The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread

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Ric Schultz

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #540 on: 4 Dec 2018, 12:47 am »
Yeah, I am not  fan of the Jantzen inductors. I know for fact that they are made in China with recycled Copper and are only 94 to 96% Copper. The rest is just trash. My experience with them is a muddy sound. The Erse inductors sound much cleaner. And if you want a good foil inductor the Alpha Core or Erse foil inductors are very nice.

I was recommending this kit to someone and re read some of this thread.  Interesting that Jantzen had their copper tested after these remarks and indeed they tested exactly as they say.....99.9% copper.  At the end of the following link you see the results of this test.  By the way, I do not agree with their stance that OFC copper is not better than pitch copper for audio use.  However, their copper does measure what they state.....as to the sound.....well, so far everyone is happy.

http://www.jantzen-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Information-on-copper-wire-and-copper-foil.pdf

Ric Schultz

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #541 on: 4 Dec 2018, 01:12 am »
JIC anyone might be interested, my Super-7s...
 https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141060.180
...are surplus and will be for sale, but they're not quite available right now, as one bass amp hums.  Jeff Glowacki said that's easily fixable--his, too, hummed--so I'll be sending both amps back the week of Dec. 05.
After the hum from the bass amp grated on me long enough, I found an affordable pair of Quad 2905s, having had and loved their predecessors, the ESL989.  I also bought PS Audio BHK300 monoamps, and I'm thrilled with the system's transparency and overall sounds.  I have no shipping coffins so can't ship them, but I will transport them some distance.  Virtually all crossover parts have been replaced, and excellent AQ speakercable is captive.

(Pls pardon the dust; they've been standing around for most of a year.)

If you're at all interested at $8K plus shipping or simply want more pics, e-mail me at jeffreybehr(at)cox(dot)net.

I am sure the Quads are great.....however, you never really heard what the Super 7 can do.  If the picture represents the last incarnation of your xover....then you are not getting at all what can be gotten.  You need a 12 gauge foil coil on the midrange and the other coils must be foil coils as well.....way more info and transparency.  Then all the caps can be upgraded to better ones.....and the speaker wire is just 16 gauge OFC solid core wire.  No way 16 gauge wire can pass great high frequencies.  You need to rewire all the drivers.  The xover will suck hardmounted to the bass module.  Just unscrew it and put a piece or two of cardboard underneath......probably blow you mind.  You can also damp the midrange drivers with small pieces of constrained layer damping material.......I did this to my single Neo 10 and it improved the sound.  Now, even with all the mods in the world and better parts....it still might not be to you liking....but no way would I listen to those wonderful drivers implemented the way you have them.  Every single thing you do affects the sonics.  Unless everything is done all out....you are missing the magic.  Implemented with great xover parts, wire and tweaking these drivers are amazing.  Also, I would have both woofers facing forward, as well.  I bet it would sound better......someone....please try this in your Super 7.

If I were to make this speaker I would mount the 2 or 3 servo woofs on their own open baffle and sit them next to the panels and have the voice coils all aligned.  Yes, I know it would not play as loud.....however, Spatial is selling a $25K speaker with just two of these 12 inch servos on an open baffle and at the show they played them dang loud.  I would make a separate stand for the mids/highs and have the passive xover on another stand so it would not vibrate with anything.....but, what the heck, I am a perfectionist.  I want musicians in the room!

Example of what I describe is here:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=icm8ojuu9fpe4n6k814jpbektdcpnkv5&topic=142235.0


Danny Richie

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #542 on: 4 Dec 2018, 01:15 am »
I was recommending this kit to someone and re read some of this thread.  Interesting that Jantzen had their copper tested after these remarks and indeed they tested exactly as they say.....99.9% copper.  At the end of the following link you see the results of this test.  By the way, I do not agree with their stance that OFC copper is not better than pitch copper for audio use.  However, their copper does measure what they state.....as to the sound.....well, so far everyone is happy.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=142235.0

I have customers that have gotten mixed results from batch to batch. I have copies of some e-mail exchanges with Jantzen that did not instill a lot of confidence to me on this. And it is Copper from China. But there are also customers that are very happy with the results.

jeffreybehr

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #543 on: 4 Dec 2018, 06:36 am »
I am sure the Quads are great.....however, you never really heard what the Super 7 can do.  If the picture represents the last incarnation of your xover....then you are not getting at all what can be gotten.  You need a 12 gauge foil coil on the midrange and the other coils must be foil coils as well.....way more info and transparency.  Then all the caps can be upgraded to better ones.....and the speaker wire is just 16 gauge OFC solid core wire.  No way 16 gauge wire can pass great high frequencies.  You need to rewire all the drivers.  The xover will suck hardmounted to the bass module.  Just unscrew it and put a piece or two of cardboard underneath......probably blow you mind.  You can also damp the midrange drivers with small pieces of constrained layer damping material.......I did this to my single Neo 10 and it improved the sound.  Now, even with all the mods in the world and better parts....it still might not be to you liking....but no way would I listen to those wonderful drivers implemented the way you have them.  Every single thing you do affects the sonics.  Unless everything is done all out....you are missing the magic.  Implemented with great xover parts, wire and tweaking these drivers are amazing.  Also, I would have both woofers facing forward, as well.  I bet it would sound better......someone....please try this in your Super 7.

If I were to make this speaker I would mount the 2 or 3 servo woofs on their own open baffle and sit them next to the panels and have the voice coils all aligned.  Yes, I know it would not play as loud.....however, Spatial is selling a $25K speaker with just two of these 12 inch servos on an open baffle and at the show they played them dang loud.  I would make a separate stand for the mids/highs and have the passive xover on another stand so it would not vibrate with anything.....but, what the heck, I am a perfectionist.  I want musicians in the room!

