[jsaliga]

Your friend doesn't understand what an audiophile is. Everyone has a passion for music to some extent, but not everyone is an audiophile. In fact, most musicians aren't audiophiles. So the amount of time spent listening to music has nothing to do with being an audiophile. It's quality, not quantity.

I think it is far more likely that you don't know what an audiophile is.  You're welcome to take another crack at it if you like but so far you're 0 for 1.

It seems to me that you think it is exclusive to high-end audio.  If so you're wrong.

I actually prefer the dictionary definition: A person who is interested in high fidelity sound reproduction.

It is very inclusive term and says nothing about money, budgets, cables, etc. etc.

--Jerome

[werd]

I think it is far more likely that you don't know what an audiophile is.

--Jerome

I think it is more likely he does.  You can have a passion for music and only attend concerts. A music system is not needed.  An indicator is some body who attaches more value to their playback. They tend to assign what motivates their musical passion to their HIFi. Some people find their passion with loud playback. Hence they will find value by spending thousands on Bryston amps.  What is yours? I still  not have figured it out. I just know from your posts that it can be done cheaply. Mostly because you are an EE.

[jsaliga]

You again?  I thought by now you would have had enough and run back to the Bryston Circle with your tail between your legs.

But since you are starting to make some small progress in the tone of your posts (don't give yourself too much credit yet), I'll indulge you.  If you continue to show progress with the quality of your posts then I will drop the snarky attitude and treat you respectfully like a real person.  This could potentially be an interesting discussion and I honestly think you could contribute something positive to it if you choose to do so.

See my previous post.  E.g. An audiophile is a person interested in high fidelity sound.

We can argue until the cows come home about what high fidelity sound actually means, but it certainly doesn't mean the same thing to everyone.  And the more the big spenders try to make it exclusive to people with a lot of money to spend on their hobby, and that is the only differentiator in their view, the more it marks them as audio snobs, not audiophiles.

--Jerome

[jsaliga]

Great story Jerome!

Thanks Evan,

He was a real salt of the Earth kind of fellow.  And very generous.  He would on occasion give away some rather nice pieces.  I remember once talking about some headphones in a discussion on the forum.  They had been discontinued and hard to get, and I had long want to try them but never did.  And because they were discontinued people were selling them for as much as $3,000 used.  They were power hungry and needed to be run from a speaker amp.  Out of nowhere a PM pops up in my message inbox.  He offers to send me a pair of the headphones and says they are mine to keep, and all he asked of me was to pay the shipping cost and not mention on the forums that they came from him.  At the time I didn't really know him that well and thought it was just someone playing games with me.  But it was a genuine offer.  I sent him the shipping cost and three days later the phones showed up at my door via FedEx.  They were his backup pair, brand new in the box and never used.  I bought a new Melody 2A3 tube amp to use with them.  I knew someone else that he gifted a used Benz Ebony MC cartridge that had about 150 hours on it.  He could have probably sold it for $3,000.

I have tried to pay it forward a few times, but nowhere near on the scale that he did.  But I have given away a number of Classic Records 200g audiophile LPs and a couple of Music Matters 45RPM 180g vinyl sets.

--Jerome

[werd]

Ok

Here is the problem I have with your assesmemt of your own gear. I have no problem with any source gear you have. I just don't think you understand how the phono stage is affecting your opinion of the TTs. Everything heard is the source amplified. Your phono stage I consider part of the source gear.  What you are doing is cycling through TTs using the same phono. What will happen, all the TTs will just end up sounding like some version of what the phono stage is doing . Your phono stage is playing boss to the sound.  It is akin to those that claim all amplifiers sound the same. This is from cycling through different amplifiers using the same source. Amplifiers amplify the source only. You hear the source gear. So if you use the same source every amplifier is going to sound like a different version of the source gear.  This is not helpful if the source is some cheap $100 CD player. All amps will sound like garbage....

You right off the bat dismissed some real helpful critism from posters. You blockaded any attempt by pounding your EE chest and dismissing any critism because of your experience. Or the inconvenience of answering to very real problem of why these TTs sound the same.  You do not deserve the respect you are asking for. You will not get it from me or anyone that understands real system building.

[Early B.]

I actually prefer the dictionary definition: A person who is interested in high fidelity sound reproduction.

It is very inclusive term and says nothing about money, budgets, cables, etc. etc.

"High fidelity sound reproduction" implies high end components. One is far less likely to achieve high fidelity from "low-fi" or "mid-fi" gear. Of course, we can argue all day over what constitutes "hi-fi" vs. "low-fi" components, but we can use your own experiences as an example of the shortcomings of mixing cheap gear with the good stuff.   

[jsaliga]

"High fidelity sound reproduction" implies high end components.

By whose estimation?  Yours?  Please cite a credible authority for this (and by that I do not mean someone in the audio press or an equipment manufacturer).

--Jerome

[jsaliga]

Ok

Here is the problem I have with your assesmemt of your own gear. I have no problem with any source gear you have. I just don't think you understand how the phono stage is affecting your opinion of the TTs. Everything heard is the source amplified. Your phono stage I consider part of the source gear.  What you are doing is cycling through TTs using the same phono. What will happen, all the TTs will just end up sounding like some version of what the phono stage is doing . Your phono stage is playing boss to the sound.  It is akin to those that claim all amplifiers sound the same. This is from cycling through different amplifiers using the same source. Amplifiers amplify the source only. You hear the source gear. So if you use the same source every amplifier is going to sound like a different version of the source gear.  This is not helpful if the source is some cheap $100 CD player. All amps will sound like garbage....

