I2S DACs for the Raspberry Pi are getting really good

Odal3 · « **on:** 26 Oct 2016, 01:45 am »

The Raspberry Pi (RPI) continues to impress me as a music streamer/player. It has been fun following the development of the excellent open source software development that has giving us many options to enjoy the music.

There have been several threads here on AudioCircle about the RPI, but I don't think we have one that specifically focuses on i2S DACs (HAT boards) and related audio hardware developed for the RPI. I'm hoping we can use this thread to share impressions of different boards, tweaks done by yourself or found elsewhere on the net, etc. I will share my limited experience below, but I really hope to hear from other RPI users as well.

What is a Raspberry pi HAT: https://www.hifiberry.com/2014/08/what-is-a-raspberry-pi-hat/

When I first got my RPI 2, I felt hesitant to buy a specific i2s RPI HAT DAC with the concern that it would lock the DAC to a specific hardware platform. So for the first years I have used USB based DACs. However, earlier this year I was intrigued by the pi HAT hardware mod threads on diyaudio. The dedicated posters in those threads claimed that they could achieve some really good performance with the HAT boards.

The following describes a lot of tweaks for the hifiberry board but also discussions about the Mamboberry HiFi DAC+ (good thread to read to be inspired and it also includes a lot of comparisons)

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/285811-hifiberry-dac-pro-hw-mods-anybody.html

I haven't heard the Hifiberry Dac pro + myself, but here's a link
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/285811-hifiberry-dac-pro-hw-mods-anybody.html

My take from the thread above was that in order to get the Hifiberry Dac to really shine it requires some extensive hardware mods (mainly to get cleaner power) which is more than I think I could pull off myself + software and kernel tweaks. However, the general comments also implied that that the stock Mamboberry DAC delivered some impressive performance, but when I was ready to purchase it was of course out of stock (which was later revealed to be out of production due to the higher power demands of the RPI3). Fortunately the Mamboberry LS DAC+ was released a few months ago:

http://www.collybia.com/collybia-dacs/mamboberry-ls-dac/

...and it didn't take long for a new mamboberry hardware mod thread to start:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/295880-mamboberry-ls-my-new-pi-hat.html

After I read that it was supposed to perform just as good as the original one (not to mentioned it was cheaper) I ordered one. Since I'm in the US, I wasn't able to find a US distributor but the Volumio web store has started to stock a lot of interesting things lately including the Mamboberry so I got it from there: https://volumio.org/product/collybia-mamboberry-ls-dac/

Anyways, when I first turned it on and compared it to one of my USB DAC, my first thought was - why didn't I do this sooner. It sounded so much better than my my USB dac. This despite both DACs use the same SABRE 9023 chip. Well, I knew that the performance of the DAC has a lot to due with the implementation but I didn't expect this big of an improvement considering the Mamboberry's low price of $55.

After listening for a week or so, I noticed that the sound also made it a little bit more "fatiguing" than the more "veiled" sound from the USB dac. Not too bad but enough that I decided it was time to upgrade the power supply. The good thing with the Mamboberry is that it gives you three options to power it since it is set-up to take power from either the RPI (to power the DAC), the DAC (to power the RPI) or use two separate power supplies. Up to this point, I had only powered it via the RPI with the generic wall-wart I used for the RPI. The plan was always to update the PSU, but it felt a bit of an overkill getting an expensive linear supply for the $35 RPI + $55 DAC board so I bought the ifi Ipower 5V instead.

I'm very happy with the result with the Ipower and it pretty much removed the slightly "fatiguing" sound and made it nice and smooth.

The expensive linear power supplies are likely better (see for example: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonore-microrendu-power-supply-unit-observations-considerations-and-commentary-28480/ ) ...but the general consensus seems to be that the ipower is still a good power option - especially considering the price is only $50.

I'm sure that there are better DACs out there, but considering the low price of this set-up, I'm more than happy with the excellent result!

What else? I'm also reading a lot of good things about the Allo reclocker board that supposedly will reduce jitter and improve sound. I haven't heard one myself yet but you can read more about it in the mamboberry thread on diyaudio. Here's also a good introduction: http://www.dimdim.gr/2016/09/kali-fifo-buffer-reclocker-for-sbcs/

mresseguie · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 Oct 2016, 02:47 am »

Hi, Odal3.

