[TheChairGuy]

Wolfy,

I don't doubt I might like the AKSA's....likely don't want to try tho.  Among other things, I really like the less-is-more of an all-in-one receiver.

Your Timepieces will mame, kill, and slaughter the overachieving JVC ES1sl  

FYI - JVC RX-F10 - 2nd Day.  It sucks.  It's running exactly the course that the ES1sl did.  Very promising the first day, and horrible for about 5 days - somewhere around there I expect a glimmer of hope, 5 days later I hope to remark how everything is jelling and it's probably done cookin' in.  5 days later I realize how wrong I was as the treble response gets creamy smooth and kicks in.

blah, blah, blah, been thru this before...gr8.

Hey, the F10 really does have some more significant upgrades I found.  The DSP modes are very good...my local FM classical station sounds so much better in 'Hall 2' mode.  These modes are very well integrated....now I know what Digi DMason was babbling about in a few PM's to me  

The DSP function doesn't work in DVD Multi mode, tho.

Little things like the feel of the (otherwise similarly laid out) remote is better...the door runs along the track smoother for one thing. The F10 is an evolutionary upgrade of an already good receiver, but it is indeed an upgrade in many small, and significant ways.  Like power handling.

[ooheadsoo]

Impedance isn't a constant.  It has peaks and dips corresponding to the frequency and just knowing a manufacturer provided nominal impedance really doesn't tell the story at all.  So the es1sl may very well drive some 4 ohm speakers very satisfactorily while some other 4 ohm speakers with nasty dips and spikes will fare rather poorly.  Crossovers can typically correct badly behaving impedance but it's up to the designer to make the impedance play nice or not.  Sometimes having a hard to drive speaker makes the buyer feel like he has a "monster" of a system  

[mcgsxr]

Ahhh TheChairGuy, keep us posted as the F-10 breaks in, so we can see if it follows a similar process to the ES-1.

Hopefully in 10 days you will be happy with it, as it begins to stabilize.  As for my friend with the Mirages, well, we will play around with it - that is the most fun part right now for me, the experimentation portion, with affordable, decent sounding gear.

Presently the Totems are my mains, but following the arrival of the CSS drivers, once I box those up, it will be a horserace to see who wins the main seat.  Very different sound, but I won't know until they are on level ground (CSS need to be properly boxed).  The 8 ohm load of the CSS drivers leads me to think I might favour those, and I could wire the Totems in series with my ceiling in walls, and have 8 ohms in the back then...

[tex-amp]

Any AVS forum readers here?  

I caught this from Paul Scarpelli of Triad just the other day.  ".... and I have been exposed to another technology (can't talk about it) that will be dirt cheap and embraced by the audiophile community as well as the Joe-Six-Pack market."  http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4592021#post4592021


I'm assuming it is digital amps but could be way off base.

[Horizons]

My only question is can the JVC F10 drive the Maggie 1.6QR?  Somehow I doubt it.

I used to have the MMGs and now have the 1.6QR. I had no problems driving the MMG but DO have problems driving the 1.6. Every "receiver" I have ever tried falls short.

I guess for $250 I could try it and turn around and sell it on ebay if it didn't fly...

[TheChairGuy]

My only question is can the JVC F10 drive the Maggie 1.6QR?  Somehow I doubt it.

I used to have the MMGs and now have the 1.6QR. I had no problems driving the MMG but DO have problems driving the 1.6. Every "receiver" I have ever tried falls short.

I guess for $250 I could try it and turn around and sell it on ebay if it didn't fly...

Horizons,

-Richard-, one of our members here at AC, drove his 1.6's quite successfully with his JVC RX-F10.  That is what persuaded me to trade up from the ES1 (like all the receivers you've found - quite incapable of driving Maggies).  Look thru the other Posts on the JVC's to find his poetry about it.

Here I sit, on day 3.5, absolutely stunned at the drive the F10 has on the MMG's.  Now, it may be somewhat room dependent as my listening area is only 12 x 15' x 8-12'ceilings, but there is more than adequate drive, dynamics and volume for me in here.  Each day the sound blooms further.

As my ES1 was quite inept at driving the MMG's, I pressed my Audiosource Amp3 (usually configured as 400 w monoblock) to drive the MMG's while I waited the arrival of the F10.  The Audiosource did drive it well....as I expected a well designed 28 lb amp to.  It drove electrostatics in a test in 1997 here:
 
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_5_1/audiosourceamp3.html

Well, I'll tell you what....the F10 at $250 sounds far better than the $1800.00 or so in (Audiosource)amp, (Dynaco PAS-4)preamp, (Alpha-Core) IC and fatty (LAT International)PC's right now.  Way better.

