New DHT Line Stage

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Kishore

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #20 on: 3 May 2016, 07:00 pm »
Vinne,

Would love to know how AVC+tubestage (which is what I have now  :thumb:   8)) compares to RVC+DHT pre?

Regards,
Kishore

zybar

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #21 on: 3 May 2016, 08:00 pm »
Vinne,

Would love to know how AVC+tubestage (which is what I have now  :thumb:   8)) compares to RVC+DHT pre?

Regards,
Kishore

I hope to do this comparison in the next few weeks.

Will post my thoughts once it happens.

George

jtwrace

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #22 on: 3 May 2016, 08:15 pm »

 :idea:   Do you sell this LPS separately?  Some people might want it as some claim any SMPS will inject hash back into their system.  While it doesn't matter if they use a fully decked out LIO and/or VR120 but some may use other amps or even source.  Just a thought!

Vinnie R.

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #23 on: 3 May 2016, 09:26 pm »
:idea:   Do you sell this LPS separately?  Some people might want it as some claim any SMPS will inject hash back into their system.  While it doesn't matter if they use a fully decked out LIO and/or VR120 but some may use other amps or even source.  Just a thought!

Hi jtwrace,

I do not sell it separately, but could offer a 24V only version (same enclosure, but with only one output) of this linear power supply.
I'll plan on that in the next month or so... thanks.

Quote
Would love to know how AVC+tubestage (which is what I have now  :thumb:   8)) compares to RVC+DHT pre?

Hi Kishore,

Nothing sounds like a DHT - especially in such a clean, minimalist linestage circuit as LIO DHT PRE (with NUDE RVC).  I think it is probably best for me to just wait of all the DHT PRE customers who are pre-ordering (many who are trading in AVC/Tubestage) to post their impressions / comparisons. 

Quote
I hope to do this comparison in the next few weeks.

Will post my thoughts once it happens.

Hi George,

We'll make something happen in the next week or two!  :thumb:

Thanks,

Vinnie

jtwrace

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #24 on: 3 May 2016, 09:43 pm »
Hi jtwrace,

I do not sell it separately, but could offer a 24V only version (same enclosure, but with only one output) of this linear power supply.
I'll plan on that in the next month or so... thanks.

Thanks,

Vinnie
Any idea of cost or is this a new addition that you need to figure out?  Maybe offer both so if someone does choose to go to DHT the PS is all done.   ;)

zybar

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #25 on: 3 May 2016, 10:06 pm »

Hi George,

We'll make something happen in the next week or two!  :thumb:

Thanks,

Vinnie

Excellent!!   :beer:

George

jriggy

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #26 on: 3 May 2016, 10:24 pm »
Hey Vinnie,

After reading Srajan's initial write up of the DHT Module on 6Moons, I am curious if you worked out the isolation/vibration control of the tube sockets and the board?
Did you end up using the Stillpoints interfaces?
Will there be improvements that could be made here?

Thanks
 Jason

mirekti

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 207
Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #27 on: 4 May 2016, 12:17 am »
Could you post some photos with the tube covers, please?
One other thing. If one goes with the DHT can one add the amp to LIO or one has to go with VR120?
If the latter is the case, can one eliminate the preamp section in VR120?

BobRex

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #28 on: 4 May 2016, 01:11 am »
Srajan,s write up is right on.  I haven't written up my impressions yet, but right now I'm not hearing everything I was able to with my Joule Electra / Moondog  (2A3 SET) combo.  Yeah, it's quieter, possibly more detailed (depends on the tube used - more on this later), and possible more linear, but something is missing.  This is the magic Vinnie is talking about.  I've been using 2A3s for 15 years, and maybe I had a serendipitous match, but in many aspects I had what was considered "Ultra-Fi".  The current LIO is close, so very close.  I'm hoping the DHT option is the last piece.

I'll be placing an order as soon as I get a few things figured out.

Vinnie R.

