[jsaliga]

..you have never experienced good vinyl with classical ...

Wrong.

[Freo-1]

where you are wrong!,i'll show you!,it doesnt have to do with hires-digital ,cd-digital is as good,what my point is..you have never experienced good vinyl with classical ...

Nonsense. 

First, Hi Res digital superior to CD across the board.  It is readily audible with the same recording comparing the CD format to SACD/DVD-A.

Second, there is no cheating the physics behind the deltas regarding the playback medium.  I've heard very expensive high end vinyl setups.  For rock/jazz, sounds very good.  For classical, too much noise, period.  No amount of spin will change the physics behind the media playback setups.  If you can tolerate the noise, more power to you.  I can't.

[Freo-1]

Wrong.

+1

During the early days of CD, I would agree that vinyl was much more enjoyable.  However, starting around the mid to late 2000's, digital has caught up, and in the case of hi-res, surpassed vinyl.  Neither is perfect, and each has it's strong and weak points.  Small jazz groups on vinyl and planar speakers can sound amazing. 

For serious classical, will stick with hi res digital.  There is only so much one can do to lower the noise floor with vinyl.  It matters more for some music than others. 

[G Georgopoulos]

First off, attack a position, not people.  That IS a loser, and is sure to get threads binned.

You need to back up the bombast with something approaching a valid set of factual data.  There is a lot of limitations with vinyl, from noise floors, wow/flutter, record wear, and on and on. 

If you prefer vinyl, OK.  Snarky bombast based on emotional reactions (and lacking in any facts) speaks fort itself.

good tube amps play well with vinyl!!!,yours play well with digital because they arent good...

[Scottdazzle]

  "As my tastes shifted towards classical, my tolerance for vinyl went steadily downhill.  I do not agree that vinyl is quiet with classical recordings at all. "
 

I urge you to listen to the Analogue Productions reissues of the classic RCA albums. Dead silent surfaces, superior dynamic range, and wonderful music reproduced to the highest quality standards.

[Freo-1]

good tube amps play well with vinyl!!!,yours play well with digital because they arent good...

Nonsense again. 

I have excellent tube amps.  I just don't like background noise with classical. 

As stated earlier, I do like vinyl with a lot of jazz recordings.

[Freo-1]

I urge you to listen to the Analogue Productions reissues of the classic RCA albums. Dead silent surfaces, superior dynamic range, and wonderful music reproduced to the highest quality standards.

I will be happy to give that a whirl.  There actually is a lot of classical hi res media that is currently available.

[twitch54]

Although I've never thought I had great hearing, my opinion of vinyl hasn't changed in 30 years (and I wear protection).

Glad to hear that you practice safe sex during your listening sessions …………...

How do vinylphiles tolerate all the surface noise and lack of dynamic range?  And why would you limit yourselves to such a small/hard to find/expensive range of recordings?

As has been said, for someone your age (I'm old too, my first 45 was 'Sweet Pea', Tommy Roe) you obviously have not had the pleasure of a well put together analog set up. As for hard to find pressings ……………. well, while you're getting your hearing checked have your eyesight check as well !

[jsaliga]

Nonsense. 

First, Hi Res digital superior to CD across the board.  It is readily audible with the same recording comparing the CD format to SACD/DVD-A.

Second, there is no cheating the physics behind the deltas regarding the playback medium.  I've heard very expensive high end vinyl setups.  For rock/jazz, sounds very good.  For classical, too much noise, period.  No amount of spin will change the physics behind the media playback setups.  If you can tolerate the noise, more power to you.  I can't.

Lol.  The problem with making broad, general statements on either side of the argument is that they often lack context.  Secondly, people buy what they prefer and then try to argue that what they prefer is better than what someone else prefers. 

Moreover, the debate always seems to be about the differences between vinyl and digital as a music storage medium.  The unfounded assumption often being. for example, that the digital version of ZZ Top's Tres Hombres and it vinyl cousin were created with the same care and high quality mastering.  The truth is that people making these sorts of comparisons are often comparing apples to oranges.  Not all differences can be linked to differences in the storage medium.

I personally am much more interested in how a recording was made, the microphones used during sessions, and then how the content was mixed and mastered, and by whom.

I have about $30,000 invested in audiophile vinyl, so don't think for a minute that I need to have my preferences validated by other people.  I really don't care what they might prefer.  I do care that everyone has a choice.  If someone chooses differently than you did it doesn't mean they have settled for inferior sound.  It just means that what is important to them and how they judge quality is different.

--Jerome

[Freo-1]

Lol.  The problem with making broad, general statements on either side of the argument is that they often lack context.  Secondly, people buy what they prefer and then try to argue that what they prefer is better than what someone else prefers. 

Moreover, the debate always seems to be about the differences between vinyl and digital as a music storage medium.  The unfounded assumption often being. for example, that the digital version of ZZ Top's Tres Hombres and it vinyl cousin were created with the same care and high quality mastering.  The truth is that people making these sorts of comparisons are often comparing apples to oranges.  Not all differences can be linked to differences in the storage medium.

I personally am much more interested in how a recording was made, the microphones used during sessions, and then how the content was mixed and mastered, and by whom.

I have about $30,000 invested in audiophile vinyl, so don't think for a minute that I need to have my preferences validated by other people.  I really don't care what they might prefer.  I do care that everyone has a choice.  If someone chooses differently than you did it doesn't mean they have settled for inferior sound.  It just means that what is important to them and how they judge quality is different.

