[Hiphile]

I'm about to give up on my recently bought Maggies .7 this is a tough decision because I just love how these things sound with 75% of my music collection. The issue is not with the low end per se, acoustic bass sound magnificent. My problem is what the British call PRAT factor, drive and dynamics in the lower frequencies are a turn off when I listen to old Rock music Yes, Genesis et al. I'm seriously considering the Eminent Technology LFT-8b but will appreciate some comments from people with previous experience with this speaker. Can consider a subwoofer if and only if they can completely solve the problem with the low frq's. dynamics, which I doubt. This seems to be an inherent shortcoming of the design. I will like the sub to be my last option, don't like the idea of the extra cost involved,  an extra power cord, extra cables, is annoying having an extra box in the floor, and tweeking all over again the speaker's placement.
Thanks for your patience and advice

[Jonathon Janusz]

I haven't heard the Magnepan .7.  I have owned the ET LFT8b.  I liked the ETs, but in my opinion I don't think they will get you what specifically you mention that you are looking for.  The cone drivers don't as much fill out (if that makes sense) the speakers as much as they attempt to allow the speaker to reach lower with a similar voice.  I say similar because, although the cone drivers were good, if I had it to do over again with those speakers I would run just the panels alone and hand them off to a pair of open baffle subs.  I'll bow out of discussing subs further, as you make mention that you would like to avoid them if possible, and focus on solutions that don't involve adding subs.

I think to get some of what you are after, going bigger (as in more surface area for the drivers) in the maggie family (3.7?) is the right idea.  If I can offer my own suggestion, maybe at the expense of the last n-th degree of air on top compared to maggies (or the ETs),  kingsound electrostats really surprised me in getting the kind of music you ask about right.  For rock music, I would put them representing panel speakers head to head with many very good cone driver speakers I've heard.  If I am reading your thoughts well, I am proposing the sort of thing that would be less about adding "jump" and more about adding "body" in the midrange/lower midrange (again, if that makes sense) where the heart of rock guitar lives.

I'll leave the discussion (debate) on dynamics from the speakers you ask about to others.  I hope at least a bit of this helps.  Best of luck in sorting things out!

[Early B.]

What amp are you using to power the speakers? In fact, tell us more about your entire system.

Keep in mind that your speakers have a frequency response similar to a bookshelf speaker. Without subs, you can't expect to hear decent PRAT.   And if drive and dynamics on the lower frequencies are a turn off when listening to rock music, then you must be accustomed to hearing "bad bass."

If you want better sound, you'll need a good sub, at a minimum.

[Minn Mark]

Is there any way you can go to bigger Maggies? I'm listening to my 3.6R's now and have been a happy owner for many years.  The PRAT you may be missing may be in moving up the product line.

Cheers,

Mark

[Letitroll98]

I had exactly the same problem and moved from Maggies (Modded MMGs) to cone drivers (Meadowlark Audio Shearwater Hot Rod).  I still miss some things the Maggies could do, but love the things the Meadowlark's can do, bass and dynamics.  As noted above, the 3.7s solve most of the problems with bass and some of the dynamics problems, albeit at a not insignificant price increase.

[Hiphile]

Hi Early B, I using an Acoustat TNT-200 recently worked by Roy Esposito and a Vacuum Tube Audio SP9 preamp with a digital front end, my analogue gear is currently out of action. My previous speaker were  Merlins TSM which provided way more articulated and tight bass. Now, I hear my music at reasonable levels ( not head bangers here). The room dimensions are 16'.5 x 19' my main issue is, that the "tapping the foot" factor in the music's foundation is not there, the "low end" (I guessing between 40-80hz) rhythm and pace feels sluggish compared with the Merlin. Don't get me wrong they are fabulous, maybe to good in other areas for their own good. Probably I been to harsh toward these $1400.00 speakers 

[johnto]

As Early B mentioned I wonder what amp you are using. I had my 1.7 driven by emo 1l mono blocks and the Maggie's seemed to be missing that bottom end. I have now switched to a Parasound 2.1 and the difference is amazing in every aspect of the music sound stage, pacing, dynamics,foundation, bass can now be felt, granted the 1.7 is a larger speaker. I think as you go up the Maggie line most of the additional speaker mass is for the lower end.

[jarcher]

I'd echo what other's have said : need a 1.7 or 3.7 to extend lower, supplemented by a good sub (for me personally either a REL or HL Audio).  .7 is a great value speaker & brings Maggies to those who can't get the taller / larger ones past the wife.  Still think they could satisfy w/ a sub, but the 1.7s & 3.7's are really the "sweet spot" in Maggies.

I have a 1.7 w/ REL T9 and play a lot of rock.  The sub helps a lot w/ lower bass but also to flesh out mid bass as well. I wouldn't want to use a Maggie w/ out a sub. 

The old REL "R" series where noticeably tighter / faster than the "T" series but I didn't have the $ at the time.  Looking at it now in an affordable sub I'd get one of JL audios entry level "dominion" series subs. Even an 8" would be ok, but the 10" better.