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #29 on: 4 May 2016, 02:19 am »
Srajan,s write up is right on.  I haven't written up my impressions yet, but right now I'm not hearing everything I was able to with my Joule Electra / Moondog  (2A3 SET) combo.  Yeah, it's quieter, possibly more detailed (depends on the tube used - more on this later), and possible more linear, but something is missing.  This is the magic Vinnie is talking about.  I've been using 2A3s for 15 years, and maybe I had a serendipitous match, but in many aspects I had what was considered "Ultra-Fi".  The current LIO is close, so very close.  I'm hoping the DHT option is the last piece.

I'll be placing an order as soon as I get a few things figured out.

Hi BobRex,

Once you get yourself hooked on a 2A3, 300B, 811, etc. sound - it's hard going back.  If you are into the voodoo that the DHTs do so well, you'll love LIO DHT PRE.  :inlove:

Quote
Could you post some photos with the tube covers, please?
One other thing. If one goes with the DHT can one add the amp to LIO or one has to go with VR120?
If the latter is the case, can one eliminate the preamp section in VR120?

Hi mirekti,

- I have no photos of the tube covers yet - I won't have the covers until the end of this month.  Think aluminum cylinder (closed top, closed walls) in aluminum ('silver') or black anodized finish to match the DHT PRE's top panel (or you can mix and match).  On the bottom of the covers are two small L-brackets (180 degrees from each other) that allow you to screw them down to the top panel via two small 4-40 screws per cover.  I don't use them, but I know for some, they want to cover the large tube's glass from pets and children, so the covers have their purpose (and I do find them needed to shield the 205D tubes from picking up hum because those tubes have high plate resistance and really need the shielding to be as close to hum-free as possible).

- As for your other question, see my 2nd post in this thread.  The short answer is "YES" you can configure a LIO with the DHT PRE linestage AND the LIO MOSFET AMP (as well as dac, phonostage, headphone amp) - making it an integrated amp, or "super integrated amp."  :)

- As for the VR120 power amp, you can feed the LIO's preamp outputs into a VR120 (preamp + power amp).  VR120 is great for
those who need more power, and you can even get more power out of VR120s by running two of them, each in bridged-mono mode!

Quote
After reading Srajan's initial write up of the DHT Module on 6Moons, I am curious if you worked out the isolation/vibration control of the tube sockets and the board?
Did you end up using the Stillpoints interfaces?
Will there be improvements that could be made here?

Hi jriggy,

The LIO DHT tube sockets (Yamamoto - solid teflon UX-4 type) are each mounted above the board via two brass standoffs.  Next to each tube socket is a slide switch (for setting filament voltage), which is part of the "SPVR" super-regulator daughter board mounted to a
heatsink (again, one per tube socket).  In between them (touching them both) is a dampening material called Herbie's dBNeutralizer.
So this absorbs lateral vibrations quite well.

Under the PCB (under the brass standoffs) is more damping material that absorbs vibrations that might have been transferred to LIO and sent up to this LIO DHT board and up to the tubes.

Each tube socket has point-to-point wiring to its 4-pins, and has a custom white cardboard tube that contains circuit elements and they are all set into an epoxy that damps them and damps the tube pins / socket even further.  Wires coming out of the epoxy connect to the PCB, which then get sent to the gold plated header pins that connect to LIO's backplane (motherboard).

I am not using Stillpoints.  But I am curious about a different set of feet for LIO - the Herbie's 'Tenderfoot' (Tendersoft).  If these make an improvement with LIO DHT PRE, I'll be sure to post about them.  And I've heard that the Herbie's Tube Dampers can be helpful.

Microphonics with LIO DHT is not going to be much of an issue.  If you tap away at the LIO, expect to hear it in the speakers (microphonics).  If you don't tap on it, there really are no issues there - so don't tap the LIO's enclosure, flick the tubes, or anything silly like that!   I've read posts on forums discussing DHT Preamps being so microphonic that simply clapping your hands in your listening chair can be heard through the speakers.  That is *definitely* not the case here!  It well under control, as is the noise.  I don't think any other DHT linestage has it all taken care of quite this well (just based on what I've read about others that have come before from users on various forums).  And sonically speaking, it should make a very bold statement.