--Jerome

Well stated (especially the last paragraph).

[jsaliga]

No one is protected from differing opinions they don't fully agree with.

While I generally agree with this I also believe that neo has a valid point.  I didn't really know what got all of this started but when I went back and read the first post -- well, I can understand how it might rub some vinylphiles the wrong way.

This topic, here in the vinyl circle about vinyl's superiority being hoax has flame bait written all over it and frankly I think it is bad form.  I am not saying that the subject should be taboo on AC, but there is probably a more neutral circle for it.  It would be no different than a bunch of Hitchcock haters descending on an Alfred Hitchcock form and posting how much they dislike him as director and hate his films.  I would say that they are entitled to their opinion, but at the same time I would think they could do with some basic manners and respect for others.

It's one of the reasons I don't post on AC nearly as much as I used to.  There is always someone around here who wants to kick up some dirt, usually at the expense of others.  And I'm getting too darned old for that nonsense.

Cheers.

--Jerome

[Freo-1]

  I am not saying that the subject should be taboo on AC, but there is probably a more neutral circle for it.  It would be no different than a bunch of Hitchcock haters descending on an Alfred Hitchcock form and posting how much they dislike him as director and hate his films.  I would say that they are entitled to their opinion, but at the same time I would think they could do with some basic manners and respect for others.

It's one of the reasons I don't post on AC nearly as much as I used to.  There is always someone around here who wants to kick up some dirt, usually at the expense of others.  And I'm getting too darned old for that nonsense.

Cheers.

--Jerome

I think you raise a valid point.   I do think posters can disagree strongly about one another's positions without getting personal.  The vinyl vs. digital argument is not going away, and there will always be different camps. 

The primary point I was making was that (for me), once I switched to primarily classical, it was around the same time that digital really took some big steps forward.  I found digital to be the better medium for that type of music.  Believe me, I get why people who listen to jazz/rock would prefer vinyl.

 I found some studies where evaluations were conducted regarding which format was preferred for a given type of music.  The studies reveled that for classical, digital was the preferred medium.  For rock, analog was the preferred medium.  For country, no real preference.

As long as discussions don't get to personal attacks, I'm good with differing opinions. 

[jsaliga]

The primary point I was making was that (for me), once I switched to primarily classical, it was around the same time that digital really took some big steps forward.  I found digital to be the better medium for that type of music.  Believe me, I get why people who listen to jazz/rock would prefer vinyl.  I found some studies where evaluations were conducted regarding which format was preferred for a given type of music.  The studies reveled that for classical, digital was the preferred medium.  For rock, analog was the preferred medium.  For country, no real preference.

I get what you're saying.  But studies conducted by people who aren't me listening to music in my room, on my equipment, mean absolutely nothing to me.  We are bumping into that context thing that I mentioned earlier.  Taken on its own what does your statement really say?  What does it actually mean?  Does popularity imply empirical proof of superiority?  Is such a thing provable?  I personally don't care if four out of five dentists recommend Trident gum...I hate gum!!   

--Jerome

[S Clark]

It is really simple.  If you think vinyl sucks, don't buy it. 

As to those of that enjoy vinyl, we have come to a different decision.
My digital rig is actually very nice.  It plays beautifully- perhaps better than my vinyl... and I seldom listen to it.  That's my choice and unlikely to change because an AC member preaches superiority of one over the other. 

As far as claiming that classical doesn't lend itself to vinyl, my thoughts are something like "Hmmm, that's interesting, but not my experience."

[Freo-1]

 
I don't know what college "safe space" is, but I don't like the sound of it, or political correctness either. 
Have you no sense of propriety?  Do people go on the hi-res circle (or whatever it's called) and talk about how digital sucks?  I would guess not. 

 Why don't you read the article and I'll tell you why the author is wrong.
neo

First, kindly knock off the indignation.  I don't like PC either.   Also, I would not get very worked up is someone sledged digital in the hi res forum.  As long as they don't attack people, who bloody cares??

I actually did read the article before posting.  I re-read the article, and I don't see all the indignation.  It does cost big bucks to get really good sound from vinyl.  I know, I have spent it in the past, and have enjoyed a lot of rock/jazz records with it.  Some of the posts afterwards, OK, I see the point.  My whole point was that it simply does not work for me with classical.  Period.   

I think Jerome's point about perhaps posting this in a different forum would have been better.  There really is not a good general forum to post items here. 

So, point out where the article is off base. 

[Freo-1]

It is really simple.  If you think vinyl sucks, don't buy it. 

As to those of that enjoy vinyl, we have come to a different decision.
My digital rig is actually very nice.  It plays beautifully- perhaps better than my vinyl... and I seldom listen to it.  That's my choice and unlikely to change because an AC member preaches superiority of one over the other. 

As far as claiming that classical doesn't lend itself to vinyl, my thoughts are something like "Hmmm, that's interesting, but not my experience."

And that, my friend, is fair enough.

[G Georgopoulos]

Freo,it's your tube amp,buy a better tube amp!...to enjoy vinyl!...

[Freo-1]

Freo,it's your tube amp,buy a better tube amp!...to enjoy vinyl!...

I already have two of them.  I would have to change my musical taste to enjoy vinyl again.

[Freo-1]

I already have two excellent sets of them.  I would have to change my musical taste to enjoy vinyl again.

[G Georgopoulos]

I already have two of them.  I would have to change my musical taste to enjoy vinyl again.