[SteveRB]

Hey ya,

Just looking for some opinions. I'm planning a new record shelf for about 2,400 LPs. I am looking at ways of floating it on a wall without the self touching the floor...

The shelf will span about 10' of wood frame wall. I'll be using heavy duty fasteners.

My question is, can a normal (load bearing) residential wall hold 1200 lbs spread over 10'. Thats about 170lbs per stud.  Seems fine when I break it out like that...

[jazzcourier]

Just make sure you put the expensive records on the top so the less expensive records will cushion the blow when the whole thing collapses.

[mick wolfe]

Hey ya,

Just looking for some opinions. I'm planning a new record shelf for about 2,400 LPs. I am looking at ways of floating it on a wall without the self touching the floor...

The shelf will span about 10' of wood frame wall. I'll be using heavy duty fasteners.

My question is, can a normal (load bearing) residential wall hold 1200 lbs spread over 10'. Thats about 170lbs per stud.  Seems fine when I break it out like that...

I'd be very tempted to forget the "floating" design and use the floor to bear most of the weight.....especially if it's an interior wall constructed of 2 x 4's on 24" centers. And if it's a somewhat overbuilt load bearing wall,  it's got it's hands full already. Spread the weight out over a 10' span as you've already said and let the floor do the "heavy lifting" or I'm afraid "jazzcourier" might be correct.

[SteveRB]

Thanks for the input guys. But I'm hoping to come at this from a bit more of a numbered approach rather than anecdotal.

Here's what I found:

The conservative load rating for a Hem-Fir 2x4 stud is 405psi. At 16" OC the bearing weight of the wall is rated at 1590plf (pounds per linear foot). So, for a 10' span the wall can bear 15,900lbs. That said, this is actually a staggered stud partition wall, so the load is likely double that: well over 30,000lbs for myself and my neighbour. So total weight for the structure should not be an issue. When the shelf is on the floor directly next to the wall, the weight is primarily effecting the wall in the suite below me and very minority on the wall across the room.

But when I hang it on my wall, the weight is still mostly effecting the suite below me in downward force. However, there is now an outward force pulling on my wall. Carrying the weight on the floor only stops this perpendicular force. 95% of the load is still on the one wall below me.

Assuming a dead load of roughly 1,200lbs (LPs and shelf)... The centre of mass for the record shelf would be roughly 7" out from the studs centred about 4' up the wall. So that means roughly 15% of the load is outward force pulling perpendicular on the fasteners at the top and bottom of the studs. 15% of 1200lbs is only 180lbs. And that force is acting against the 30 nails that fasten the studs to the top and bottom plates.

When I break it down with those numbers, the project seems achievable. What I was hoping is that with all the smart guys on this site, perhaps someone has a history in structural engineering and can look over my shoulder...

[SteveRB]

The major force seems to be the shear force on the fasteners: the screws holding the shelf to the studs. I plan to have about 36 of them distributed across the entire surface of the shelf and a stringer under the shelf with another 15 screws. A #8 wood screw has a shear strength of roughly 400lbs. So all of that should be fine.

The only thing I have no idea on right now is seismic movement.

[dB Cooper]

Given the relative cost of a couple hours of a local architect's time to do a consultation, compared to potentially having to replace 2400 LP's and a wall, I'd find one. It'd be worth it for peace of mind. Especially if you live someplace where seismic movement needs to be considered.

[thunderbrick]

Given the relative cost of a couple hours of a local architect's time to do a consultation, compared to potentially having to replace 2400 LP's and a wall, I'd find one. It'd be worth it for peace of mind. Especially if you live someplace where seismic movement needs to be considered.

Sure you don't mean an engineer?   

Edit:  Have you considered steel cable or chain tied vertically to the ceiling joists?

[SteveRB]

Edit:  Have you considered steel cable or chain tied vertically to the ceiling joists?

Reasons for floating shelves:

1. There is a baseboard heater that is on this wall, which limits floor space. The heater is never on, so i'm not worried about baking the LPs.
2. I want it to look cool.

Not sure structural chains are consistent with design goal #2.   