Does the Sonore MicroRendu qualify for discussion here? I do not own one, but I know quite a few ACers own one and seem quite happy with it.

Thanks for mentioning Volumio.org.

I hadn't known about it - more to research....

Michael

Odal3 · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 Oct 2016, 05:00 am »

Hi Michael
From what I have read, the MicroRendu looks to be really really nice! I wish to try one out sooner than later. If I understand it correctly, it's a purpose-built micro computer with an ethernet input to a USB source. I have no doubt that the microrendu hardware is much better for USB audio than the generic low cost raspberry pi. However, this is slightly different than the DAC add-on boards for the RPI that takes advantage of I2S so you don't have to take the signal via an USB connection. The add-on boards are pretty much a plug-and-play solution and doesn't require any soldering, etc.

Definitely feel free to post any comparisons vs any RPI set-up, but since there already are a couple of threads about the microrendu itself (with glowing reviews), I'm hoping to keep it focused on RPI related hardware (and perhaps also software).

Quote

more to research....

but that is part of the fun, right?!

JLM · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 Oct 2016, 09:52 am »

$90 for streamer/player/DAC is highly intriguing, but have zero DIY skills for this kind of stuff. (For me, running a computer to the DAC equipped with a remote control is a stretch into high tech.) Is this gear really, really, really operationally stable? I dipped my toe into a modded Squeeze Box 2 years ago (fantastic design concept), that wasn't stable, and backed out for years.

Is anyone in the business of building them for sale? Say in a decent box?

dB Cooper · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 Oct 2016, 02:42 pm »

Hifiberry sells a steel enclosure as well as a plexi one.

I have DIY (well, kit-building) experience but, as I recently discovered, not good enough close range vision to deal with boards involving surface-mount parts (or IT chops to navigate in the Linux command line) so I'd be looking for pretty much a 'turnkey' solution also. Volumio seems to provide that.

JohnR · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 Oct 2016, 02:49 pm »

There are some complete units e.g. http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/hifi-devices/audiophonics-raspdac-network-player-raspberry-pi-20-dac-sabre-v3-p-11135.html

However, for "no hassle" solution (@JLM) I would suggest commercial supported like micro-rendu. RPi is cheap and cheerful

JohnR · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 Oct 2016, 02:51 pm »

Quote from: Odal3 on 26 Oct 2016, 01:45 am

What else? I'm also reading a lot of good things about the Allo reclocker board that supposedly will reduce jitter and improve sound. I haven't heard one myself yet but you can read more about it in the mamboberry thread on diyaudio. Here's also a good introduction: http://www.dimdim.gr/2016/09/kali-fifo-buffer-reclocker-for-sbcs/

This seems like something that has to be tried... hm..

Odal3 · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Oct 2016, 04:02 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 26 Oct 2016, 09:52 am

$90 for streamer/player/DAC is highly intriguing, but have zero DIY skills for this kind of stuff. (For me, running a computer to the DAC equipped with a remote control is a stretch into high tech.) Is this gear really, really, really operationally stable?

I would say yes it is mature with the caveat that applies to all software that there are always some bugs that could show up in some user scenarios (the same applies to established software such as Windows OS.)

There are premade "software packages" that are preconfigured with all the music players and network connections which makes the installation much much easier. In most cases there are no longer any need to run any linux command since the settings can be done via a graphical user interface. Take a look at for example Moode or Volumio.

These software packages includes many of the same players (MPD, Airplay, etc.) as the commercial offerings. MPD has for example been out for years.

But an RPI based streamer is not a complete turnkey solution and it's not for everyone. It is however easier to set up than it looks like. For example, if you can do the following you will probably be able to also set up the RPI yourself: a) Download, install and set up programs on a windows or mac computer b) set up a WiFi router.

The network aspect is probably the trickiest but that is probably true for most network streamers/players.

If you only want to try it out, a starting point would be to only get the RPI board ($35), a SD card (<$10) and reuse an old cell phone charger.

Here are some slightly dated instructions but most still applies (the latest version is now 3 that includes built in wifi)
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/638-geek-speak-raspberry-pi-hifi-here/

As far as commercial solutions, Salk, Bryston, Nuprime, etc. have raspberry pi based versions. I don't know how these compares to the diy versions.