You right off the bat dismissed some real helpful critism from posters. You blockaded any attempt by pounding your EE chest and dismissing any critism because of your experience. Or the inconvenience of answering to very real problem of why these TTs sound the same.  You do not deserve the respect you are asking for. You will not get it from me or anyone that understands real system building.

And you were doing so well up until the last paragraph and then reverted to your old self,  I guess old habits die hard. 

Please, by all means feel free to share your expertise and experience with these two turntables.  Tell us how much time you spent with them?  What cartridges did you use with them?  What source content did you play on them?  But before you do that please go back and read the entire opening post of this thread, and I mean all of it line for line.  You still maintain that I said the two tables sound the same when I most certainly did not.  So you are hanging your hat on a complete falsehood.

You didn't seem to benefit much from the review of what I actually said, posted on the prior page.  Either that or you just blew it off completely because it didn't paint your participation in this thread so far in a very flattering light.  If you want to get your facts straight and try again then that might get a serious response from me.  Until then this is just more of the same.

--Jerome

[werd]

So we are clear, I do not think your IfI phono is garbage. I am considering it myself for a budget Vinyl setup. If anything you have inadvertently told me there is a ceiling to The TT quality before everything starts sounding similar. 

[Early B.]

By whose estimation?  Yours?  Please cite a credible authority for this (and by that I do not mean someone in the audio press or an equipment manufacturer).

You're the credible authority. Anyone who would spend several thousand bucks on a "high end" TT is a true audiophile!

[jsaliga]

You're the credible authority. Anyone who would spend several thousand bucks on a "high end" TT is a true audiophile!

 

Ok, I read that and almost spit out some of my beer.

--Jerome

[S Clark]

Well Jerome, it's true, for some of us you do have vinyl credibility.  Over the years, you garner enough info to get a feel for who has real experience and who's blowing smoke. 

[eclubow]

Jerome- you're obviously an intelligent and articulate fellow. Isn't it obvious by now, this discussion is going nowhere? No matter what you say, no matter how beautifully reasoned and articulated, it will never be enough to convince the doubters here, some who seem to enjoy dropping little verbal bombs to incite and annoy. Why bother? I'll be damned if I'd let them cause me even a seconds unrest.

[Early B.]

Ok, I read that and almost spit out some of my beer.

--Jerome

Ah, so it's the beer!!!  That explains all of your drunk-infested posts. 

[jsaliga]

Jerome- you're obviously an intelligent and articulate fellow. Isn't it obvious by now, this discussion is going nowhere? No matter what you say, no matter how beautifully reasoned and articulated, it will never be enough to convince the doubters here, some who seem to enjoy dropping little verbal bombs to incite and annoy. Why bother? I'll be damned if I'd let them cause me even a seconds unrest.

It pays to have a sense of humor, maintain your perspective, and not take things too seriously.  I think the discussion has mostly been fine.  Yes, some folks have decided that making a lot of noise somehow improves the validity of their position.  And a few others have made feeble attempts to discredit me.  For the most part it's all been good.  I'm a big boy and can take care of myself.

If I can offer you any advice it would be not to get discouraged.  Keep the faith.  I know you have been getting beat up a lot in another thread over Rega turntables.  Don't let Wayner and neo get to you.  They are great guys with a lot of experience and I have gobs of respect for them both -- but let me tell you that I disagree with them as often as I agree with them.  And I disagree with them both about Rega turntables.  So there is at least someone on your side with "vinyl" credibility (whatever that is.  )

Spin some records and enjoy the tunes -- that's what it's all about.  Try not to concern yourself so much with what someone else thinks of your approach to vinyl.

--Jerome

[werd]

Ah, so it's the beer!!!  That explains all of your drunk-infested posts. 

Never thought it might be the alcohol... Explains how someone can lead themselves down a path of buying two TTs. Different caliber TTs in build quality. Then be completely perplexed by the performance differences while using the same budget phono stage. Then have a few more sips and end up on here...

I want some of that... And I mean the alcohol. Sounds like fun   

[eclubow]

It pays to have a sense of humor, maintain your perspective, and not take things too seriously.  I think the discussion has mostly been fine.  Yes, some folks have decided that making a lot of noise somehow improves the validity of their position.  And a few others have made feeble attempts to discredit me.  For the most part it's all been good.  I'm a big boy and can take care of myself.

If I can offer you any advice it would be not to get discouraged.  Keep the faith.  I know you have been getting beat up a lot in another thread over Rega turntables.  Don't let Wayner and neo get to you.  They are great guys with a lot of experience and I have gobs of respect for them both -- but let me tell you that I disagree with them as often as I agree with them.  And I disagree with them both about Rega turntables.  So there is at least someone on your side with "vinyl" credibility (whatever that is.  )

Spin some records and enjoy the tunes -- that's what it's all about.  Try not to concern yourself so much with what someone else thinks of your approach to vinyl.

--Jerome

I'm not discouraged at all.  And I don't feel beat up. I'm old enough not to let these thing bother me. And I'm glad you're not taking it too seriously. I do think there's a point though,where nothing really gets resolved or illuminated , where people keep saying the same things over and over, trying to convince one another of the "rightness" of their points of view. For me I think that point has come in this particular post.

[dmckean]

Ah, so it's the beer!!!  That explains all of your drunk-infested posts. 

I'm looking forward to his next thread comparing the path of beer and XO Cognac.

[G Georgopoulos]

for me it's scotch that makes me articulate 

[werd]

Thought I would love Cognac until I tried it.  I can't drink Scotch... Well I can and that's the problem...