Hope that helps!

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I run my 1.6's with dual subs and I have 2 friends that have 1.7's and 3.7's and they use dual subs as well.  One sub would be fine. But 2 subs really give you more depth and presence.  The subs give you that full bottom end and also pressurize the room like a box speaker.  If you go with a sub, get something non ported for better integration.  Something like an SB-1000 from SVS, Rhythmik or Martin Logan Dynamo 700-1500 subs.  These are all reasonably priced subs and will sound better than many of the cheaper sub $1K REL subs that I have heard and they won't break the bank.  The higher end REL subs are excellent.  The Rythmik subs are excellent and a great buy.

A good amp helps.  I went from a Parasound A21 to a Pass Labs X250 and the dynamics and bottom end went from good to great.    They also like high current not just high wattage amps. The amps need to be able to deliver the goods when called upon.  Some of the new high power digital amps like Peach Tree pair well with Maggies.

I also recommend heavy gauge speaker wire, 10-12 gauge. 

[Hiphile]

Hi Grey, thanks for stepping in. A few months ago when I bought the speakers I posted a question about which Van Alstein amp will work better with the .7, your recommendations were spot on, you and others also  mentioned  the need of a sub, I didn't understood at the time the logistic behind the need for extra bass below 40Hz. I refused to agree with some of you guy's statements, I didn't care to shake the house but now I see what you guys were talking about, is not about HT low end reproduction but getting the music foundation right with good quality bass. Now I'm in thisdilemma of either selling the speaker losing money and get something else or risking more money with a sub.    Oh well!

[Tyson]

A good sub will serve you well, even if you change speakers in the future.

[Hiphile]

Hi Jonathon below is a quote from a review of Mr. Doug Schroeder I usually don't trust this type of glowing statements but if this gentleman is right This speakers are a hybrid of two of the most musical, best bang for the buck speakers I know of.  He mention something like the "holy grail" of affordable speakers. As a previous owner of ET I'll like to hear your take on this. Thanks!

"I realized Bruce had done it, made a speaker combining the best characteristics of Maggies and Vandys. This is what I heard:

*Excellent bass, midrange, treble integration
*Smooth highs, non-fatiguing like the Vandy
*Sweeping orchestral presentation in a large sound field like a Maggie
*Unexpectedly focused treble with only a glint of edge
*Strong bass without bloat"

[NIGHTFALL1970]

Like I.Greyhoundfan I also use dual subs with my 1.7s.  I hated the thought of using a sub at all, but after getting a Rhythmic I ended up getting a second (two subs sound a LOT BETTER than one)! Adding subs have made the Maggies the perfect sound for me.

[SteveFord]

If you like the Magnepan sound and have the room trade up to one of the larger models.
You can only expect a small panel to do so much when it comes to lower frequencies.
Adding a sub or two will get you to where you want to be.

One thing to keep in mind is the larger models are more revealing so if a component isn't up to snuff it will be shown up.

[Davey]

I currently use a pair of ET-LFT8b's.  I don't think you will go wrong with those speakers, but they do need some "adjustment" to sound their best.  The tweeters (of later iterations) are too hot and they need attenuation greater than the supplied "lo" tap on the resistor divider.

The woofer has a nasty resonance peak that's not well addressed by the crossover and needs a simple modification to attenuate the peak sufficiently.  If you want details on that, I can elaborate.

To me, these speakers check some boxes that Maggies don't, but the reverse is true also.  However, averaging all the plusses and minuses, I still think the ET speakers yield better performance overall.

Dave.

[Jonathon Janusz]

Hi Jonathon below is a quote from a review of Mr. Doug Schroeder I usually don't trust this type of glowing statements but if this gentleman is right This speakers are a hybrid of two of the most musical, best bang for the buck speakers I know of.  He mention something like the "holy grail" of affordable speakers. As a previous owner of ET I'll like to hear your take on this. Thanks!

"I realized Bruce had done it, made a speaker combining the best characteristics of Maggies and Vandys. This is what I heard:

*Excellent bass, midrange, treble integration
*Smooth highs, non-fatiguing like the Vandy
*Sweeping orchestral presentation in a large sound field like a Maggie
*Unexpectedly focused treble with only a glint of edge
*Strong bass without bloat"

I actually met Doug at RMAF a few years ago.  I met him in passing in the hall shortly after hearing the Kings the first time, and we got to talking about them and some tweaks he was working on with his personal pair before his review went online.  I also read his review of the ETs before getting them myself.  Please note that I have never heard the Vandy he was referring to in the review.

There were two revisions of tweeters on the LFT8 - an "a" version, and a "b" version.  I had the "a" version and field upgraded the "b" tweeters following the instructions Bruce included for the upgrade at my home.  I generally agree with Davey's thoughts on them, and mostly with Doug.  The "b" tweeter (current version) was better in my opinion, but the "a" tweeter blended better with the midrange panel.  This is splitting hairs a little, but in reading Davey's thoughts on it, I think he may be on the right track - I had the "b" tweeters set to "low" on the crossover myself.  I never took measurements of anything with the speakers, and was doing things by ear alone, so I can't offer any insight as to the "right" answer to this question with any real confidence.