Quote
Any idea of cost or is this a new addition that you need to figure out?  Maybe offer both so if someone does choose to go to DHT the PS is all done.   ;)

Hi jtwrace,

Not yet - I'll be looking into this more probably next month.  I have too much on my plate right now, but I don't see it being too expensive (Maybe around $395), which is for a 24V output version only (not the dual output version for LIO DHT PRE, which already
comes with LIO DHT PRE).

*****

INSTALLING YOUR LIO DHT PRE   :rules:

In a few weeks, I'll send out a PDF installation manual from LIO DHT PRE pre-order customers to read over.  I haven't even started it yet, but I'll get there!  Then you can decide if this job is something that you feel comfortable doing or not.  If it looks like something you rather not do, you can send your LIO to me and I'll install it free of charge to you (but you pay shipping both ways).  Sure - I rather install them in for everyone, but I know shipping to me might not be attractive and you might want to try installing yourself.  I'll try my best to support you with that, and if there are any issues you can always have it sent to me.

WHEN WILL MY LIO DHT PRE SHIP???  :cuss:

Ideally, I'll have the new top panels and tube covers by the end of this month.  The other parts should already be completed and tested by then.  But I'll be away at the Newport Beach Show June 2 - 6th, so they might not start to ship until right after the show.  This is probably a good thing because I'll be back to provide any tech support once you receive them.  :wink:

I have already received more pre-orders that I was expecting in the first day (thank you!  :notworthy:), and those customers are now
in the queue.  For those who order later in the pre-order period, they will naturally receive theirs later (throughout the month of June and possibly into July).  You guys know that I'm not a large scale operation by any means, but I work hard and will keep you informed.  And you can cancel your pre-order at any time for a full refund. 

More updates soon!

Vinnie

beowulf

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #30 on: 4 May 2016, 06:01 am »
Is a remote still available with the DHT PRE?

mirekti

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 207
Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #31 on: 4 May 2016, 06:30 am »
How long could one use the tubes in DHT before they need to be replaced? How long is it for AVC/Tubestage?

TomS

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #32 on: 4 May 2016, 12:15 pm »
Is a remote still available with the DHT PRE?
Remote is standard with the LIO

zybar

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #33 on: 4 May 2016, 12:51 pm »
How long could one use the tubes in DHT before they need to be replaced? How long is it for AVC/Tubestage?

In general, preamp tubes should last well north of 10,000 hrs as long as they aren't pushed in some weird way.

George

BobRex

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #34 on: 4 May 2016, 12:54 pm »
How long could one use the tubes in DHT before they need to be replaced? How long is it for AVC/Tubestage?

Knowing how long my 2A3s last as output tubes - where they are stressed harder than they would be in a line stage - I'm thinking you should get a few of years out of them.  In 15+ years I've gone through 3 sets of 2A3s (1 pair each of KRs, EML Mesh, and Shugang Treasures.)

Regarding the 6922s, I'd say close to the same lifetime.

jriggy

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #35 on: 4 May 2016, 02:41 pm »

Hi jriggy,

The LIO DHT tube sockets (Yamamoto - solid teflon UX-4 type) are each mounted above the board via two brass standoffs.  Next to each tube socket is a slide switch (for setting filament voltage), which is part of the "SPVR" super-regulator daughter board mounted to a
heatsink (again, one per tube socket).  In between them (touching them both) is a dampening material called Herbie's dBNeutralizer.
So this absorbs lateral vibrations quite well.

Under the PCB (under the brass standoffs) is more damping material that absorbs vibrations that might have been transferred to LIO and sent up to this LIO DHT board and up to the tubes.

Each tube socket has point-to-point wiring to its 4-pins, and has a custom white cardboard tube that contains circuit elements and they are all set into an epoxy that damps them and damps the tube pins / socket even further.  Wires coming out of the epoxy connect to the PCB, which then get sent to the gold plated header pins that connect to LIO's backplane (motherboard).

I am not using Stillpoints.  But I am curious about a different set of feet for LIO - the Herbie's 'Tenderfoot' (Tendersoft).  If these make an improvement with LIO DHT PRE, I'll be sure to post about them.  And I've heard that the Herbie's Tube Dampers can be helpful.