Odal3 · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Oct 2016, 04:10 pm »

Quote from: dB Cooper on 26 Oct 2016, 02:42 pm

Hifiberry sells a steel enclosure as well as a plexi one.

I have DIY (well, kit-building) experience but, as I recently discovered, not good enough close range vision to deal with boards involving surface-mount parts (or IT chops to navigate in the Linux command line)

The good news is that there is no need to solder anything (unless you want to mod it). The only work needed for the raspberry pi is to mount it in a box, and insert a SD card. Power connection is a micro USB cable. The DAC board s follow a set layout standard so they can be added with no tools at all.

JohnR · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 Oct 2016, 01:51 pm »

@Odal3, I ordered a Kali with the Piano DAC. Thanks for the reminder

Mambos are out of stock, perhaps something to try later.

WC · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Oct 2016, 03:29 pm »

Quote from: JohnR on 27 Oct 2016, 01:51 pm

@Odal3, I ordered a Kali with the Piano DAC. Thanks for the reminder Mambos are out of stock, perhaps something to try later.

Which one did you get? The 2.0 or 2.1 DAC?

JohnR · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Oct 2016, 03:35 pm »

The regular piano - [Updated to link to stack/bundle] http://allo.com/sparky/bundle-kali-piano.html

While the other one sounds interesting, and I'd love to play with programming it, just something for a later time for me.

Odal3 · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Oct 2016, 04:02 pm »

Quote from: JohnR on 27 Oct 2016, 01:51 pm

@Odal3, I ordered a Kali with the Piano DAC. Thanks for the reminder Mambos are out of stock, perhaps something to try later.

Looking forward to hear what you think of it. Is it a hifiberry DAC that you use today?

JohnR · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Oct 2016, 04:15 pm »

Hi, no, using the DIGI+. (But trying other things now

)

chip · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Oct 2016, 05:48 pm »

Odal3 -

which usb dac you using?

I use this dac - http://hifimediy.com/9018-dac and have been considering the MAMBOBERRY LS DAC+ to compare.

Thanks

Odal3 · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Oct 2016, 08:11 pm »

Nothing fancy- just the little sibling to the Hifimediy you have but with the 9023 chip.

Hoping someone with better DACs can chime in to give a better reference point.

chip · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Oct 2016, 08:30 pm »

Is there any case combo if you add the dac/reclocker or even just the MAMBOBERRY LS DAC+ ?

Also in regards to the reclocker - Kali will not work if your DAC is a master. Dac has to be slave.

How does one know the difference....

JohnR · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 Oct 2016, 02:22 pm »

Quote from: chip on 27 Oct 2016, 08:30 pm

Is there any case combo if you add the dac/reclocker or even just the MAMBOBERRY LS DAC+ ?

Hi, do you mean something like this - http://allo.com/sparky/acrylic-case.html ? (only kinda sorta a case, I suppose...)

Quote

Also in regards to the reclocker - Kali will not work if your DAC is a master. Dac has to be slave.

How does one know the difference....

I hadn't realized until I looked at the Kali (and read that some DACs don't work) that there are DACs that run as clock master. Or, for that matter, that the DIGI+ runs as master. One giveaway is that the board has crystals on it - e.g. there are two in this picture of the Digi Pro -

In the end though, I suppose you need to ask the designer, or someone who has tried it, as until now this has never been an issue...

chip · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 Oct 2016, 02:30 pm »

Case wise more like this - https://www.hifiberry.com/product-category/cases/

Though I am intrigued by this device - https://volumio.org/raspberry-pi-display-and-volumio-touchscreen-music-player/

Odal3 · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 Oct 2016, 03:49 pm »

I haven't found a good case for the mambo berry yet. It looks like Tim from Moode Audio is going to sell some cases and Dac combos soon. Maybe he will release one fitting the mambo berry as well. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/271811-moode-audio-player-raspberry-pi-500.html#post4867106

For those using USB DACs instead of the HAT boards, I really recommend the FLIRC case. It looks really nice in person : https://flirc.tv/more/raspberry-pi-case