[Randy]

I have a couple of thousand records I'd dearly love to get rid of, but there are so many I just don't want to give away, and there's no way would I ever go back to playing records. I bought a VPI Scout a few years back but eventually couldn't see tying up that much money in a tt I only occasionally used. I felt lucky to find a buyer in Denver I could drive down to and deliver in person and recoup most of my investment in it.

[thunderbrick]

Craigslist?

What genres?

Pass out notices at RMAF?

[barrows]

1.  Without detailed system context most of this discussion is meaningless.

2.  To those who think vinyl playback is superior to digital, I suggest the following experiment: record a needle drop from your system playing a favorite record using a really good A/D like the Ayre at 24/192.  Then A/B that recording vs. the vinyl playback through a good DAC (make sure you are level matched by measuring).  This experiment is eye opening, and convinced me that anyone who prefers vinyl playback, prefers it because of its shortcomings and colorations, and not because it is more accurate in any any way.

I am not suggesting that there is anything wrong with liking vinyl, but I do think the supposition believed by some that vinyl is "superior" to digital is in error.

[Freo-1]

I didn't expect that you would.  If you did then you be firmly on the vinyl side of the debate.    Hell, it would mean that you agree with me.  We can't have that!!

Different strokes for different folks.

Sometimes I think threads like this need a warning sign for people who enter and post.  Something like this:
;
WARNING: For Entertainment Use Only.  Nothing said in this topic should be taken seriously by anyone brave enough to enter.  Or perhaps: Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Enter Here.

It just helps a lot not to take anything said in a thread like this too seriously.

--Jerome

 I actually agree with a lot of what you have posted.  Well stated, reasoned positions.  We just have a difference of "opinion" about classical playback.  Not really worth getting worked up about.   


I actually came aboard the digital bandwagon 20 some odd years after it's release.  Up until then, vinyl sounded better the vast majority of the time.  A number of factors shifted my opinion:

1) Obtained better digital playback equipment.  Gear such as Modwright Oppo, along with a Wavelength Audio COSINE NOS DAC (both with tube buffers) leveled the playing field quite a bit.

2) Better amp/preamp gear was finally within reach.

3) Discovering ATC speakers with Super Liner Drivers.

4) Learning more about how recordings were made and mastered.  The inner engineer/geek comes out to better understand the differences one hears when playing back music.

I do attend live events (mostly classical or jazz), and find that the better digital recordings sound pretty close to the event. 

OTOH, when one wants to go back, listening to old rockabilly, surf music, etc. has a certain groove factor when listening to tubes/vinyl, no question. 

Lastly, totally agree that threads like this should not be taken seriously. 

[G Georgopoulos]

freo, a cd boom box sounds better than vinyl because of the dynamic range,but in all other regards is it better??...the naturality of tone only vinyl can reproduce accurately.

Some others posters mentioned listening fatigue with digital,i guess this is the downside of dynamic range..

[Freo-1]

freo, a cd boom box sounds better than vinyl because of the dynamic range,but in all other regards is it better??...the naturality of tone only vinyl can reproduce accurately.

Some others posters mentioned listening fatigue with digital,i guess this is the downside of dynamic range..

Check out what Bob Ludwig has to say....

http://www.laweekly.com/music/why-cds-may-actually-sound-better-than-vinyl-5352162


I still like vinyl for some types of music. 

[*Scotty*]

A factor determining whether or not vinyl is the preferred medium for a particular recording or genre maybe found on the dynamic range database. http://dr.loudness-war.info/
 In almost every case when a CD recording of music other than classical is reissued/remastered it is usually vandalized by the application of additional compression, which basically nullifies any potential gain from a higher bitrate or higher sample rate that may used in remastering. On the other hand the vinyl record at least has the all of dynamic range of the original release.
Scotty

[STEREOmole]

A factor determining whether or not vinyl is the preferred medium for a particular recording or genre maybe found on the dynamic range database. http://dr.loudness-war.info/
 In almost every case when a CD recording of music other than classical is reissued/remastered it is usually vandalized by the application of additional compression, which basically nullifies any potential gain from a higher bitrate or higher sample rate that may used in remastering. On the other hand the vinyl record at least has the all of dynamic range of the original release.
Scotty

Not completely true. 
Yes, new CDs are for the most part butchered in the mastering with brickwall limiting...and are WAY too loud with the dynamics crushed.

Vinyl, on the other hand, can still suffer from over-compression in the mastering process, and never has the full dynamic range of an uncompressed digital source.  There are also issues with bass (having to cut or pan to mono to prevent the needle popping out of the groove), surface noise, etc.  Sometimes the vinyl release sounds better because it's not hard limited in the mastering, but not always.

[rollo]

  A good recording is a good recording. Either CD or LP. There is no perfected medium yet. Close but still no cigar. Whatever format gives one the most emotional impact is the right one.
   No rules for music reproduction, no one size fits all as it is so subjective to the individual the point is moot.


charles

[thunderbrick]

  A good recording is a good recording. Either CD or LP. There is no perfected medium yet. Close but still no cigar. Whatever format gives one the most emotional impact is the right one.
   No rules for music reproduction, no one size fits all as it is so subjective to the individual the point is moot.


charles

+1!

Now, can we just call it a day and stop beating this thread to death.     

[ACHiPo]

+1!

Now, can we just call it a day and stop beating this thread to death.     