With 10 days left to full break-in, I'm looking quite forward to results.

Horizons, you got little to lose at $250, my man.

[Horizons]

Thanks ChairGuy.

I think I will just try it. I am pretty bullish on JVC in general. They made two of the best sounding CD players I ever owned. Still kicking myself for selling the 1010 and 1050 CD players.

I searched and couldn't find any posts by Richard U regarding the 1.6 but I'm not denying what you are saying.

I tried the Panny 50 and it didn't cut it. A Sony unit was OK but ultimately in my very large room I ran out of gain too many times. On some quiet CDs the Sony sounded great but just didn't have the cojones to get the  musical juices flowing.

[mcgsxr]

Here is one of the places that Richard talks about the Maggies driven with a JVC, though it might not be the right one...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=11998.msg107110#107110&highlight=#107110

[TheChairGuy]

CanuckMark,

I do believe that's the one I remember...thanks for digging it up.  A great read, again, after this many months.

-Richard- may have even written once more as I remember it, but the first one was such a doozy.

Given what I'm hearing day four, Richard might be right on the money on his comments re:Maggies.

Horizons, the Panny's are rated to 8 ohms (as is the JVC ES1).  Peculiarly, the JVC F10 is rated to 6 ohms / 100 watts..no 4 ohm rating given in manual.  But, these 4 ohm Maggies are sounding awfully decent right now  

[TheChairGuy]

Just one more thing (Horizons)...

The volume goes to 50 on the JVC.  'Gentle' Classical FM listening (with Hall 2 DSP effect - yummy!) during the day in my office/listening room seems to settle around 18...speakers are about 6 feet away.

At night, with CD playback (my DAC doesn't seem to output excessively in past use without preamp in line) I settle in at about 22-24.  30 is too loud...but my room is 12 x 15 x 8 - 12' ceilings and the speakers are about 8' away.

If your room isn't huge, if your not sitting a football length away from your speakers, if you still have hearing intact....you should get more than enough volume from the JVC.  I don't know at what point the JVC turns rancid and ratty at high volumes, but up thru 32 I've tried and it is quite good in here.

[Horizons]

Here is one of the places that Richard talks about the Maggies driven with a JVC, though it might not be the right one...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=11998.msg107110#107110&highlight=#107110

Wow, thanks for the link. That review by Richard is simply incredible. I just wish he more specifically addressed the ability to drive the 4 ohm, power hungry Maggies. It appears that was not much of a problem.

I am buying one ASAP and will report back here. If the JVC were over $1K, I would need to research further but at $250 this is a no-brainer to try.

Thanks everyone.

[TheChairGuy]

Horizons,

Keep reading a few pages up for more -Richard- poetry about the JVC and Maggies.

His first post was at the 200 hour mark, us JVC-unatics all have found 300 hours is necessarily for the product to flesh out (whether ES1 or F10).  Out of nowhere comes your treble fullness at 300 hours...something you didn't realize was even missing at 200 hours.

The bloody F10 even uses non-ferrous screws...something Sony ES stuff does (for a lot more money, typically) - such detail for $300 list!  Heck, I don't know what this little receiver would sound like if it had only $100 more worth of JVC upgraded innards and an IEC. JVC has to be ditching their analog receivers soon enough for this technology.

[mcgsxr]

Horizons, if the unit does not work for you, give me a PM, I would likely take a shot at it.

Gives you one out anyway...

[TheChairGuy]

Well at about that halfway mark (this morning - 160 hours or so) with the F10 I had the same 'ah-ha' moment as with the ES1sl in July.

At low level when I walked in this morning, it just sounded warm and inviting in here, on FM.  I've noticed the last few days that it is finding it's groove, but today it struck me that it's running the same exact course of break-in as the ES1 did (then paired with Vandy 1c's).  I expected it, but I'm still kinda' surprised.

The Maggies are starting to 'melt' away from the music...as I've heard they do, or can do, with good amplification.  That this is happening with a mass market $300 list receiver is really quite strange (pleasing, tho   )

I do think JVC cut some corners on the FM on this over the previous generation.  I'm only 5-6 miles from downtown San Fran, across mostly water, and the stations should be coming in crystal clear.  What stations are coming in are very good, due to the good amplification, but it's simply not sensitive enough (lots of hiss). The answer is probably to hook up a good outdoor or indoor antenna...or add a outboard tuner thru one of the inputs.  I think the ES1 was just slightly better in FM performance...the specs published by JVC on the two are identical (yeah, whatever that means, right?)

It's a rather small failing for what is shaping up to be a very good match for very difficult-to-drive speakers.