[SteveRB]

Ok, here is a basic draft. Lets assume the shelf components are all glued and screwed. Each vertical section is it's own unit (so it can be moved easily and re-installed as a system).

There is a horizontal stringer, 1" thick picking up the weight at the bottom. All screws are installed with at least half their shaft in the stud. Washers are used. All screws in shelf are #8; all screws in the stringer are #12.

[SteveRB]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/02sj4odg5f4d6t7/Record%20Shelf%20160320%20v1.pdf?dl=0

link to full size pdf of drawing.

[jazzcourier]

Hoodoo ? Voodoo? Mass weight vs. calculated weight...This might be something to consider.I am not an engineer, but i only offer this in relation  to the weight of vinyl records.......
   When i went to move i boxed all the vinyl.It turned out to be roughly 70 lbs per box.These were a little larger than 50 count boxes.I  weighed random boxes and came up with an overall estimate of 70 lbs. per box.I had 125 boxes which should have been 8,750 lbs. When loaded the mass weight was well over 10,000 lbs,actually closer to 11,000  We sat around for a few minutes and scratched our heads and actually weighed random boxes.This was a game changer as we had to rent a different truck. I like your design for shelving, and storage space for records is a constant bugaboo,  i would,at this point,consult several contractors to see if this is actually a safe and feasible design. Me,i go out and buy cherry wood bookcases for a more library type look and this is an easy solution that serves the collection well.

[SteveRB]

Hoodoo ? Voodoo? Mass weight vs. calculated weight...This might be something to consider.I am not an engineer, but i only offer this in relation  to the weight of vinyl records.......
   When i went to move i boxed all the vinyl.It turned out to be roughly 70 lbs per box.These were a little larger than 50 count boxes.I  weighed random boxes and came up with an overall estimate of 70 lbs. per box.I had 125 boxes which should have been 8,750 lbs. When loaded the mass weight was well over 10,000 lbs,actually closer to 11,000  We sat around for a few minutes and scratched our heads and actually weighed random boxes.This was a game changer as we had to rent a different truck. I like your design for shelving, and storage space for records is a constant bugaboo,  i would,at this point,consult several contractors to see if this is actually a safe and feasible design. Me,i go out and buy cherry wood bookcases for a more library type look and this is an easy solution that serves the collection well.

how do 50 records in a box weigh 70 lbs.?

Mass and weight are the same thing on earth. Mass is a constant; where as, weight changes when a force is applied (gravity). An object's mass is the same where ever it is, but on the moon the weight would be less because the gravitational pull is less...

I have experience in construction. This is certainly feasible. But 'safe' is a relative term: engineers can be liable for generations they often take the extreme worse case scenario and multiply it by three for minimum standards. I would hazard a guess that any residential home with 10,000 lbs. of records in a room would not pass their standards...

[jawaka]

If the radiator is never on, why not get rid of it?
Or place it somewhere else?
Problem solved! 

[SteveRB]

If the radiator is never on, why not get rid of it?
Or place it somewhere else?
Problem solved! 

I know, right...

But that is the end where the pipe comes in... The strata here won't let me move the feed line...

[SteveRB]

My only real concern is will the weight ON the wall cause the studs to pull out at the top. I think my calculation above of 15% of the toal load, may be closer to 2%... which means i'm fine.

I actually just spoke to a contractor who used to build apartments like this for this developer. He said as long as the screws are sized to hold the shelf to the studs, the studs aren't going anywhere.

[thunderbrick]

He said as long as the screws are sized to hold the shelf to the studs, the studs aren't going anywhere.

That only applies to holding the shelves to the studs.  If the screws AREN'T size the studs they will remain intact, but you'll be picking up a lot of records...

[SteveRB]

That only applies to holding the shelves to the studs.  If the screws AREN'T size the studs they will remain intact, but you'll be picking up a lot of records...

Yeah, but that's the easy part.

[SteveRB]

[ArthurDent]

Steve, you might check here for seismic considerations in your locale,  http://earthquake.usgs.gov/hazards/designmaps/usdesign.php .

[FullRangeMan]