[FullRangeMan]

My 2 cents are: why spend $ on a sub? the prob is the Dayton speaker are too small, sell these speaker and buy a tube friendly +97dB with a 8'' woofer as Klipsch or similar.
A sub is a bad patch that will cause probs, the prob is the Dayton speakers, so remove the prob IMHO.

[restrav]

My 2 cents are: why spend $ on a sub? the prob is the Dayton speaker are too small, sell these speaker and buy a tube friendly +97dB with a 8'' woofer as Klipsch or similar.
A sub is a bad patch that will cause probs, the prob is the Dayton speakers, so remove the prob IMHO.

do you know how many pairs of speakers i have gone through and how much i love these? they sound seriously good to my ears. like better than many $3000 speakers that i have heard in the midrange (better than monitor audio gold series, german physics, canton, elac, dynaudio, KEF, and most of all freakin B&W garbage). thinking of going back to any of these makes me sick. i honestly dont see anyway to get this sound with less than three times the price. i havent been able to find any. i also have size constraints. a small sub in a corner is easier to deal with and it will also be powered.

[FullRangeMan]

Seems you cant use a small tube amp, if it was me I would use a Alnico fullrange as Omega or a Diy CommomSense Classic 6.5 Alnico ($499/pair) to keep a tube amp.

[Bob2]

do you know how many pairs of speakers i have gone through and how much i love these? they sound seriously good to my ears. like better than many $3000 speakers that i have heard in the midrange (better than monitor audio gold series, german physics, canton, elac, dynaudio, KEF, and most of all freakin B&W garbage). thinking of going back to any of these makes me sick. i honestly dont see anyway to get this sound with less than three times the price. i havent been able to find any. i also have size constraints. a small sub in a corner is easier to deal with and it will also be powered.

I did not see any info in this thread about the room you have the speakers and gear set up in ( my apologies if I missed that, this thread is getting long!) The room, as I'm sure you know plays such a big part that unless you are listening in a dedicated space that is acoustically treated, freedom to place gear in the best position then you are living with a compromise. All the effort to find the right amp may go to waste..

Are you in an apartment? Then sound quality is not something your neighbors are probably concerned with but volume will be. Will this be used in a living room? Think about what the better half considers best for gear placement. May not be optimal.. This is something many need to deal with. 

Dedicated space, treated correctly, speakers in the optimal position will show just how good a choice you make. I HIGHLY recommend this if possible. Not sure of your age but if you are young based on your avatar then work toward this in the future. I can guarantee this is will be the best solution.

You mention the heat output of tubes. Yes, can be a concern. Is your listening area temperature controlled? Will listening be disturbed by HVAC noise?

My point is compromise really is the key.
Unless you have a dedicated space where placement, acoustic treatment, volume that you listen at is not a compromise. How much effort is needed to choose equipment.

Cost of equipment does not have to be high. Good gear exists at reasonable prices and those reasonable prices change as you grow older and become established. 

By all means by the best gear you can and enjoy it no matter what. So many factors play into this you should ( in my opinion, for what it's worth) look at the overall picture as well as future plans.
Good luck with what you are doing! This hobby is a Journey. Enjoy it along the way and make the best of every day. Life is short. Live it and enjoy every minute!!

[twitch54]

Bob, by the look posted of the Op's system a few pages back it's obvious that he needs to address the amount of 'stuff' he has between his speakers. A definite soundstage issue. Pulling the speakers forward would help.

[restrav]

Seems you cant use a small tube amp, if it was me I would use a Alnico fullrange as Omega or a Diy CommomSense Classic 6.5 Alnico ($499/pair) to keep a tube amp.

I dont think you appreciate how special my speakers are:




real wood, not mdf, real leather, WBT connectors, only the  highest grade of components.









they are 6 by 7 inches. I have heard a few omega standmounts that are twice as big and this speaker sounds better in the midrange than them. just because the full range drivers are 50 dollars each dont discount them. its mostly in implementation not the specs. I think omegs's are great. its just that this is msaller, looks ten time better and at least sounds as good as any omega under 1000 bucks.

[restrav]

Bob, by the look posted of the Op's system a few pages back it's obvious that he needs to address the amount of 'stuff' he has between his speakers. A definite soundstage issue. Pulling the speakers forward would help.

Hi i do pull the speakers formward by 1 foot while listening. i mean when i feel like it and it definitely helps. but i do live in an apartment and have serious space constraints.

my wife and I are both students and we rent the apartment so i cant really have any acoustic treatment also.

[restrav]

I did not see any info in this thread about the room you have the speakers and gear set up in ( my apologies if I missed that, this thread is getting long!) The room, as I'm sure you know plays such a big part that unless you are listening in a dedicated space that is acoustically treated, freedom to place gear in the best position then you are living with a compromise. All the effort to find the right amp may go to waste..