I agree with the great treble focus with a little bit of edge.  I would disagree with Doug on the "smooth, non-fatiguing" part a little with the disclaimer that these speakers are sensitive to the character of the upstream components.  I myself took the edge off and got to the kind of speaker Doug discussed by pairing them with a fairly beefy but noticeably darker sounding integrated amp.  I think this also gave me a little more grunt down low that got as much as I could out of the woofers as they were.

I would in difference to Doug call the bass simply taut (Doug's "without the bloat") without calling it "strong".  What is there is good, but I wouldn't be expecting miracles.  I actually wondered at one point how the speaker would behave with a pair of the woofers per speaker rather than just one...

I agree with Davey that the ETs are a really good speaker out of the box, for sure a great bang for the buck, and agree that they are less better or worse than the comparable sized magnepans, but more a different mix of strengths comparably.  I also agree having pulled them apart that there is a lot of potential in the crossover to get even more out of them.  Bruce (the designer/manufacturer) was also very approachable and helpful to work with when I contacted him about the speakers, and he helped me through some out of warranty support issues.

Getting back to what your original post was asking about, if you want to pick the ETs up as a change of pace, great, but I still think to get what you are after will require either a physically bigger planar (brand regardless) or as others have mentioned here (and I would also suggest myself if I were to make a suggestion) sticking with the size of speakers you're discussing and adding a pair of quality subs - Tyson's point about the subs being a versatile, long-term investment is a good one.

One thing about the ETs that I don't think was mentioned in the review that I would like to mention (as a plus for staying in the maggie camp) is the vertical off axis response.  The tweeter on the ETs does not run the length of the midrange panel, and drops off in response very quickly when you leave the direct vertical path of the tweeter (sitting height) and stand up.  Because this mattered to me, in my situation, in the room I was in at the time, this is one of the things that got me to move on from the ETs (and at the time completely the other direction into a setup with pro-sound high efficiency coaxials and tiny amps as I had never gone down that road before and was in the mood for a change of pace), but if you're mostly a dedicated listening in a focused setting kind of person, this is a non-issue and might actually be an advantage.

TL:DR - the ETs are a good speaker, a lot of potential, different rather than better than the small maggies, and I agree with other here that I think you would do well long-term no matter where your system goes from here investing in a pair of really good subs, which would likely get you where you are going even with your current speaker setup.

[Hiphile]

Geez!you guys description of the ETs doesn't sound like the "Holy Grail" of affordable speaker to me!. Just as I suspected a great design for the price with some inevitable compromises. Thank Davey and Jonathon for your insightful responces  really helped!! My amp won't be a good match with ETs for sure

[Early B.]

There are tons of practical considerations for all speakers, especially Maggies. First and foremost, Maggies need lots of room around them to sound good. Second, to get the best sound, you'll need dual subs as others have stated. That's a lot of real estate. If you're single or you have a dedicated listening room, you're fine. Otherwise, Maggies properly set up are likely to present some problems. 

The point I'm making is to first think about what is practical for your situation and the room, then design your system around it. So don't limit yourself to planars. There are lots of other options to choose from.     

[Davey]

The "Holy Grail of affordable speakers" is just reviewer rhetorical nonsense. 
All speakers have issues.  Some issues can be addressed and some not.  There are trade-offs everywhere.

The ET tweeter level issue is easily addressed.  You need to insert an external resistor of higher value (I use 12 ohms) between the tweeter black wire and the barrier strip "high" post.
In my opinion, the tweeter/midrange wiring polarity is not correct and the tweeter should be reversed.  However, this is not that big a deal.

The woofer issue is more involved to fix.  You need to remove the woofer and install a 30uf/1.5ohm RC across the terminals.  This will slope the woofer off out of band and alleviate the resonant peak without affecting the woofer/midrange crossover.

There are other issues as well, but these involve implementing a completely new crossover.  I have a couple of prototypes I've experimented with and both yield a sizable improvement in the character of the ET speaker.

Dave.

[mcgsxr]

During my Maggies phase I had both MMG's and then 1.6's.

For both I used a single sub.

I would say that for certain music (jazz and some blues) the 1.6's were fine without the sub.  I personally never felt the MMG's were.  I liked them, but only with the sub.

I have never heard 0.7's so I am unclear where they fall between MMG and 1.6.  I suspect they split the difference.

Since moving on myself, I am back to enjoying music, but there are still tunes that hit me as nowhere as good as the 1.6's were.  Nothing against my current speakers (Focal Electra 906's), they simply are NOT the same presentation.

In some cases they are better.  In some cases they are not.

My cats have not climbed my speaker stands though, and they were doing it all the time with my 1.6's so that is what eventually drove me to sell them off.