Microphonics with LIO DHT is not going to be much of an issue.  If you tap away at the LIO, expect to hear it in the speakers (microphonics).  If you don't tap on it, there really are no issues there - so don't tap the LIO's enclosure, flick the tubes, or anything silly like that!   I've read posts on forums discussing DHT Preamps being so microphonic that simply clapping your hands in your listening chair can be heard through the speakers.  That is *definitely* not the case here!  It well under control, as is the noise.  I don't think any other DHT linestage has it all taken care of quite this well (just based on what I've read about others that have come before from users on various forums).  And sonically speaking, it should make a very bold statement.


Vinnie

Wow, thanks for the great and informative response!  I think I must of been mistaken in my mentioning of Stillpoints as standoffs under the board.
I like hearing that you were/are experimenting with o-rings in various places for vibrations, too. Sounds like you are thinking of everything you can for potential microphonics.



jtwrace

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #36 on: 4 May 2016, 02:50 pm »
Is swapping the DHT in place of the AVC/Tube stage as easy as swapping other modules?  In theory could one have both setups and swap as their wants change? 

Vinnie R.

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #37 on: 4 May 2016, 03:43 pm »
Is a remote still available with the DHT PRE?

TomS is correct - every LIO (no matter the configuration) gets the remote control handset.

Quote from: mirekti
How long could one use the tubes in DHT before they need to be replaced? How long is it for AVC/Tubestage?

George and BobRex are correct - in the linestage (instead of being used to drive speakers), you should expect thousands of hours (years).  LIO DHT PRE will be very gentile on the tubes ("soft start", warm up, etc).  No need to bias tubes.  Just keep the pins clean
and enjoy them!

* It is important, however, to NOT select the incorrect filament voltage (e.g. If you select the 4V or 5V setting instead of the 2.5V setting for a 2A3, that is not good and will prematurely wear the filaments!).  So if you are doing tube rolling, follow the included instructions that will come with your LIO DHT PRE and double check the settings before turning ON your LIO.

Quote from: jtwrace
Is swapping the DHT in place of the AVC/Tube stage as easy as swapping other modules?  In theory could one have both setups and swap as their wants change? 

It's actually pretty straightforward once you see it and understand it:

- The DHT PRE takes the location of both the AVC/Tubestage module AND the HPA module (if you have one installed.  And if you do, you move the HPA onto the DHT PRE module as there is a location for it), and you need to install the included NUDE RVC (volume control) module with DHT PRE, and plug in the filament power pigtail to the board / swap top cover.

- When using AVC/Tubestage, you replace the DHT PRE with AVC/Tubestage and remove NUDE RVC and install the small LIO JUMPER board in its place (and the AVC is the volume control section of AVC/Tubestage).  LIO JUMPER bypasses the RVC.   

If you take your time and double-check what you're doing, it's pretty hard to make a mistake.  The module male headers only fit into place when they are aligned with the standoffs and it all just pushes down into place.  No soldering, no way of getting it to lock into place incorrectly.  I don't want to say "fool-proof" because you do need to be aware of what you are doing, but not too complicated if you follow the instructions and go step by step.  :wink:

If/when the time comes that you have questions about the installation instructions, please email me for support.

Vinnie

jtwrace

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #38 on: 4 May 2016, 03:53 pm »
Thank you for the thorough explanation.   :thumb:

SteveKi

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 113
Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #39 on: 9 May 2016, 02:15 pm »

- I have no photos of the tube covers yet - I won't have the covers until the end of this month.  Think aluminum cylinder (closed top, closed walls) in aluminum ('silver') or black anodized finish to match the DHT PRE's top panel (or you can mix and match).  On the bottom of the covers are two small L-brackets (180 degrees from each other) that allow you to screw them down to the top panel via two small 4-40 screws per cover.  I don't use them, but I know for some, they want to cover the large tube's glass from pets and children, so the covers have their purpose (and I do find them needed to shield the 205D tubes from picking up hum because those tubes have high plate resistance and really need the shielding to be as close to hum-free as possible).
Vinnie

Vinnie,
Will the tube covers be light tight? There are times that I listen in total darkness.
Steve