Are you in an apartment? Then sound quality is not something your neighbors are probably concerned with but volume will be. Will this be used in a living room? Think about what the better half considers best for gear placement. May not be optimal.. This is something many need to deal with. 

Dedicated space, treated correctly, speakers in the optimal position will show just how good a choice you make. I HIGHLY recommend this if possible. Not sure of your age but if you are young based on your avatar then work toward this in the future. I can guarantee this is will be the best solution.

You mention the heat output of tubes. Yes, can be a concern. Is your listening area temperature controlled? Will listening be disturbed by HVAC noise?

My point is compromise really is the key.
Unless you have a dedicated space where placement, acoustic treatment, volume that you listen at is not a compromise. How much effort is needed to choose equipment.

Cost of equipment does not have to be high. Good gear exists at reasonable prices and those reasonable prices change as you grow older and become established. 

By all means by the best gear you can and enjoy it no matter what. So many factors play into this you should ( in my opinion, for what it's worth) look at the overall picture as well as future plans.
Good luck with what you are doing! This hobby is a Journey. Enjoy it along the way and make the best of every day. Life is short. Live it and enjoy every minute!!

the living room is 15 by 25 feet with a relatively high ceiling and it opens into the kitchen and also the starisway to the bedrooms upstairs. no acoustic treatment.

We dont listen too loud, as you can see by the speakers i have chosen my top three proiorities are purity of midrange, beauty of midrange, and more midrange. im a midrange guy. we have never had neighbors complain. we are very considerate to only play music in appropriate hours and even then it is never loud enouogh to be heard outside.

my music is everything really. I listen to acoustic, folk, singer sognwriter stuff like tom waits, leonard cohen, bob dylan, Chris rea, Teddy Thompson, 

also pink floyd, led zeppelin, jethro tull, camel, radiohead, portishead,

sometimes metal, tool, iron maiden, wasp (lol),

also i listen to John coltrane and the like.

so i really lsiten to everything. I dont need anything in the house to shake or vibrate but i do like the appropriate bass to be there. i mean i appreciate a good full range sound. right now with these there is really nothing below 70 and everything below 100hz is really shallow and anemic. My acoustic music sounds heavenly though.

[Bob2]

Those are some great looking speakers!
Amp at 50w will do a reasonable job. At 86db more would be better but an amp with more power could wait till you finish school.

I see you posted just before I finished this message...

Very nice setup and great to hear you are considerate of your neighbors! Great choices in music.
Looks to be a very useable setup.

Too bad you are so far away, I would be willing to let you give my Yaqin a try.

[FullRangeMan]

Sorry it was not my intention to belittle your speaker its very good, I mean say you would invest the sub $ in a tube amp or a FR speaker.

[rotarius]

im not sure about how i would go about adding a subwoofer with the musical paradise amp. right now i dont have a sub but im adding one soon. the yamaha has a sub out so its easy. but with 401 MKII and this is the back of my DAC:



how would i add a sub? there's no other line level outputs!!!

Just get a sub with speaker level inputs, no big deal.

[johnvin01]

If you are on the fence about the Yaqin take a look at the Dynakit amps. http://www.tubes4hifi.com/home.html

Build it yourself or have it built or buy used. If I can build them anyone can! They offer a triode mod if you really want that.
Might want to re-evaluate the budget though...............

Couldnt agree more. Its what I did. Very happy with my ST-70 and JM Focal Electra 936s

[restrav]

ok guys time to choose:

Musical paradise  MP401 MK2 KT150 single ended triode 24 watts $750 + $100 shipping from china


Yaqin MS-30L EL 34 push pull 45 watts in UL mode $600 + $100 shipping from Edmonton Canada


Yaqin is so much prettier but after Mr. FullRangeMan's endorsement my heart is with the MP I guess. no returns for both of them. i buy im stuck with it for a number of years

[FullRangeMan]

What responsability! Congratulations

[PDR]

I own a Yaqin MC-100b......I had it repaired once, then the magic smoke appeared again...for parts now.

I own a MP-401, its been my daily driver for about 4 yrs.....

Thats all I'll say about that.....


Edit:   Its the MP thats $600 USD that ships from Edmonton....

[Bob2]

" i buy im stuck with it for a number of years "

You are going to enjoy it!

My Yaqin has been trouble free but the MP should serve you well.
Keep us informed!

[restrav]

Thank you all. the topic was incredibly valuable in helping me choose.

Should be here by next friday.

[SteveFord]

So which did you choose?

[jimdgoulding]

Pull them out a minimum of 4', not 1', if possible.  If you listen to music recorded on location- classical music and "live" recordings, you'll appreciate what I'm sayin.  It'll change yer listening life, bro, especially with tubes.

[restrav]

So which did you choose?

Musical Paradise MP401 MK2 with both KT88 and KT150. i was really curious to see how they would defer. I bought the KT88 stock with the amp and KT150 separately from a US seller on ebay for 150 bucks for a pair Tungsol new.