The F10 still is not shown anywhere on JVC US' website under receivers....only their aud/vid and stereo analog receivers are.  The only place the F10 is shown/mentioned is with the home-theatre-in-a-box packages...where the F10 is teamed up with a multitude of speakers and sub combos.  Do the many talented engineers at JVC find that the new hybrid digital technology is not better than their traditional analog counterparts...that it's only place is HTIAB for mass merchants and the like?  Or, do they have such slow moving inventory on the analog receivers that they don't dare expose much more of this promising hybrid technology to the market.

I've not heard the more recent JVC SS (or other makers) offerings, but I've had, owned and heard Onkyo, Marantz, and Sansui gear and it never offered up this kind of muscular, polished presentation...let alone all the convenience features of remote, 6 channels,  DSP, etc.

It's a bit of a puzzle to me.....but I expect resolution and answers from JVC (in some form) in the next several months.  This technology is waaay too good/promising to stop at a $300 receiver.

[soundboy]

Coming to the party a little late ....

I've been considering adding a tuner to my system, which was based around a Cambridge Audio A500 stereo integrated amp and a Sony DVP-NS500V DVD/SACD player.  I've been reading the threads here regarding the JVC, Panasonic, and TEAC digital amps, and I was itching to pull the trigger on one of the receivers (I have also considered adding just the TEAC digital amp).  So today, during lunch, I walked over to the local electronics store and checked out the JVC.  I was shocked at how heavy it was, especially when compared to the Panasonic.  But the biggest shock was the price....$199.95!!  Of course, I whipped out my well-worn credit card   and asked if the JVC was in stock.  Nope, not in stock.  But if I paid now, they can order one from the warehouse and I can get it tomorrow.  So, I guess I am joining the digital amp club.  

[TheChairGuy]

soundboy,

Which JVC model and which electronics store?  I'm not aware of any of the big chains (Best Buy, Good Guys or Circuit City) carrying the digital hybrid receivers from JVC (they have it in Home Thetre combo's, however)

The RX-F10 drives more difficult speakers better....the differences after than depends on your setup.  They are mostly cut from the same cloth, otherwise.

Welcome...plenty to read here in the Digital and MultiChannel about these bargains.

[soundboy]

The ChairGuy,

I am sorry not to have included the model number....it was the RX-F10.  I purchased the F10 from "Video Only" (you would think the store would be dead silent).  Since you are in the Bay Area, there're a number of stores here.  There's one on Van Ness in San Francisco.

One reason I chose the F10 was that it can drive more difficult speakers....I have Energy C-3, which according to Soundstage.com's lab test, dips to 4 ohms much of the time even though it's a 8 ohm speaker.  Another reason is the clean analog stage of the F10.

[gongos]

Which JVC model and which electronics store?  I'm not aware of any of the big chains (Best Buy, Good Guys or Circuit City) carrying the digital hybrid receivers from JVC (they have it in Home Thetre combo's, however).

Where did you buy it? None of Best Buy, Good Guys, or Circuit City carries any of these low end digital receivers. Fry's only carries the Panny XR50, and when I went there-through a horrid Los Angeles driving experience-they were out of stock. I want to try one out with a 30 day return policy, but it seems like these receivers are more of a myth than reality. How it is possible none of these retailers of low end crappy product can not stock these low end diamonds in the rough is beyond me.

[soundboy]

gongos,

The name of the store is "Video Only".  They are sort of a chain-type audio/video store up here in Northern California.  I am not sure whether "Video Only" exist elsewhere.  BTW, by the time taxes are included, it was almost $215.00.  If you can get it at J&R for $250.00 shipped, that's probably a better deal considering the time and gas saved looking for it.

[TheChairGuy]

The ChairGuy,

I am sorry not to have included the model number....it was the RX-F10.  I purchased the F10 from "Video Only" (you would think the store would be dead silent).  Since you are in the Bay Area, there're a number of stores here.  There's one on Van Ness in San Francisco.

One reason I chose the F10 was that it can drive more difficult speakers....I have Energy C-3, which according to Soundstage.com's lab test, dips to 4 ohms much of the time even though it's a 8 ohm speaker.  Another reason is the clean analog stage of the F10.

Yes, I know Video Only - I pass them regularly on Van Ness in San Fran (I'm only about 12 miles from there). I wouldn't think anyone would've been cheaper than J & R on it...that's a helluva' deal

You're gonna find a lot of pleasure for $215.00.  It'll smoke your Cambridge,for sure.....after that point a lot will be subjective.  The F10 was def the better choice to drive 4 ohm'ers.

Talk to us in 2 weeks or so.....unless you have revelations beforehand  

I don't know if these guys ship, but it may be worth a call if someone out there wants a great deal on the F10, too....

Video Only
(415) 563-5200
1199 Van Ness Ave
San Francisco, CA 94109