[GentleBender]

This is a zombie thread! Every time I think it is finally dead, boom another post.

[Guy 13]

  A good recording is a good recording. Either CD or LP. There is no perfected medium yet. Close but still no cigar. Whatever format gives one the most emotional impact is the right one.
   No rules for music reproduction, no one size fits all as it is so subjective to the individual the point is moot.


charles

 
Thanks, very well said !

Guy 13

[geowak]

This is a zombie thread! Every time I think it is finally dead, boom another post.

That Zombie post is funny. But I am adding a vinyl rig to my system to see how I will like it some 35+ years later.

[orientalexpress]

Check out what Bob Ludwig has to say....

http://www.laweekly.com/music/why-cds-may-actually-sound-better-than-vinyl-5352162


I still like vinyl for some types of music.

it's funny he's mention that,if u have Rush moving picture on Vinyl and listening to CD version,they're both produce by Bod Ludwig.Vinyl blow the CD away.judge it for yourself.

[MtnHam]

A Zombie thread- indeed, and I will add to it!

In the early days of CD's, I became a convert. The reason being, inspite of my 25 year vinyl history and large collection, my TT/etc wasn't that great, and CD's sounded better. Later I woke up and upgraded my kit, and realized LP's could offer more.

Today, my analogue and digital gear is near as good as it gets. I appreciate both for different reasons. Both can be great, but vinyl still usually offers more. I truly treasure my 3500 LP collection, and will never give it up. There are aspects of digital I love and cherish.
Additionally, I love the ability to explore the CD's offered at my public library, and I am continously discovering fantastic new recordings, many of which I seek out to purchase. I also love buying used (and sometimes new) LP's, often finding $1 treasures!

A hoax? NO WAY!!

[a.wayne]

+10...

I cant understand the constant back and forth over this , after all its not like they are mutually exclusive , one can enjoy both ..

[THROWBACK]

Both sides of the discussion have been presented cogently, sometimes passionately, even brilliantly. But we may be in the realm of the undefinable (or unmeasurable).

I attend many classical concerts--solo, chamber and  symphony, and I play a Steinway B at home. When I ease into my Lazy-Boy for a listening session alone or with friends I naturally want to recreate what I have heard live. I have excellent analog and digital front ends and an overall system that, I blush to disclose, is first rate (both claims, eminently debatable, of course). But rarely do I find myself reaching for my digital source--whether redbook CD, SACD, stored computer files, or hi-rez downloads. When I do, I don't seem to listen very long. OTOH, I can listen to records for long stretches with genuine satisfaction and pleasure.

Is it just me? I don't think so.

I have the same experience at the homes of my friends. We do a "system hop" on occasion, spending 40 minutes at each place listening to all kinds of music before moving on.  Some of the music we are presented is from digital sources; much more (and much more requested) is from vinyl.

So, just some vagrant observations to muddy the sound picture even more. I don't believe that those of us who still prefer vinyl are necessarily confused, obstinate or deranged (well, maybe we are, but just not about that). Something is going on that we vinyl-lovers definitely hear but cannot describe in engineering terms. We are forced to use terms like, "more musical," "has a greater sense of ease," "less clinical-sounding,” etc. Not very helpful to the technical community. Sigh! Someday, perhaps we'll all figure it out together.

Until then, y'all have a merry, musical Christmas.

[jimtranr]

Up until about a month ago, well-recorded, quality-pressed analog-mastered vinyl (note all the qualifiers) had been my preferred medium due to a perceived better sense of organic flow in the classical, jazz, film score, choral, and vocal-standard program that's typical listening fare here, with hi-rez digital that meets the aforementioned production-value criteria sometimes running a close second. Now, with the acquisition of a restored 1970's-vintage analog reel-to-reel deck and some decently-produced prerecorded tapes, vinyl has been nudged to second place, with the "best" digital still just in the money at "show."

That said, it seems to me that, given all the variables that apply in the recording-production and playback chains, to say nothing of individual preference, what's "superior" is to a greater or lesser degree a matter of perception seasoned (or conditioned?) by what one listens to and listens for (as well as listens on). That subjective aspect of this enterprise will drive some crazy, I know, but it's precisely what lies behind the "hoax" question and the spirited discussion it has generated here (as well as in countless other threads in who knows how many forums like this one).  We tell ourselves, after all, that "it's about the music."


     

[Guy 13]

Up until about a month ago, well-recorded, quality-pressed analog-mastered vinyl (note all the qualifiers) had been my preferred medium due to a perceived better sense of organic flow in the classical, jazz, film score, choral, and vocal-standard program that's typical listening fare here, with hi-rez digital that meets the aforementioned production-value criteria sometimes running a close second. Now, with the acquisition of a restored 1970's-vintage analog reel-to-reel deck and some decently-produced prerecorded tapes, vinyl has been nudged to second place, with the "best" digital still just in the money at "show."

That said, it seems to me that, given all the variables that apply in the recording-production and playback chains, to say nothing of individual preference, what's "superior" is to a greater or lesser degree a matter of perception seasoned (or conditioned?) by what one listens to and listens for (as well as listens on). That subjective aspect of this enterprise will drive some crazy, I know, but it's precisely what lies behind the "hoax" question and the spirited discussion it has generated here (as well as in countless other threads in who knows how many forums like this one).  We tell ourselves, after all, that "it's about the music."