VPI table

A very pretty VPI designed table, built in Detroit rather than onsite at VPI in NJ (I think that's where VPI is...)

matthewpartrick · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 Dec 2016, 01:11 am »

Quote from: TomS on 13 Dec 2016, 12:45 am

I have a Trans-Fi Salvation with Terminator T3Pro linear air bearing arm, slate plinth, rim drive, repeatable vta on the fly, simple and inexpensive arm wand changes, magnetic feet, magnetic bearing, etc. ~$3k plus a few options, so still under $4k all in. It's a low volume, but very high performance combo. I've had it for several years and love mine.

http://www.trans-fi.com/salvation.htm

And a nice LIO if I do say myself!

G E · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Dec 2016, 03:30 am »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 13 Dec 2016, 04:45 pm

Well-tempered tables also have a lot of fans around AC. Not as impressive to look at, but great sound. I loved mine before moving on to my current Townshend Rock 7. Think the Rock is out of your price range new, but maybe a used one pops up or the depressed price of the UK pound makes it a screaming deal if bought from a UK dealer, even when you factor in shipping costs.

+1 on Well Tempered turntables. I have the original Amadeus and it is QUIET and lively presentation. A friend who had a decent VPI table said the Amadeus was a lot quieter than his deck. I heard his old VPI and it was good but exciting is NOT a word id use to describe its sonics.

http://www.welltemperedlab.net/welltemperedlab/products/

jarcher · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Dec 2016, 07:25 am »

I've heard the c major. Beautiful looking table but oddly very warm sounding even with the relatively bright quintet blue. Only table we've demoed that actually sounded worse for some reason on a platform.

Totally don't understand Folsom's beef with magnetic bearings......

Re : runwell - similar parts supplier (hurst / mdi engineering) but that's where the similarity to VPI ends.

TomS : table looks like a Vader / Kylo Ren interrogation device : very bad ass!