...


Thx Ric.  The x-over is a work in process; I simply quit on it when the bass-amp hum wore me out.  The caps are SoniCap 'propylenes bypassed with LARGE SoniCap Platinums.

And those musicians came along with the Quad 2905s and PSAudio BKH300s.   :D

mlundy57

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #544 on: 4 Dec 2018, 03:46 pm »
FWIW, Sonicaps are film caps, not polypropylenes

Ric Schultz

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #545 on: 4 Dec 2018, 11:51 pm »
From what I remember the Sonicaps are metalized Polypropylene film caps.......so, yes, they are polyprops.  All polyprops are film caps....some metalized, some pure film and foil.

mlundy57

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #546 on: 5 Dec 2018, 12:13 am »
I think I might have been confusing polypropolyene with electrolytics.

Tyson

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #547 on: 5 Dec 2018, 12:59 am »
Thx Ric.  The x-over is a work in process; I simply quit on it when the bass-amp hum wore me out.  The caps are SoniCap 'propylenes bypassed with LARGE SoniCap Platinums.

And those musicians came along with the Quad 2905s and PSAudio BKH300s.   :D

I know what you mean re: noise.  For me it wasn't the sub amps, it was the darn 97db efficient mid/tweet.  ANY bit of noise in my upstream equipment was ruthlessly exposed.  Plagued me till I did 2 things.  First, got a PS Audio P10 and plugged everything into it.  2nd, figured out that I simply had too much gain between my preamp and my amp.  Kept my high gain preamp, but bought a low gain main amp and ah, silence!!! 

If you do get the sub hum tamed, I highly recommend trying some Jupiter copper caps in the bypass positions on your crossovers.  I went 100% Jupiters in my crossover, but IMO it wasn't worth the $$.  You can get 90% there with just putting them in the bypass position. 

Over time, noise can drive you bonkers. 

danvprod

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #548 on: 5 Dec 2018, 01:07 am »
I had the same problem with my Super Vs re: Noise. Fixed it with a P.I. Audio Buss, TWL power cables, rewiring my mains outlet, removing the 300B amps I had in my system and replacing them with a Neurochrome (Mod-86) amp and being very careful about wire routing. My A370 amps still hum, but its transformer hum (not coming through the speakers). I can hear it *just barely* from my PLP, but as soon as the music starts, it gets masked.

I've worked hard to make my room as quiet as possible this past year, which is a double-edged sword. I had an older MacPro tower in there, which was the primary noise source. That got replaced with a silent mac mini. All of my spinning drives were replaced with SSDs as well. I've done a lot with acoustic treatment both outside my room (I'm in a finished attack and was able to wrap my space in Prodex and further insulate the walls and ceiling. So all this is well and good, but you start exposing other noise sources as you get to that last 5% or so.

After all that work was done, the next loudest noise source was actually my NEC monitor connected to my Mac Mini. That was replaced with a much quieter ViewSonic monitor early this year. Now what's left is the slight hiss that comes through the P-Audio co-axial drivers and the transformer hum from A370 amps. I haven't done a background noise measurement in a few months, but I should repeat that. I've experimented with isolation transformers between the A370s and the output of my PS Audio DAC. They seem to help with the overtones of mains noise that are coming through the 12" subs -- 60/120/180/240 Hz.

But you can end up driving yourself crazy trying to chase all this stuff done, and as I said, as soon as the music starts playing, it is all masked. But that is much of the fun of this hobby, isn't it? 
« Last Edit: 5 Dec 2018, 02:26 pm by danvprod »

Tyson

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #549 on: 5 Dec 2018, 01:10 am »
I had the same problem with my Super Vs re: Noise. Fixed it with a P.I. Audio Buss, TWL power cables, rewiring my mains outlet, removing the 300B amps I had in my system and replacing them with Neurochrome amp and being very careful about wire routing. My A370 amps still hum, but its transformer hum not coming through the speakers. I can hear it *just barely* from my PLP, but as soon as the music starts, it gets masked.

Nice.  For me I had to do a P10 because I found my voltage at the wall was consistently 125 to 126 steady state, and who knows how much it went up to with microsurges.  I do know that before the P10 my system was chewing through audio tubes at an alarming rate, so I got it because it lets me re-set the voltage output to a nice easy 118 that my tube equipment loves.  Haven't had a tube go bad in the last 6 months, that's pretty much a record for me....

orientalexpress

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #550 on: 5 Dec 2018, 03:26 pm »
Thx Ric.  The x-over is a work in process; I simply quit on it when the bass-amp hum wore me out.  The caps are SoniCap 'propylenes bypassed with LARGE SoniCap Platinums.

And those musicians came along with the Quad 2905s and PSAudio BKH300s.   :D
I have Quad 57 and Quad 63 ,I love them even more GR open baffle bass . :o

Captainhemo

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #551 on: 5 Dec 2018, 04:15 pm »
  Haven't had a tube go bad in the last 6 months, that's pretty much a record for me....

Nor have I :P    ( sorry man, couldn't  resist   :lol:  )

jay

jeffreybehr

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #552 on: 11 Dec 2018, 05:31 am »
Probably I'll soon be returning my S7s to my main system, replacing at least temporarily the Quads.  The bass amps are at Sonic Craft being recapped.  Until they return, I'll be using my 15" Rythmik SWs that are driven by the stereo signals as woofers.  My goal is to listen to the MR and treble to see how relatively good it is.

My problem is that I have two fine speaker systems--Quad 2905s and Serenity S7s--and two pairs of monoamps--BHK300s and Atma-Sphere M-60s--and I don't yet know which pairs to keep and which to sell.

We'll see.   :)
« Last Edit: 14 Dec 2018, 07:29 pm by jeffreybehr »